Are we going to lose Wilfork in his prime?

[Rob0729]

I dont agree with your assessment of the NT's value in our system.
The NT is responsible for 2 gaps. Thats it, and they rarely get a pass rush either.
They are no more critical than any other DL, with one big exception:
If the NT is AWFUL you create cutback lanes on every running play. A NT getting blown off the ball is a severe, perhaps as severe as you can have, problem. But you do not need exceptional play at that spot.

Having a NT who can hold up at the los and make a play now and then is very important, having one that does more than that is not nearly as important as commonly believed. IMO, of course.

If we assume Wilfork is a dominant NT (which I would agree with) then to say that NT is the most important position on the defense, would infer that our defense has been most dominant since Wilfork arrived, and has gooten more dominant as his play improved, and that is aboslutely incorrect.

I think Belichick would disagree. The lack of a NT was the reason the Pats didn't go to the 3-4 as a base until 2003 here. It may or may not be more important than any other position on the line (which I feel it is more important). It is clearly the hardest to fill. Guys who weigh 320 plus who are agile, durable, and have good stamina don't grow on trees.

 

[slash83]

Wilfork isn't going anywhere I personally don't think there's a player on the defense that bb respects and appreciates more then vince.

 

[Synovia]

If we assume Wilfork is a dominant NT (which I would agree with) then to say that NT is the most important position on the defense, would infer that our defense has been most dominant since Wilfork arrived, and has gooten more dominant as his play improved, and that is aboslutely incorrect.

I really suggest you take a logic class. Seriously. Absolutely none of that flows.

 

[miDeuce]

Wilfork isn't going anywhere. Seymour may be entering his last year as a Patriot, but Wilfork is clear not. The Pats may not even be worried about franchising Wilfork two years in a row if neccessary. The NT in the 3-4 is the most important position of defense. When you have a dominant NT who is durable and doesn't wear down (two issues with many NTs), you do what you can to keep them.

This article backs you up...

"And you build it from the inside out," Collier said. "The nose tackle and the inside linebackers, those are three guys that are very important. But when you go through it, the nose tackle is probably the single-most important guy.

"He has to hold it all together and make it so the guards can't get out on the inside linebackers. Let me put it this way - the nose tackle can make the inside linebackers look pretty good, and if your inside linebackers look pretty good, you're going to play pretty good defense."

 

[BradyBranch39]

It may cost more, you may lose a guy, but players also tend to play better as the contracts come closer to ending. If he plays it out this year and we Franchise him next year that's two more years of him playing in contract years. There's plenty of time.

Regarding his comment about the cost, the Patriots have extended guys like Warren and Koppen so while he's right that it costs more later, he's clearly not willing to take a discount or he would be extended now. It takes two to tango and from appearances he wants to be extended without taking a discount; there's a risk for the Patriots extending him if he suffers a major injury.

I think we get him once Cassel is off the books.

 

[mgteich]

1) I agree that a NT is the heart of a Belichick 3-4 2-gap defense.
2) Wilfork is going nowhere for at least 3 years, via extension or two franchise tags if necessary.
3) Once Cassel goes, monies will be freed up. Then it will be time to talk of possible extensions. The list of potential extensions is somewhat long: Wilfork, Seymour, Mankins, Kaczur, Hobbs, Faulk.
4) In addition, since there is likely a cap savings, two extensions could be worked even before Cassel leaves: Green and Vrabel.
5) My bet is that they will work it out, but I'm not sure that it will happen for awhile. I fear that Seymour would not be a happy camper if Wilfork was extended at money that wasn't offered to him.

 

[Water Boy]

After all if Asante was ungrateful and sold out for more $$, weren't the Patriots ungrateful and sold out for not paying him more $$? .

The reason Asante went to the Eagles is that he wanted a chance to play for a Super Bowl contender. That was what he stated at his press conference - he didn't mention anything about money.

 

[mgteich]

Are you being funny on purpose?

Asante could have played for the patriots. Weren't we a Super Bowl contender?

The reason Asante went to the Eagles is that he wanted a chance to play for a Super Bowl contender. That was what he stated at his press conference - he didn't mention anything about money.

