Chiefs fans debate trading 3rd pick overall for Matt Cassel

[billdog3484]

I doubt Pioli, having learned a thing or two about the draft, will keep that #3 overall.

People out here will moan and groan and not understand it, but i wouldnt be surprised to see him trade it down for #2 and #3 and a #1 in 2010 or something and then sign a Garcia-caliber QB. That would give the Chiefs picks #35, a 40-something, #67, and,say #80. with Pioli doing the picking thats a lot of quality.

thats what always happens here.

i feel like a lot of teams are starting to copy the patriots and are unwilling to make a huge jump up to get into the top 5. maybe a team coveting a player sitting at 7 may jump up, but i feel moving from from about 20 into the top 5 has become less and less prevalent

 

[Rob0729]

Illminating review. But it won't change the minds of the draftniks who hoard picks like Midas hoarded Gold. But I disagree with your "Its to hard to trade out of the ..." Bill had the #7 last year, and traded down to 11 or 12 and still got the DROY. And a got another draft pick.

I would think that Bill would probably move down to 7-8 and pick up a pick; if he didn't use the pick for a stud LOT; and then move down to 10-12 and pick up a stud whatever, and also get another pick. JUST LIKE HE DID LAST YEAR...

There is a huge difference between trading the #3 pick and the #7 pick. The guaranteed money alone can be $10-15 million less. That is huge. It is hard to trade out of the top 5. Once you get out of the top 5, it gets significantly easier to trade out of the pick.

Here is a list of all the contracts from the first round and there is a decent drop in guaranteed money when you drop down.

2008 NFL Draft - First-Round Selections - Contract Terms : Pro Athletes Only

 

[DW Toys]

There is a huge difference between trading the #3 pick and the #7 pick. The guaranteed money alone can be $10-15 million less. That is huge. It is hard to trade out of the top 5. Once you get out of the top 5, it gets significantly easier to trade out of the pick.

Here is a list of all the contracts from the first round and there is a decent drop in guaranteed money when you drop down.

2008 NFL Draft - First-Round Selections - Contract Terms : Pro Athletes Only

Good post.
DW Toys

 

[Deus Irae]

There is a huge difference between trading the #3 pick and the #7 pick. The guaranteed money alone can be $10-15 million less. That is huge. It is hard to trade out of the top 5. Once you get out of the top 5, it gets significantly easier to trade out of the pick.

Here is a list of all the contracts from the first round and there is a decent drop in guaranteed money when you drop down.

2008 NFL Draft - First-Round Selections - Contract Terms : Pro Athletes Only

The problem with these arguments (not yours specifically, but all the "top 5 is bad" arguments) is that they really only tell half the story. There's probably not a team in the league that's in need of a quarterback that wouldn't go back and trade for Matt Ryan if they could hop in a time machine. The problem comes up when a bad team goes with a Cedric Benson.

In other words, while it's true that the salaries for the top players are sky high, the main problem is not really that the top players drafted get so much money. It's more that the top picks have such a huge downside if the team blows the choice. Even more than that, it's when the same horrible teams keep blowing the picks that this becomes a real issue because if good teams just happen to have a down season, good teams will be smart enough to take advantage of the draft position and solidify their team.

Detroit is a perfect example of this. If Detroit had just taken DeMarcus Ware instead of Mike Williams, Big Ben instead of Roy Williams, and Andre Johnson instead of Charles Rogers, they'd probably be a playoff contender rather than an historical footnote, and they sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about the contracts.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

i feel like a lot of teams are starting to copy the patriots and are unwilling to make a huge jump up to get into the top 5. maybe a team coveting a player sitting at 7 may jump up, but i feel moving from from about 20 into the top 5 has become less and less prevalent

I agree it is just too costly to move up into the top 10. Look at the Jaguars last year they traded their first-round pick (No. 26 overall), two third-round picks and a fourth-round pick with Baltimore for the No. 8 pick, which they used on Florida DE Derrick Harvey. The funny thing was they wanted Groves badly and he fell to them at the end of the second round. I really think that in this draft to have a pick from 15 to 25 is a great spot. I really like picks 18-20, all NFC teams who need a QB, combine that with a compensatory pick in 2010 and pull the trigger.

