The Patriots won't get an opportunity to "trade" Cassel

[Patsrock]

I don't think the Jets can afford to hire even a new ballboy. But the Bucs, the Texans, the Vikes, the Titans, the Lions (Dallas' pick), maybe the Bears, the Eagles ........

If Detroit signs Cassel, wouldn't they have to give up their own picks?

 

[Spiral]

The key here is that the team needs to pounce on Cassel PRIOR to him signing his tag tender BEFORE he becomes a contracted player to and thus, under control of, the Pats.

As I understand it, Cassel is still under contract to the Patriots until the end of the league year. The time period for franchise player designation ends before the league year. Whether or not he's franchised, he will be under the Patriots' "control" until the beginning of the league year (March 2, I believe). If and when he is franchised, the Patriots would receive compensation if he's signed by another team, which cannot happen until the beginning of the league year unless the Patriots allow permission, something they likely wouldn't do unless a sign/trade arrangement has been worked out.

 

[Holy Diver]

bottom lines....

Kraft holds all the cards.

Cassel will be a millionaire.

The Patriots will get some high draft picks.

 

[maverick4]

What is interesting is that in this scenario, Cassel will get a bigger payday, and the Pats will get more high picks, than the trade scenario. A win-win for us.

 

[Fencer]

Clearly, your analysis proves that the upper bound on the value the Pats receive for Cassell is two first-round picks.

It further suggests that Cassell has a lot of control over where he ends up. After all, if he isn't willing to sign a long-term deal with a team, it would take an odd and risky series of events for him to wind up there.

I agree on both counts.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

What are the tampering rules?

If I'm not mistaken, as soon as a team offers a franchise tender, the player is free to negotiate with other teams until he signs the tender.

The Jets have no money to deal with. The Panthers are below the cap, but not by much and have two huge UFA in Gross and Peppers. Although, I read somewhere that cutting Delhomne would save them 6 million in cap space. But I think it would be to tight for them. And the Lions, KC and SF all have draft picks to high in rnd 1 and are unlikely to improve a great deal next season. Resulting in their 2010 pick being in the top 10. I cant see a team giving up 2 top 10 picks for Cassel.

As a not-so-minor point--whatever team signs Cassel would need to have $14M in cap space at the time they sign him (although they would be able to restructure contracts to make it work).[/QUOTE]

If Detroit signs Cassel, wouldn't they have to give up their own picks?

Yes. You cannot use a lower pick than your own, but you can use a higher one (e.g., the Pats can use SD's pick for a second-round tender).

 

[maverick4]

As a not-so-minor point--whatever team signs Cassel would need to have $14M in cap space at the time they sign him (although they would be able to restructure contracts to make it work).

Well that really narrows down the possibilities then.

 

[BelichickFan]

As a not-so-minor point--whatever team signs Cassel would need to have $14M in cap space at the time they sign him (although they would be able to restructure contracts to make it work).

Well that really narrows down the possibilities then.

A lot of teams have a lot of cap space.

According to this :

Ask The Commish.com - Projected 2009 Salary Cap Figures

Only 10 teams have under $14M available and only 5 of those are way out of the range. Cap space, or lack thereof, isn't what it used to be.

 

[farn]

Quick question.......

With the possible exception of the Jets, would anyone care what team Cassel signed with if it brought back 2 first round picks?

I'll field it : don't care who gets him (for two #1s). Though I would say that if he went to an NFC team, I'd prefer that EVEN if it was for a #1 & #2 than to a division rival. Sure, we hate the Jets more... but how would it feel to go 1-1 vs Miami and lose out another tie-breaker with Cassel as QB (not that they need a QB, but in the spirit of the question) ?

 

[patchick]

The biggest restriction (to Cassel's agent) is relinquishing control of the situation over to the Pats. They do this the second they sign the tender and contract him to the Pats.

But Cassel has to agree to a deal in principle with his new team before a trade happens regardless. Nobody's going to fork over significant draft picks to have Cassel play under the one-year franchise contract. And he's free to negotiate, or not, with any team he wants.

So suppose Cassel is tagged, thus free to negotiate with any team, and he comes to terms with the team of his choice. Why on Earth would that team decide to fork over 2 firsts instead of approaching the Patriots to negotiate a lower level of compensation?

 

[Deus Irae]

A lot of teams have a lot of cap space.

According to this :

Ask The Commish.com - Projected 2009 Salary Cap Figures

Only 10 teams have under $14M available and only 5 of those are way out of the range. Cap space, or lack thereof, isn't what it used to be.

Not only that, but of those 10 teams, only 3 have any real likelihood of being interested in a QB (Seattle, St. Louis, Carolina), and they'd all get under if they just cut their current starting quarterbacks ($6 million saved for Delhomme, $14 milllion for Hasselbeck and $6.5 million for Bulger).

I'm not saying that other things, like the dead money created by such cuts, wouldn't prevent those teams from signing Cassel. I'm just pointing out an easy way for them to come up with enough money to make the deal even at full "franchise" value for Cassel.

 

[stevedogc]

I'd add:

Niners (Hill, O'Sullivan, Martin, Smith)
Texans (Rosenfels, Nall and Schaub)
Titans (36 yr old Collins, headcase Young)
Lions (Dallas' pick @ 20)
Eagles (McNabb?)

I cant see these teams giving up two first rounders. I can see some of them interested if its a trade situation. Where they may only have to give up 1 1st rounder or less.

Niners - Have the 10th overall. Cassel may help out, but its possible they could finish in the same area of next years draft. #10 and a #10-15 pick in 2010 is alot for a team that has more holes then just a QB. I could see them waiting to see if Cassel signs the tender and then offereing a 2nd rounder and a 2nd in 2010 or a conditional 1st in 2010 if they are successful with Cassel.

