Larry English - Patriot material?

[VJCPatriot]

He weighed in at 6'2 254 lbs at the Senior Bowl. Larry English also won the MVP of the MAC. So his college production is there (31.5 career sacks).

English had a standout performance in the Senior Bowl and is now considered variably between the 3rd and 4th best linebacker in the draft and he realistically could be there when the Pats select at #23.

"Kiper has English as his third best linebacker in the draft. Scout.com has him listed as the fourth-best linebacker."

According to one writer he is in the Demarcus Ware mold as a passrusher. I'm not sure why Atlanta wouldn't want Demarcus Ware... but apparently it's because he's suited for the 3-4!

"Here's all you need to know about him and why he's not a suitable player for what Atlanta does. He played defensive end in college. He's projected as an end/outside linebacker in the pros. They call that a "pass-rush specialist," in the vein of players like Dallas' DeMarcus Ware, and it's typically a position better utilized in a 3-4 scheme."

Atlanta Falcons Examiner: Mel Kiper's mock draft selects Larry English for Atlanta Falcons

Here are the mandatory highlight clips:

YouTube - NIU DE Larry English Career Highlight Video (Part 1)

YouTube - NIU DE Larry English Career Highlight Video (Part 2)

Here are some scouting reports:

Scout.com: Larry English Profile

Larry English*|*Northern Illinois,*OLB*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft Prospects - Larry English Profile

Thoughts on Larry English and how you view him in relation to other OLB prospects for the Pats? IE Cushing, Sintim, Maybin etc.

 

[dryheat44]

He's a nice linebacker, he'll provide some youth at the position, but he's not the pass-rushing superstar that we yearn for. The comparisons to Ware are beyond absurd. Wait for the combine...I have a feeling that we're going to see a lack of explosion in his 10 and 20 yard splits and his shuttle runs. A slow first step, and NFL tackles are going to lock you out and ride you 10 yards downfield.

I think he's more Tully Banta-Cain than Mike Vrabel. Personally, I think he's a mid-round guy. I wouldn't take him before the third.

 

[BradyManny]

I think he's a former basketball player as well, if I'm not mistaken - I'd like to know which position he played, but in general, it always makes me feel good about his athleticism, [particularly pertaining to coverage].

 

[VJCPatriot]

Wow did he run over your dog or something? LOL. Your assessment of English differs a lot from most of the scouting reports out there which have him now rated as a 1st round prospect. English also practiced impressively at the senior bowl, being nearly unblockable by the tackles he went up against and also performed well on game day. How many games of English have you watched to form your opinion and did you get to view his performance during the Senior Bowl?

From what I've seen of his clips, English looks like he has very good gameday speed to get the QB and also on weakside pursuit. His tackles are textbook wrapup which I like to see in a linebacker. I understand that these are culled from highlights, but it's always good to see the potential in a LB to be good against the run as well as the pass. I'll also be interested to see how English runs at the combine, particularly his splits. He might 'only' run a 4.6-4.7 40 but if he displays a fast burst in his split times, that's enough to convince me he has the athleticism to get after the QB.

 

[patchick]

He's a nice linebacker, he'll provide some youth at the position, but he's not the pass-rushing superstar that we yearn for. The comparisons to Ware are beyond absurd. Wait for the combine...I have a feeling that we're going to see a lack of explosion in his 10 and 20 yard splits and his shuttle runs.

Totally agree on the Ware comparisons -- I like English, he looks strong and aggressive, but he's simply not the kind of rare athlete Ware is. And for good measure, Ware is 2 inches taller with very long arms. I don't see the resemblance at all.

EDIT: How about a LaMarr Woodley comparison instead?

 

[mayoclinic]

Totally agree on the Ware comparisons -- I like English, he looks strong and aggressive, but he's simply not the kind of rare athlete Ware is. And for good measure, Ware is 2 inches taller with very long arms. I don't see the resemblance at all.

EDIT: How about a LaMarr Woodley comparison instead?

Woodley seems physically a good deal stouter. He's more like 6'2" 270#, I think. I'd be thrilled if English turned out to be like Woodley, and agree that comparing him to Ware is ridiculous. It seems like every hybrid prospect who comes out gets compared to Ware or Merriman.

I haven't seen enough of English to make up my mind about him yet. He doesn't seem like first round material to me, though I would have guessed that he's a legitimate 2nd rounder rather than a 3rd at this point. I could see him conceivably going late 1st, but I think we can get more value for #23.

