Trading picks for vets and RFAs

[jeffbiologist]

In the past we have always taken fliers on the disenchanted. Our team is relatively young at plenty of positions and there is no way we can keep even half of our draft picks on the roster, especially if we trade Cassel. Last year we were "older" and most every draft pick made the team over their respective FAs. We always trade for future picks too, but who will be this years' Moss, Welker, Dillon or Starks?

With ex Pats in several FOs it wouldnt surprise me to see some wheelin and dealin as the Broncos and Chiefs purge vets. BTW, how about trading Cassel and Maroney to KC for Huard, Gonzalez, LJ and their #2?

 

[RayClay]

In the past we have always taken fliers on the disenchanted. Our team is relatively young at plenty of positions and there is no way we can keep even half of our draft picks on the roster, especially if we trade Cassel. Last year we were "older" and most every draft pick made the team over their respective FAs. We always trade for future picks too, but who will be this years' Moss, Welker, Dillon or Starks?

With ex Pats in several FOs it wouldnt surprise me to see some wheelin and dealin as the Broncos and Chiefs purge vets. BTW, how about trading Cassel and Maroney to KC for Huard, Gonzalez, LJ and their #2?

I believe we'll have multiple 2,3,4 without a Cassel trade, but don't quote me. Samuel comp for a three, somebody a 4? (can't remember, it's late).

We will have too many picks to all make the team. Trade for future picks or trade up? I could see a veteran safety, but only a relatively young FA LB, we are too old at that position IMO. A solid affordable blocking TE or linemean maybe.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

That trade with KC would be terrible! Why would you want a worn down Larry Johnson? Tony Gonzalez would be ok but he wouldn't be included in a trade with Cassel. At 33, Gonzalez is worth a 4th at best. Maroney has one more year to prove himself and he is cheap. The Pats are a passing first team, but the RB's they have now are pretty damn good. With all their injuries to RB, they still rushed for an average of over 140 yards per game. Cassel will be traded for picks, not players.

But to answer your first question, I don't see the Pats trading for any player.

 

[spann31]

please make a trade for lito sheppeard

 

[tanked_as_usual]

player for player trades are very rare, but I would consider trading cassel for gonzalez plus KC's 2nd rounder and whatever else it would take to make it a balanced trade

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I believe we'll have multiple 2,3,4 without a Cassel trade, but don't quote me. Samuel comp for a three, somebody a 4? (can't remember, it's late).

Trade for future picks or trade up?

I would be very, very surprised if the Pats don't trade a day one pick this year for a day one pick next year, since, if the Pats do as well as we think they can, they will have a hard time signing UFAs next year (thanks to the CBA poison pills).

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I would be very, very surprised if the Pats don't trade a day one pick this year for a day one pick next year, since, if the Pats do as well as we think they can, they will have a hard time signing UFAs next year (thanks to the CBA poison pills).

I got to agree with you on BB stashing a 2010 chip. Mayock and Davis were saying that finding trading partnes is going to be difficult in this draft, but in the past BB has moved about the draft effortlessly. It seems the deeper the draft, the less BB moves.

I wonder how active KC will become?

 

[dryheat44]

I would be very, very surprised if the Pats don't trade a day one pick this year for a day one pick next year, since, if the Pats do as well as we think they can, they will have a hard time signing UFAs next year (thanks to the CBA poison pills).

Not necessarily. They won't be able to sign one until they lose one. Losing free agents has never been a difficult task for this team...and we have many contracts up after next year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Not necessarily. They won't be able to sign one until they lose one. Losing free agents has never been a difficult task for this team...and we have many contracts up after next year.

But also note this provision:

so long as the Player Contract for the New Player shall have a first year Salary of no more than the first year Salary of the Player Contract signed by the Previous Player with the New Club, and an annual increase in any future contract years of no more than 30% of the first contract year Salary, excluding any amounts attributable to any signing bonus.

In other words, not only would the Pats not be able to sign a true UFA until one of theirs signed with another team, but they would also have to sign the new player to a smaller contract.

It also makes no provisions for retiring players, either.

 

[mayoclinic]

how about trading Cassel and Maroney to KC for Huard, Gonzalez, LJ and their #2?

What a horrible idea! It makes no sense to trade a prize commodity for a #2 pick plus a JAG, an injured 30 year old RB with personal issues, and a 33 year old tight end.

Unless we are trading Cassel for a top tier player (e.g, Julius Peppers) we should be getting premium draft picks for him.

 

[dryheat44]

But also note this provision:



In other words, not only would the Pats not be able to sign a true UFA until one of theirs signed with another team, but they would also have to sign the new player to a smaller contract.

I wasn't aware of that provision. But since only the first season of the contract has to be at a lesser rate, and the signing bonus isn't figured, it seems like a minor hangup. Plus, players that leave the Pats tend to make more from their new teams than the Pats typically pay.