 

[salvi20]

No way the Chiefs give up the 3rd pick this coming year for Matt Cassel. Maybe a second pick or a third pick along with Larry Johnson. Johnson has made it clear that he wants out and everyone know that the Patriots need some help at the rb spot. The Patriots will need to run a little more to start the season with Tom Brady coming back from his knee injury. Maybe Johnson could do with his career what Randy Moss did when he came over from the Oakland Raiders. Go Chiefs!

 

[JoePats]

You can keep Larry Johnson thanks.

 

[GroganCountry]

No way the Chiefs give up the 3rd pick this coming year for Matt Cassel. Maybe a second pick or a third pick along with Larry Johnson. Johnson has made it clear that he wants out and everyone know that the Patriots need some help at the rb spot. The Patriots will need to run a little more to start the season with Tom Brady coming back from his knee injury. Maybe Johnson could do with his career what Randy Moss did when he came over from the Oakland Raiders. Go Chiefs!

Even Larry Johnson thinks Matt Cassel is nothing to spit at.

Pass on that ridiculous deal.

 

[DW Toys]

No way the Chiefs give up the 3rd pick this coming year for Matt Cassel. Maybe a second pick or a third pick along with Larry Johnson. Johnson has made it clear that he wants out and everyone know that the Patriots need some help at the rb spot. The Patriots will need to run a little more to start the season with Tom Brady coming back from his knee injury. Maybe Johnson could do with his career what Randy Moss did when he came over from the Oakland Raiders. Go Chiefs!

How does this sound Mr. Chiefs fan? A blockbuster IMO. Trade Cassel to K.C. along with Maroney and TE Dave Thomas, for an exchange of picks in round one (our #23 for K.C.'s first round #3 pick), your second round pick at #34 and we get LJ who wants out and Gonzales (a decent CAP with three years remaining).

K.C. gets their QB. They move Gonzales who they wanted a third rounder for last fall and LJ wants out of town. Worse case is we trade LJ for picks. The Chiefs get a young core that Pioli knows and drafted (Maroney is from that area). Now Pioli also gets to keep a first round pick for an OL stud. Plus he has CAP room to spend.

So at the end of the day, yes I would take that #3 first rounder. The Pats would find a trading partner for that choice.

I'd take a flyer on LJ. Some here hated the Moss trade.
DW Toys

 

[MassPats38]

LJ who wants out

LJ may want out but it's the owner who's at the end of his rope trying to deal with all of his off field issues. The fact is Johnson was used heavily in KC (losts of wear on those tires), is hitting 30 (a critical age for running backs - see Shaun Alexander), has played in an average of 10 games per season his past two years, and has become Pacman junior with his random off field anger issues. Not a huge up side at this point in his career.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

They are bad bad evaluators at that board.

The reason you can see Cassel has talent is his accuracy. He rarely throws a wild ball, and e makes great decisions.

No matter the WRs you have, or the line you have, the people around you can't help you throw the ball and throw it to the right WR.

 

[VJCPatriot]

LOL they think they are getting Cassel from us for a 3rd round pick. That's hilarious! I'd rather see the Chiefs draft Sanchez with their #3 overall and watch him BUST! Don't worry Chief fans, there are other teams with later 1st round picks that will land Cassel. #3 overall is probably too high for Cassel, sure, but that just makes it bad for the Chiefs if they want him, not bad for the Pats who will have plenty of other suitors.

 

[JSn]

LOL they think they are getting Cassel from us for a 3rd round pick. That's hilarious! I'd rather see the Chiefs draft Sanchez with their #3 overall and watch him BUST! Don't worry Chief fans, there are other teams with later 1st round picks that will land Cassel. #3 overall is probably too high for Cassel, sure, but that just makes it bad for the Chiefs if they want him, not bad for the Pats who will have plenty of other suitors.