 

[PatsChamp88]

No way hes going anywhere...

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I think Belichick would disagree. The lack of a NT was the reason the Pats didn't go to the 3-4 as a base until 2003 here. It may or may not be more important than any other position on the line (which I feel it is more important). It is clearly the hardest to fill. Guys who weigh 320 plus who are agile, durable, and have good stamina don't grow on trees.

errr.......the pats went 3-4 since the first moment BB got here

 

[Brettlax3434]

errr.......the pats went 3-4 since the first moment BB got here

haha i feel you

 

[Fencer]

I think Belichick would disagree. The lack of a NT was the reason the Pats didn't go to the 3-4 as a base until 2003 here. It may or may not be more important than any other position on the line (which I feel it is more important). It is clearly the hardest to fill. Guys who weigh 320 plus who are agile, durable, and have good stamina don't grow on trees.

Actually, the reason for periodic switches to the 4-3 seemed to have more to do with LB issues than anything else. Seymour started out at NT, as have pretty much all the current DEs, so except for the Steve Martin year there was rarely a catastrophic lack of talent at the position.

 

[Fencer]

If we assume Wilfork is a dominant NT (which I would agree with) then to say that NT is the most important position on the defense, would infer that our defense has been most dominant since Wilfork arrived, and has gooten more dominant as his play improved, and that is aboslutely incorrect.

Um, not really. Saying it's the most important position -- which I agree with at least for non-passing downs -- merely implies (not infers) that he's significantly more than 1/11th of the defense.

Honestly, I'm not even sure that's true overall, given that Wilfork usually plays a lot fewer snaps than some other top starters.

 

[RayClay]

errr.......the pats went 3-4 since the first moment BB got here

They switched to a 4-3 in 2001 With Pleasant and Hamilton at end and Seymour and Brandon Mitchell at end.

Don't know when they switched back for good. They have Seymour listed at tackle in '02 and the immortal Steve Martin, who I believe played some nose but just sucked, basically.

In '03 they were determined to go 3-4 for sure. That was when Lyle or Jarvis or Klecko were going to do it with "technique".

Soon they decided to get a veteran with technique and a 400 lb. payload.

 

[italian pat patriot]

i simply don't think so

but now it is too early to make any kind of deal with him

the Pats , imho, will not 'loose' a key player like him in a 3-4 defense

let's also see in the next future what will happens with Cassel situation (after that we should know more)

 

[DocE]

I love Wilfork, he's one of my favorite Patriots, and hope he's re-signed. That said I resent the media (mostly Mike Reiss) leading the Wilfork campaign for a new deal when he has a year left on his contract.

In my mind, the question should be: What can we do to improve the defense in 2009?

Until that question is answered, I don't see why a player who is a free agent after 2009 should be such a priority. Absolute worst case scenario is that the Patriots have to Franchise Tag Wilfork after 2009, so I see a two year window to get a deal done before they have to come to terms on a long term deal.

I'd love to see the media focus on how we fix the pass defense that allowed the 2nd most passing TD's in the NFL, the putrid 3rd down defense, and the atrocious red zone defense. Re-signing a current player who's not even a free agent yet doesn't address the immediate concerns of this franchise.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

They switched to a 4-3 in 2001 With Pleasant and Hamilton at end and Seymour and Brandon Mitchell at end.

Don't know when they switched back for good. They have Seymour listed at tackle in '02 and the immortal Steve Martin, who I believe played some nose but just sucked, basically.

In '03 they were determined to go 3-4 for sure. That was when Lyle or Jarvis or Klecko were going to do it with "technique".