Weird provision though, attempting to stack the odds against the "final 8" teams.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I wasn't aware of that provision. But since only the first season of the contract has to be at a lesser rate, and the signing bonus isn't figured, it seems like a minor hangup. Plus, players that leave the Pats tend to make more from their new teams than the Pats typically pay.

Weird provision though, attempting to stack the odds against the "final 8" teams.

Read it again--the first-year salary is limited, and so are future increases in salary.

 

[cstjohn17]

I am not sure about the trading aspect, it is very rare to see player for player trades. But draft picks for a player is interesting but in most cased the players traded are malcontents that are trying to shoot their way out of the situation.

I have been looking at Safety because IMO it is the biggest hole on the roster. This is a very weak class of Safeties, I can barely see any college players with NFL starting potential. This likely means that the open Safety slot will be filled by a veteran. Pick your veteran du jour, some solid players but nothing special.

Sanders (Pats), Jones (Browns), Phillips (Bucs), Atogwe (Rams), Brown (Bears), Butler (Giants), Leonhard (Ravens), Harrison (Pats)

 

[dryheat44]

Read it again--the first-year salary is limited, and so are future increases in salary.

No, I understand that part. There's a 30% rule currently in the NFL, so that's not really an issue. It was likely put in place to prevent teams from getting around the provision by giving Julius Peppers a contract worth 1 million the first year and 12 million the next two.

But those are base salary figures, which can be skirted by way of signing bonus, and presumably, roster boni.

And, like I said, in any case, the UFA the Patriots lose, whether it be Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, or Ellis Hobbs, is likely to sign a bigger contract with another team than anybody the Patriots bring in, so it would be a moot point.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No, I understand that part. There's a 30% rule currently in the NFL, so that's not really an issue. It was likely put in place to prevent teams from getting around the provision by giving Julius Peppers a contract worth 1 million the first year and 12 million the next two.

The 30% rule only takes effect this year, because next year is uncapped. Contracts entered into in an uncapped year (i.e., spring 2010) would not normally be subject to that provision, but final eight UFA contracts would be.

 

[DW Toys]

In the past we have always taken fliers on the disenchanted. Our team is relatively young at plenty of positions and there is no way we can keep even half of our draft picks on the roster, especially if we trade Cassel. Last year we were "older" and most every draft pick made the team over their respective FAs. We always trade for future picks too, but who will be this years' Moss, Welker, Dillon or Starks?

With ex Pats in several FOs it wouldnt surprise me to see some wheelin and dealin as the Broncos and Chiefs purge vets. BTW, how about trading Cassel and Maroney to KC for Huard, Gonzalez, LJ and their #2?

Jeff,I already suggested that one this week and got roasted by the "extremely serious" Hitler youth on this site. I was a little different than you. I said swap first rounds (this way Pioli gets to keep a first rounder and still gets Cassel), pick up K.C.'s second round number 35 pick, and get Gonzales and LJ for Cassel, Maroney and Dave Thomas to start for the Chiefs at TE.

LJ wants out and is still a premier back when healthy and only 29 (I asked but was not granted the "Dillon Clause"), TG has a three year contract that is CAP decent, wants a ring and some say he is washed up with 96 catches. I like washed up TEs with 96 catches.

Maroney is from that area,. It gives Pioli three of his former draft choices as a offensive base and he still gets rid of the LJ issue and keeps a first rounder.
Worse case scenario is we swap LJ for picks. What if he lights it up as our primary back though?

The #35 pick is intriguing and you know BB will swap out of #3 even if it is a 2010 extra choice.

I like your thinking. I say why not? I know Randy Moss was way too old and a evil person. We get one old one and one evil one here. I say we use the "Dillon Clause" on LJ and get a Fountain Of Youth for TG.
DW Toys

 

[b72s]

San Fran

Cassell to his home town San Fran for a pick and CB Nate Clements

Out of our division and Clements contract is manageable now after big payouts already done

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: San Fran

Cassell to his home town San Fran for a pick and CB Nate Clements

Out of our division and Clements contract is manageable now after big payouts already done

Brady is from San Fran; Cassel's an LA boy.

 

[dryheat44]

I like your thinking. I say why not? I know Randy Moss was way too old and a evil person. We get one old one and one evil one here. I say we use the "Dillon Clause" on LJ and get a Fountain Of Youth for TG.
DW Toys

We traded a second round pick for Corey Dillon.
We traded a forth round pick for Randy Moss.

It's really not the same as trading two good players on their rookie contracts to get two guys closer to the end of their career than the beginning, one of whom is an immature flake.

If Pioli wants to trade us Gonzo for a third rounder, fine. It's hard, though, to get younger as a team by trading young players who take up little cap room for old ones that take up a lot of cap room.

And frankly, I'm not convinced Larry Johnson is any better than Maroney. Notice his numbers went way down after the all-world offensive line in KC disintegrated.

 

[dryheat44]

Re: San Fran

Cassell to his home town San Fran for a pick and CB Nate Clements

Out of our division and Clements contract is manageable now after big payouts already done

No way that Belichick inherits that contract.