Pioli won't take bad risks at QB, imo.

 

[mcsully]

How does this sound Mr. Chiefs fan? A blockbuster IMO. Trade Cassel to K.C. along with Maroney and TE Dave Thomas, for an exchange of picks in round one (our #23 for K.C.'s first round #3 pick), your second round pick at #34 and we get LJ who wants out and Gonzales (a decent CAP with three years remaining).

K.C. gets their QB. They move Gonzales who they wanted a third rounder for last fall and LJ wants out of town. Worse case is we trade LJ for picks. The Chiefs get a young core that Pioli knows and drafted (Maroney is from that area). Now Pioli also gets to keep a first round pick for an OL stud. Plus he has CAP room to spend.

So at the end of the day, yes I would take that #3 first rounder. The Pats would find a trading partner for that choice.

I'd take a flyer on LJ. Some here hated the Moss trade.
DW Toys

KC GETS: Cassel, Maroney, Thomas, 23rd pick
Patriots: Gonzalez, LJ, 3rd pick in draft and 34th pick in draft

Stand back and take off the patriots goggles I would love the trade but no way Pioli makes this move. He'd be giving up 2 high picks (which would be starters), plus another 2 starters in Gonzalex and LJ.. And your giving them only 1 starter, Cassel.. Maroney would not start over J. Charles and Thomas isn't on the field that much..

 

[JSn]

Despite the talk of lopsided trades, Gonzo still wants out and could cause the Chiefs to get Cassel for less than a #1, no?

Gonzalez still wants to be traded - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

“You never know, and that’s the thing about the NFL right now,” Gonzalez said when it was pointed out to him that defensive end Jason Taylor made the same push last offseason only to see the team he left [Miami] go to the playoffs and the team he joined [Washington] not make it.

“You can go from being really bad one year and all of a sudden be really good the next year. So you have to factor that in. We have a young football team that could be really good out there in Kansas City. Now, the question is, are they going to make it to a Super Bowl? Like with Jason [Taylor], even if he’d have stayed in Miami, yeah, you could be good. But I don’t care about being good. I want to be great. I want to win a Super Bowl.”

 

[Deus Irae]

I used to think that Jets fans were the biggest idiots in football. I still do, but some of the Chiefs fans on that site are giving them a run for their money.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Despite the talk of lopsided trades, Gonzo still wants out and could cause the Chiefs to get Cassel for less than a #1, no?

Gonzalez still wants to be traded - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

FWIW, I don't think the Pats would get a top-tier player and a first for Cassel, but they are probably going to want at least one or the other.

 

[JSn]

FWIW, I don't think the Pats would get a top-tier player and a first for Cassel, but they are probably going to want at least one or the other.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. If we could get Tony and #2, I think we could make that work.

The main thing is if even two teams find themselves feeling they "must have" Matt, the trade is going to be ******ed. In a good way. For the Pats.

Haven't you ever overpaid for something you didn't really need?

What if tons of people were watching you an you had millions to work with. You'd definitely do it.

 

[maverick4]

Pioli won't draft a QB nor will he give up multiple picks for Cassel.

He'll spend a bunch of picks on boring but smart choices on the O and D lines.

 

[billdog3484]

Pioli won't draft a QB nor will he give up multiple picks for Cassel.

He'll spend a bunch of picks on boring but smart choices on the O and D lines.

i dont know how you can be so certain about this. yes, in the past he has done so, but that is just an indicator of the likelihood. i understand your line of thinking, but keep in mind, in New England we always had a QB, Bledsoe and Brady, so there was not a need to draft there. You live and die with a QB. if he thinks Sanchez or Stafford has "it" and they are available, i cannot imagine a situation where he passes that up. likewise, if he thinks Cassel can instantaneously turn around the franchise, of course he would be willing to trade multiple picks for him. he would be crazy not to.