Brett Favre's decision and when he makes it may affect the Patriots

[Rob0729]

Favre had the Jets at 8-3 before he got hurt. Fans may forget that, or choose to ignore it in their zeal for attacking the guy, but most teams are smart enough to understand the significance. Unlike a lot of people here, I'd much rather the Jets get stuck with Clemens under center than see Favre return.

And the team was winning on defense. Even his 6 TD game was because the defense caused Warner to turn over the ball 5 times. You look at the games this year even before the last five games when he blames an injury for his poor play and you can only find three, maybe four games where he played well. Favre had a mediocre to average season and continued his ways of making costly mistakes.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Favre's hype outweighs his actual performances. He's far from a bad QB, it's just that he didn't get his nickname "Lord Favre" without reason

And he's proven to be eminently marketable,even more so that PManning (jmo tho).

His back-and-forth retiring drama's become a joke even among players,for ex. Rodney's comment and Warner's most recently. He dug that hole himself too,which is unfortunate for him. But regardless of all that, he's still a commodity.

 

[Deus Irae]

And the team was winning on defense. Even his 6 TD game was because the defense caused Warner to turn over the ball 5 times. You look at the games this year even before the last five games when he blames an injury for his poor play and you can only find three, maybe four games where he played well. Favre had a mediocre to average season and continued his ways of making costly mistakes.

Favre had 5 games with a rating over 100, including 3 games in a row, which included the Patriots and Titans, just before his injury, and another game with a rating above 90, over the course of 11 games. He had his team at 8-3, despite coming in late and having to work his way into everything. After hurting his arm, his numbers plummeted, and he had 5 straight games with a passer rating under 62.

If people would stop letting biases get in the way, it would help with analyzing the game.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

The original statement doesn't make sense. If Favre retires and decides to come back, the Jets own the rights to Favre. The only way the above could happen is if the Jets released Favre. If Favre comes out of retirement, the Jets can trade him to anyone they want or keep him.

IIRC part of the trade from GB to the Jets was to prevent any straw man transactions or hanky panky subsequent trades to prevent Brett from ending up in the NFC North so a provision was put in there that if he played for either Det, Minn or Chi in '08 or '09, the Jets owed the Packers 3 first rounders. That gave the Jets an incentive to keep him or trade to someone who would (if the Jets f.o. were smart) accept that provision on themselves if he ended up at one of those teams. If it's enforceable and actually in the contract, the Jets can't simply release him without putting their future drafts at risk...

 

[FirstAndGoal]

I wonder what Chad Pennington plans on doing next season?

As far as the Jets giving up 3 1st round picks, I don't think that is still part of the trade deal with the packers being that it is now year 2 of the deal, I could of course be wrong.

I would of thought that Brett would of had surgery to repair the detached muscle in his shoulder if he wanted to come back.

Even if it was, it is only the Vikings. You could trade him to any other team. It's a non-issue IMHO. The Vikings would be putting all their money on a lottery ticket.

 

[Gunnails]

IIRC part of the trade from GB to the Jets was to prevent any straw man transactions or hanky panky subsequent trades to prevent Brett from ending up in the NFC North so a provision was put in there that if he played for either Det, Minn or Chi in '08 or '09, the Jets owed the Packers 3 first rounders. That gave the Jets an incentive to keep him or trade to someone who would (if the Jets f.o. were smart) accept that provision on themselves if he ended up at one of those teams. If it's enforceable and actually in the contract, the Jets can't simply release him without putting their future drafts at risk...

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Link?

As far as I know the terms of the trade were not made public, all we can do is speculate. I speculate that the Jets can cut Favre without the loss of any draft picks.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

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Link?

As far as I know the terms of the trade were not made public, all we can do is speculate. I speculate that the Jets can cut Favre without the loss of any draft picks.

No one is saying that cutting Favre will immediately cost the JEST picks. What people are arguing is that the Packers--both knowing that Favre had requested "If I can't play for you, let me play against you", and not wanting to do so--designed the contract such that the JEST would take on the responsibility of making sure that didn't happen.

 

[Gunnails]

No one is saying that cutting Favre will immediately cost the JEST picks. What people are arguing is that the Packers--both knowing that Favre had requested "If I can't play for you, let me play against you", and not wanting to do so--designed the contract such that the JEST would take on the responsibility of making sure that didn't happen.

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I won't argue with that.