 

[dryheat44]

Wow did he run over your dog or something? LOL. Your assessment of English differs a lot from most of the scouting reports out there which have him now rated as a 1st round prospect. English also practiced impressively at the senior bowl, being nearly unblockable by the tackles he went up against and also performed well on game day. How many games of English have you watched to form your opinion and did you get to view his performance during the Senior Bowl?

From what I've seen of his clips, English looks like he has very good gameday speed to get the QB and also on weakside pursuit. His tackles are textbook wrapup which I like to see in a linebacker. I understand that these are culled from highlights, but it's always good to see the potential in a LB to be good against the run as well as the pass. I'll also be interested to see how English runs at the combine, particularly his splits. He might 'only' run a 4.6-4.7 40 but if he displays a fast burst in his split times, that's enough to convince me he has the athleticism to get after the QB.

I thought he disappointed at the Senior Bowl. He didn't look very quick off the snap, and he ran himself out of plays more than a couple of times trying to get the passer. I also harbor serious doubts of his ability to set the edge.

To answer your questions, I don't have a dog, and I didn't watch any Northern Illinois games this season.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think he's a former basketball player as well, if I'm not mistaken - I'd like to know which position he played, but in general, it always makes me feel good about his athleticism, [particularly pertaining to coverage].

You have him confused with Barwin.

As to the English question: He's no Ware, in time he could be a Vrabel (but VJC doesn't belive in transition time so we'll skip that part), I've not seen him drop into coverage, but one of the Jays around here reportedly has and speaks glowingly of him. English has all the basic tools to convert to OLB (see, no transition needed ), but he'd still need at least two years to get there. I have him with a second round grade, I don't believe he's a strong enough edge rusher to work into the first round and his MAC pedigree is going to cool things off a little unless he has a great Combine. As to where he relates to other Day One OLB prospects (for NE):

(skipping Ev Brown and Orakpo who are going too high - unless Cassel pays off)

1. Sintim
2. Barwin
3. Matthews (tie) - Matthews has a slight early edge because he's played some 3-4, but over time both level out.
3. English (tie)
5. Cushing
6. Maybin

 

[dryheat44]

Totally agree on the Ware comparisons -- I like English, he looks strong and aggressive, but he's simply not the kind of rare athlete Ware is. And for good measure, Ware is 2 inches taller with very long arms. I don't see the resemblance at all.

EDIT: How about a LaMarr Woodley comparison instead?

I don't know...Woodley performed well for two years against top competition. I think TBC is the more apt comparison...a guy who can be a situational pass rusher, but ask him to be more and you might be in trouble.

Jason Jones out of Eastern Michigan went fifty-somethingth overall last year. He was a bit heavier, 275 I think, but a quickly rising pass rusher out of the same type of school. That's probably a good starting point for slotting English.

 

[dryheat44]

(skipping Ev Brown and Orakpo who are going too high - unless Cassel pays off)

1. Sintim
2. Barwin
3. Matthews (tie) - Matthews has a slight early edge because he's played some 3-4, but over time both level out.
3. English (tie)
5. Cushing
6. Maybin

That looks about right, although I might have Kruger and Mike Johnson in the mix. But I think there's a sizeable gap from Sintim to Barwin, and another one from Barwin to everybody else. I have Matthews slotted at ILB.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I don't know...Woodley performed well for two years against top competition. I think TBC is the more apt comparison...a guy who can be a situational pass rusher, but ask him to be more and you might be in trouble.

Jason Jones out of Eastern Michigan went fifty-somethingth overall last year. He was a bit heavier, 275 I think, but a quickly rising pass rusher out of the same type of school. That's probably a good starting point for slotting English.

Jones had 50 TFL and 14 sacks for his career. English has 63 TFL and 31.5 sacks for his. He's apparently risen above the Jones benchmark.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

That looks about right, although I might have Kruger and Mike Johnson in the mix. But I think there's a sizeable gap from Sintim to Barwin, and another one from Barwin to everybody else. I have Matthews slotted at ILB.

I've yet to watch my recording of the Utah/Alabama game to see how Kruger moves, I note NFL Draft Scout compares him to Patrick Kerney, but in what way they don't say. Michael Johnson doesn't carry a Day One grade for me.

 

[Seneschal2]

English and Clay Matthews have to be considered among the recent risers so far. Both made Todd McShay's latest mock at #24 and #23 respectively.