Soon they decided to get a veteran with technique and a 400 lb. payload.

they played some 4-3 with mcginest as the 4th in the 4.......both mcginest and bruschi struggled as 3-4 LB's (phifer and vrabel were the only ones who seemed to know what was going on at the time) so mcginest spent much more time with his hand on the ground, but by later in the season, the regular rotation had seymour as the NT with pleasant and hamilton as the ends........the teams successes later in the season had to do with the fact that the 3-4 started to work well........in 2002, they were committed to move seymour to DE and had to deal with a poor rushing defense due to weakness in the nose........in 2003, they drafted warren with the intent of making him a nose, but he struggled early, so the pats got ted washington.......they still tried to put warren at NT at times during the season, but it was evident his success was going to come at DE........the thing about the 2004 draft was that the pats weren't expecting to land wilfork and weren't trying to move up to get him the way they were for warren.......he fell to them (I was envisioning steven jackson which would not have stunk but still doesn't touch wilfork)

the bottom line is that I agree that wilfork needs to be retained .... as well as seymour.......

 

[RayClay]

they played some 4-3 with mcginest as the 4th in the 4.......both mcginest and bruschi struggled as 3-4 LB's (phifer and vrabel were the only ones who seemed to know what was going on at the time) so mcginest spent much more time with his hand on the ground, but by later in the season, the regular rotation had seymour as the NT with pleasant and hamilton as the ends........the teams successes later in the season had to do with the fact that the 3-4 started to work well........in 2002, they were committed to move seymour to DE and had to deal with a poor rushing defense due to weakness in the nose........in 2003, they drafted warren with the intent of making him a nose, but he struggled early, so the pats got ted washington.......they still tried to put warren at NT at times during the season, but it was evident his success was going to come at DE........the thing about the 2004 draft was that the pats weren't expecting to land wilfork and weren't trying to move up to get him the way they were for warren.......he fell to them (I was envisioning steven jackson which would not have stunk but still doesn't touch wilfork)

the bottom line is that I agree that wilfork needs to be retained .... as well as seymour.......

Thry always used McGinest to switch mid-play to confuse the offense. They simply had better 4-3 personnel in 2001 and never got the personnel to play 3-4 most of the time until 2003.

They still played both, but they wanted to play 3-4, but had better personnel for 4-3. I'm not saying we really disagree.

Be that as it may, you need a big athletic NT to play 3-4 well and there aren't as many available as teams who would like to play that defense.

NT is the epitome of the "big athletic" guy BB talks about when discussing first round quality talent. There aren't that many on the planet.

 

[BradyManny]

I didn't see this being discussed, but I see the rumblings of tourble in Vince-town. He's a stand-up guy, and other than battering the odd QB () I don't think he'll cause a stink, but I think he may price himself outta here if we don't get him extended asap.

As much as we talk about upgrading this and that on D, I think it starts with the line and while I can go either way on a guy like Seymour (yeah-yeah, call me names), I think VW is a guy who needs to stay here for at least another set of four.

This reads too much like the Asante thing, though I think Vince might be in a different character class.

Vince Wilfork in focus - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com



What are you guys thinking about this one? Is he the most important contract extension in view?

The franchise tag is reasonable for DTs at this time, not sure what it'll be next year, but that is certainly a way to go. So we can at the very least control him for 2 more years beyond this.

That might not be a bad route to go. If the Pats manage to get a 2010 1st out of Cassel or any other deal, they might be able to get Mount Cody, and if what Ochmed and some others say about Cody is true, then he might be a long term upgrade over Wilfork (seems hard to imagine, but could be true), at a smaller price. Personally, I say let's extend Wilfork and then figure it out. We can still get Cody if opportunity presents itself.

 

[BelizePats]

I love Big Vince but I don't like this extension business coming out in the press.
He needs to get extended. There is no doubt about it!!!!!
But, with Cassel tying up a huge chunk of change until he is traded, there is no point in the Pats trying to do anything in terms of extanding him.
Vince needs to shut his mouth and really analyze the situation. Speaking in the press about your contract status, when you still have a year on your deal should be left to the likes of TO and Ocho Cinco
The team needs to pick up the phone and explain it to Vince if he and his agent can't read the tea leaves. If the front office has not done this, (pick up the phone and call him) they have made a mistake by not doing so.
I don't want to hear about bringing in a sexy new free agent for the D. I want our best paid first! And that means a new deal for Vince.
This needs to get done and the team needs to tell him it will get done as soon as the Cassel situation has been settled.