 

[Metaphors]

Favre had 5 games with a rating over 100, including 3 games in a row, which included the Patriots and Titans, just before his injury, and another game with a rating above 90, over the course of 11 games. He had his team at 8-3, despite coming in late and having to work his way into everything. After hurting his arm, his numbers plummeted, and he had 5 straight games with a passer rating under 62.

If people would stop letting biases get in the way, it would help with analyzing the game.

In the Jets' defense, who could have ever predicted that a 39 yo QB would have arm issues late in a season that would affect his performance?

Just because after he turned 35 and turned in back-to-back years of low 70 ratings, low TD, high int, career low YPA...and then followed that up with a single year of solid stats...who could have expected that he would throw up a low 80 rating, low TD, high int, low YPA year with the Jets?

And now who would ever have imagined that he would waffle on retirement, hold the Jets hostage and prevent them from moving forward with preparing for the 2009 season?

Some things just come out of nowhere without any warning or explanation...

 

[ScottieC]

IIRC part of the trade from GB to the Jets was to prevent any straw man transactions or hanky panky subsequent trades to prevent Brett from ending up in the NFC North so a provision was put in there that if he played for either Det, Minn or Chi in '08 or '09, the Jets owed the Packers 3 first rounders. That gave the Jets an incentive to keep him or trade to someone who would (if the Jets f.o. were smart) accept that provision on themselves if he ended up at one of those teams. If it's enforceable and actually in the contract, the Jets can't simply release him without putting their future drafts at risk...

No, They can release him - They just can't trade his sorry ass.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Like it or not folks,Favre is one of the reasons for NE to miss the playoffs and the division by moving his team down the field in overtime effortlessly against the Pats soft as silk secondary on that particular prime time game.

And not to mention another time when he could not beat the Dolphins in week 17

I think these two very reasons adds to the hate Pats fans have for this guy who is still a HOFer no matter how you look at his career.

 

[Rob0729]

Favre had 5 games with a rating over 100, including 3 games in a row, which included the Patriots and Titans, just before his injury, and another game with a rating above 90, over the course of 11 games. He had his team at 8-3, despite coming in late and having to work his way into everything. After hurting his arm, his numbers plummeted, and he had 5 straight games with a passer rating under 62.

If people would stop letting biases get in the way, it would help with analyzing the game.

QB rating is a bogus stat especially when you count all the passes that Favre threw right at defenders that were dropped. Favre could have easily increased his INT total by 5-10 INTs.

Farve had a 92.3 QB rating against San Deigo because he had a spectacular 4th quarter completing 14 of 17 passes for 2 TDs and no INTs. Granted, the game was out of reach for the Jets and the Chargers were playing a loose defense by that point (it was 38-14 at the end of the third quarter and the game ended with a 48-29 final). His first three quarters though, he was 16 for 25 with 1 TD and 2 INTs.

Favre had a high rating for the Cardinals' game, but that was because he had six TDs and four of those six were on drives started on the Cards side of the field and two of those drives were for less than 40 yards. Favre actually had three other possessions that began on the Cards side of the field and only had 6 points to show for it. Granted one was at the end of the half and only had time for one throw and then was forced to kick a field goal.

The first Miami game, most people agree that he was not nearly as good as his numbers and nearly had a really costly INT and only had a good rating because he had 2 TDs and no INTs.

You are overstating Favre's season. He was leading the league in INTs before his injury. He was still the same Favre from 2005 and 2006 who gambled and was easily pressured into making bad decisions. He had flashes at greatness, but Favre did an excellent job to keep his team AND the opponents in the game for most of the season.

 

[Gunnails]

In the Jets' defense, who could have ever predicted that a 39 yo QB would have arm issues late in a season that would affect his performance?

Just because after he turned 35 and turned in back-to-back years of low 70 ratings, low TD, high int, career low YPA...and then followed that up with a single year of solid stats...who could have expected that he would throw up a low 80 rating, low TD, high int, low YPA year with the Jets?

And now who would ever have imagined that he would waffle on retirement, hold the Jets hostage and prevent them from moving forward with preparing for the 2009 season?

Some things just come out of nowhere without any warning or explanation...

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I could go either way. I think best case scenario Favre retires, If he plays QB for the Jets next year I would'd be OK with that also. If the Jets cut him it could get messy, but I would be OK with that also.

I don't see Favre as holding the Jets hostage, The Jets have pubicly said we want you back. If Favre decides to not decide before the draft then that would be a problem, especialy for Favres legacy, it would make Favre look real bad.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

The way I see Favre is he needs to decide soon. Last year he didn't have a productive off season and his body broke down later in the season. It was obvious he didn't have what he needed to have for a late season/playoff run.