The final stage for risers and sliders will come after the Combine and Pro Days. We'll see, as both may slide out of round one, making room for some of the workout wonders/speedsters. Happens every draft.

I like both players for the Pats -- just not at #23. Round two at the earliest seems acceptable, depending on their workouts.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

I thought English was the best pure OLB prospect at the Senior Bowl. That being said, I don't think there was one player in that game that was a "knock your socks off" type player and the best talent IMO looked like it was in the O-lines.

 

[jays52]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...241-strong-year-de-olb-page3.html#post1262030

I heart Larry English.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I've yet to watch my recording of the Utah/Alabama game to see how Kruger moves, I note NFL Draft Scout compares him to Patrick Kerney, but in what way they don't say. Michael Johnson doesn't carry a Day One grade for me.

Okay, first half analysis of the Sugar Bowl Tide Roll:

-- Kruger hasn't shown me Day One value, but he's a solid mid-round value who is playing some 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE as Utah switches their formations. He is dropping into zone coverage, and he's doing a decent job of trying to set the edge and playing his assignment, but he's also working against second and third string LTs. Based on the one half, he came out at least a year too early.
-- The kid who is catching my eye is DL Greg Newman. He's playing inside as a 3-4 NT, 4-3 NT, or 4-3 3-tech and he's making Caldwell and his two Guards work their tails off. They have to account for him and are using combo blocks and straight-up double-teams to manage him. He's listed as 6'4" 260, but looks burlier than Kruger who's listed at 6'5" 265. I'll be watching for this kid's Pro-Day numbers, he could be a nice UDFA signing from the Mike Wright template.
-- For the Sean Smith fans: In one half of football he's not looking like Asa-Oakland-whatsit, but he could be a decent Free Safety.
-- For next season, DE/OLB Koa Misi, he's being more disruptive than Kruger.
-- That rookie WR of 'bama's, Julio Jones - that kid is impressive, he needs to hit the juggs harder and work on his concentration, but he looks good.

 

[stinkypete]

English looks like a nice prospect. If we got him early in the 2nd round (perhaps in a Cassel deal?) I'd feel pretty good about it. I see no way the Pats take him at #23. Too small a school, too many questions for a first rounder.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Okay, first half analysis of the Sugar Bowl Tide Roll:

-- Kruger hasn't shown me Day One value, but he's a solid mid-round value who is playing some 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE as Utah switches their formations. He is dropping into zone coverage, and he's doing a decent job of trying to set the edge and playing his assignment, but he's also working against second and third string LTs. Based on the one half, he came out at least a year too early.
-- The kid who is catching my eye is DL Greg Newman. He's playing inside as a 3-4 NT, 4-3 NT, or 4-3 3-tech and he's making Caldwell and his two Guards work their tails off. They have to account for him and are using combo blocks and straight-up double-teams to manage him. He's listed as 6'4" 260, but looks burlier than Kruger who's listed at 6'5" 265. I'll be watching for this kid's Pro-Day numbers, he could be a nice UDFA signing from the Mike Wright template.
-- For the Sean Smith fans: In one half of football he's not looking like Asa-Oakland-whatsit, but he could be a decent Free Safety.
-- For next season, DE/OLB Koa Misi, he's being more disruptive than Kruger.
-- That rookie WR of 'bama's, Julio Jones - that kid is impressive, he needs to hit the juggs harder and work on his concentration, but he looks good.

Misi is the player that stood out to me in that Bama game. He looked like he might be able to play ILB in a 3-4 but there wasn't much to see of him playing in space. I think he's made to play DE for the Colts if he can't play LB. Good motor, strong and tough. He's a smart player and wanted to get his degree I guess.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Misi is the player that stood out to me in that Bama game. He looked like he might be able to play ILB in a 3-4 but there wasn't much to see of him playing in space. I think he's made to play DE for the Colts if he can't play LB. Good motor, strong and tough. He's a smart player and wanted to get his degree I guess.

John Parker Wilson's first interception seemed to have an assist from Koa Misi, he dropped into a shallow zone and seemed to be in the throwing lane forcing JPW to try and loft the ball over him resulting in overthrowing everybody but the Safety standing there with his mouth open. I'll be watching for him next season.

 

[ayjackson]

Could English have some inside/outside versatility? Could provide some interior pass rush? Three-down SILB?