Texans - They have alot invested in Schaub. Money and picks. And he is not a bad QB. I cant see them ready to give up on him yet. Not for two 1st rounders at least

Titans - I think the only reason they would not do it is that they have a ton of money invested in Young. I agree he is a headcase and I think he will never be a good QB. But thats alot of money you put into an investment and getting nothing from. I can see then trying a lesser route like a more solid back up if Young cracks up.

Lions - They have so many holes that I cant see them thinking Cassel can come in right away and make a difference. And wouldnt they have to give up both their 1st rounders for this year which is #1 and #20? If so, thats alot for a team that is starting from the bottom.

Eagles - I can see them bringing McNabb back after the success he and the team had at the end of the season.

Just my opinions.

 

[PatOnTheArse]

A lot of teams have a lot of cap space.

According to this :

Ask The Commish.com - Projected 2009 Salary Cap Figures

Only 10 teams have under $14M available and only 5 of those are way out of the range. Cap space, or lack thereof, isn't what it used to be.

What is going to happen to the Jets? Are they going to have to make cuts?

 

[BelichickFan]

What is going to happen to the Jets? Are they going to have to make cuts?

They free up something like $12M with Favre retires. If he does.

 

[fgssand]

I cant see these teams giving up two first rounders. I can see some of them interested if its a trade situation. Where they may only have to give up 1 1st rounder or less.

Niners - Have the 10th overall. Cassel may help out, but its possible they could finish in the same area of next years draft. #10 and a #10-15 pick in 2010 is alot for a team that has more holes then just a QB. I could see them waiting to see if Cassel signs the tender and then offereing a 2nd rounder and a 2nd in 2010 or a conditional 1st in 2010 if they are successful with Cassel.

Texans - They have alot invested in Schaub. Money and picks. And he is not a bad QB. I cant see them ready to give up on him yet. Not for two 1st rounders at least

Titans - I think the only reason they would not do it is that they have a ton of money invested in Young. I agree he is a headcase and I think he will never be a good QB. But thats alot of money you put into an investment and getting nothing from. I can see then trying a lesser route like a more solid back up if Young cracks up.

Lions - They have so many holes that I cant see them thinking Cassel can come in right away and make a difference. And wouldnt they have to give up both their 1st rounders for this year which is #1 and #20? If so, thats alot for a team that is starting from the bottom.

Eagles - I can see them bringing McNabb back after the success he and the team had at the end of the season.

Just my opinions.

I can.....if any of the teams that are prepared to offer one #1 and say a 3 or even a #2, in the heat of losing out in a bidding war......will plunk down the two and get their QB.

A team MUST have a winning QB - there aren't a lot around that are available and can step right in and turn an offense around and have 10 solid years of play ahead of them.

As a matter of fact, there is only one of those and his initials are MC. All the other options are old guys and rookies........If I am the owner or GM looking to win I give the# 1's and take the QB.

Here are 10 more reasons if you don;t like mine...

Barstool Sports: 10 Reasons the Patriots Can, Should and WILL Get Two 1st Round Draft Picks for Matt Cassel

 

[BelichickFan]

So suppose Cassel is tagged, thus free to negotiate with any team, and he comes to terms with the team of his choice. Why on Earth would that team decide to fork over 2 firsts instead of approaching the Patriots to negotiate a lower level of compensation?

It depends what the market it. I don't expect to get two #1s. But if, say, Minnesota wants him and would offer a 1&3 but sees TB and KC as competition it's not impossible they could just sign him by paying more to eliminate the competition. They could say a playoff #1 this year and, likely, a lower #1 next year isn't that bad to solve their QB situation.

 

[farn]

I still find that two #1s is a lot to give up... even though there are examples this year of high picks moving (Dallas WR).

But here's a question I don't have an answer to : who was the last player to BE picked up in this manner (just signing the player and giving away two #1s) ? I can't recall any in recent memory. Teams have traded away tagged players, but... Anyone remember recent moves of the like ?

 

[Fencer]

I still find that two #1s is a lot to give up... even though there are examples this year of high picks moving (Dallas WR).

But here's a question I don't have an answer to : who was the last player to BE picked up in this manner (just signing the player and giving away two #1s) ? I can't recall any in recent memory. Teams have traded away tagged players, but... Anyone remember recent moves of the like ?

I can't think of anybody more recent than Joey Galloway, another Dallas WR.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

But Cassel has to agree to a deal in principle with his new team before a trade happens regardless. Nobody's going to fork over significant draft picks to have Cassel play under the one-year franchise contract. And he's free to negotiate, or not, with any team he wants.

So suppose Cassel is tagged, thus free to negotiate with any team, and he comes to terms with the team of his choice. Why on Earth would that team decide to fork over 2 firsts instead of approaching the Patriots to negotiate a lower level of compensation?

So they can insure retaining his services and circumvent the entire 'negotiation' or bidding war they believe could happen.

Having read this entire thread I think people are forgetting what the OP was trying to get at. As well as the differences between signing and trading for a franchised player.

(for example)
If the Vikes just have to have Cassell and he has been franchised
- they simply offer him a contract that is acceptable to him, Cassel signs the offer
- the Pats have a given period to match
-if the pats do not match the Vikes offer, per the CBA, the Pats recieve the next two Vikes 1st rounders. (this years and next years).
I do think that if Detroit wanted to do this it would mean both 1st rounders this year.


Trading for him will mean coming up with a contract offer for Cassell AND a package of picks (or players) worth less than the two 1st round picks.

The entire package will have to be acceptable to the Pats and Cassell. This is where the bidding war among teams (hopefully) could take place.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

I can.....if any of the teams that are prepared to offer one #1 and say a 3 or even a #2, in the heat of losing out in a bidding war......will plunk down the two and get their QB.

Exactly right