The year prior, when he lost the NFC Title game to the Giants, that off season, it is well documented, was one of the hardest off seasons he ever had. He admits that he put in more time that off season than he had for the previous years. That is part of why he retired, he knew what was required to be great again and that meant, especially at his age, a grueling hard working off season. That was what he wasn't willing to put in again last year, then he pulls that crap with Green Bay and shows up to camp. Out of Shape, Out of the Game mentally. Sure he did well at NY in the begining of the season with a pretty good running game, but when push came to shove, he couldn't get it done.

I wouldn't touch him if I was another team unless he was willing to put in the Off Season work that is required in this Modern NFL to compete into December and January. Something he admitted he wasn't willing to do last year.

 

[Rob0729]

Like it or not folks,Favre is one of the reasons for NE to miss the playoffs and the division by moving his team down the field in overtime effortlessly against the Pats soft as silk secondary on that particular prime time game.

And not to mention another time when he could not beat the Dolphins in week 17

I think these two very reasons adds to the hate Pats fans have for this guy who is still a HOFer no matter how you look at his career.

Favre most definitely is a HOFer. He deserves to be, but he is also way past his prime. Granted since he played at such a high level for a large portion of his career, his decline brings him down to average with flashes of both greatness and mediocrity.

I am not saying anything different about Favre than what I said before he was traded to the Jets or when he was traded to the Jets. Favre is a QB who is pretty average who give you a handful of HOF caliber games, but also can make a lot of costly mistakes.

You take away Favre's last 5 games (where supposably his injury caused him to make a lot of bad throws even though at least two of the INTs were within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage against the Dolphins) and he would still be tied for 8th in the league in INTs. The man throws a lot of INTs and that is not unique to this year. Throwing a lot of INTs can erase a heck of a lot of good plays a QB can do.

 

[Deus Irae]

QB rating is a bogus stat especially when you count all the passes that Favre threw right at defenders that were dropped. Favre could have easily increased his INT total by 5-10 INTs.

Farve had a 92.3 QB rating against San Deigo because he had a spectacular 4th quarter completing 14 of 17 passes for 2 TDs and no INTs. Granted, the game was out of reach for the Jets and the Chargers were playing a loose defense by that point (it was 38-14 at the end of the third quarter and the game ended with a 48-29 final). His first three quarters though, he was 16 for 25 with 1 TD and 2 INTs.

Favre had a high rating for the Cardinals' game, but that was because he had six TDs and four of those six were on drives started on the Cards side of the field and two of those drives were for less than 40 yards. Favre actually had three other possessions that began on the Cards side of the field and only had 6 points to show for it. Granted one was at the end of the half and only had time for one throw and then was forced to kick a field goal.

The first Miami game, most people agree that he was not nearly as good as his numbers and nearly had a really costly INT and only had a good rating because he had 2 TDs and no INTs.

You are overstating Favre's season. He was leading the league in INTs before his injury. He was still the same Favre from 2005 and 2006 who gambled and was easily pressured into making bad decisions. He had flashes at greatness, but Favre did an excellent job to keep his team AND the opponents in the game for most of the season.

Every time someone doesn't like what the passer rating says about a player, they call it a bogus stat. It's not. It's a compilation that has its strengths and weaknesses.

As for overstating his season, I'm not doing that by any stretch of the imagination. You keep tossing out the "only" arguments as if they mean something. Well New England "only" lost one game two seasons ago.

Look, I get that you don't like Favre. That doesn't mean that you should chuck all common sense and rationality away, though. The Jets were 8-3 and had just beaten the (at the time) best team in the NFL. Rather than ignoring that sort of thing, you should accept it and wonder what it might mean for next season if the guy comes back.

Was he really starting to get in synch with the offense, or was the 3 game stretch a fluke?
Can the Jets bring in better receivers to help?
Will that offensive line get better, or just older?
Will the extra year of age mean he becomes less effective?
Will his having a year with the offense mean he's more effective?
Will the new coaching staff help or hinder his game?
Will his injury have healed enough for him to play well?
He's never missed a game, but is father time finally going to change that?
Are the Jets really a legitimate challenger to the Patriots if Favre plays well?
etc....

These are important questions for fans and opponents alike, and ignoring them because you don't like Favre, and want to get a few more digs in at him, is just silly.

 

[Zeus]

Let's take inventory of how much progress our Green Friends have made.

1. Cut starting QB in favor of aging former superstar with Hall of Fame ego, huge salary and drama queen sensibilities. Former starting QB leads rival to division title.

2. Paid $140 million to sign overpriced free agents, resulting in 3rd place 9-7 finish and free ticket to salary cap hell. Well, maybe not a free ticket.

3. Fired backstabbing control freak head coach who is now busy trainwrecking another team (see Mike Lombardi's discussion of this).

4. New loose cannon head coach forced on idiot general manager by know-nothing owner.

5. Currently bending over for drama queen QB who will take months to decide among major surgery, retirement, sainthood, a sex change operation and a cabinet post.

So in a disappointing season for NE fans, not all is lost. Because in the land of the green, chaos reigns.

 

[The_Riddler]

Let's take inventory of how much progress our Green Friends have made.

1. Cut starting QB in favor of aging former superstar with Hall of Fame ego, huge salary and drama queen sensibilities. Former starting QB leads rival to division title.

2. Paid $140 million to sign overpriced free agents, resulting in 3rd place 9-7 finish and free ticket to salary cap hell. Well, maybe not a free ticket.

3. Fired backstabbing control freak head coach who is now busy trainwrecking another team (see Mike Lombardi's discussion of this).

4. New loose cannon head coach forced on idiot general manager by know-nothing owner.

5. Currently bending over for drama queen QB who will take months to decide among major surgery, retirement, sainthood, a sex change operation and a cabinet post.

So in a disappointing season for NE fans, not all is lost. Because in the land of the green, chaos reigns.

This Zeus is exactly why you are on the roster !

 

[Rob0729]

Every time someone doesn't like what the passer rating says about a player, they call it a bogus stat. It's not. It's a compilation that has its strengths and weaknesses.

As for overstating his season, I'm not doing that by any stretch of the imagination. You keep tossing out the "only" arguments as if they mean something. Well New England "only" lost one game two seasons ago.

Look, I get that you don't like Favre. That doesn't mean that you should chuck all common sense and rationality away, though. The Jets were 8-3 and had just beaten the (at the time) best team in the NFL. Rather than ignoring that sort of thing, you should accept it and wonder what it might mean for next season if the guy comes back.

Was he really starting to get in synch with the offense, or was the 3 game stretch a fluke?
Can the Jets bring in better receivers to help?
Will that offensive line get better, or just older?
Will the extra year of age mean he becomes less effective?
Will his having a year with the offense mean he's more effective?
Will the new coaching staff help or hinder his game?
Will his injury have healed enough for him to play well?
He's never missed a game, but is father time finally going to change that?
Are the Jets really a legitimate challenger to the Patriots if Favre plays well?
etc....

These are important questions for fans and opponents alike, and ignoring them because you don't like Favre, and want to get a few more digs in at him, is just silly.

I gave you specific examples how his passer rating is overblown. I gave you a specific example without the final game that he was consistently making costly mistakes for the Jets.

It has nothing to do with how I feel about Favre. It about the reality of the guy. He gambles too much and it costs his team. He played a big role in the loss to the Raiders. He almost cost the Jets the game vs. the Chiefs (he threw one less TD pass to a Chief player than Tyler Thigpen and had two other INTs to boot). He almost lost the Cincy game.

You want to talk about stretches? How about the four game stretch between week 6 and 10 where the Chiefs faced three of the worst teams in the league (Cincy, KC, and Oakland along with a mediocre Bills team) and he had 3 TDs and 8 INTS? That was before he was injured and was against bad teams.

I am looking at this realistically about Favre. He had an up and down season all year long not just the final five weeks. I'm sorry you can't see that. Just because the Jets squeaked by Bills (the week 10 game) on a week where Favre threw for 201 yards, no TDs (unless you count Jabari Greer's INT for a TD), and an INT doesn't mean he deserves credit for playing well in the win.

I watched a lot of Jets games this year and other than a handful of them, Favre was no prize and actually many times was the team's worst enemy. Yes, he was great in the Pats second game and ok in the Titans' game (he did have a costly penalty at the time), but the Jets won a lot of those first eight wins because of the defense and not the offense. Favre did a lot to keep teams in games this season and not just the last five games.

I think my assessment is pretty fair on the guy. I think even a lot of diehard Favre fans would agree about him. It may not been his fault. It could have been Mangini and his staff, but it was the additions of Kris Jenkins and Calvin Pace that got them to 8-3 far, far more than the addition of Favre.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

I could go either way. I think best case scenario Favre retires, If he plays QB for the Jets next year I would'd be OK with that also.

You Jests fans really are a masochistic lot, aren't you? Wowser.