More declare:

[dryheat44]

So we got the 12th best CB in the 4th round? And where did Wheatley rank on this list?

Wheatley was not on my list of "Patriot-type players". Don't ask me why, I don't remember.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Wheatley was not on my list of "Patriot-type players". Don't ask me why, I don't remember.

Maybe the injury flag? Which ironically cropped up this year translating into IR time...

 

[DaBruinz]

Maybe the injury flag? Which ironically cropped up this year translating into IR time...

People like you keep saying this. He had ONE injury during college. And that was his broken right wrist. There were complications when the rod that was put in was defective and snapped. But his injury with the Pats was the opposite wrist. And there was nothing that could have been done because he came down awkward.

 

[mmasterkillah]

I'm pretty sure that Wilhite was similarly injured in college.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Here is the latest list from ESPN 39 names....

Underclassmen heading to NFL draft - ESPN

BTW Asher Allen is 5' 10" and not 5'1" as ESPN has him....

Anybody else get the feeling that a few of these guys are entering the draft on some bad advice?

 

[PATSNUTme]

There are usually some that enter who should have stayed in college.

Pro Football Weekly rated this years seniors and their opinion was the following regarding the strenght and weakness of the seniors:

QB- weak
RB- weak
WR- weak
TE- very strong
OC- very strong
OG- average
OT- strong
Dt- average
DE- good
OLB- good but some DE conversions can make it strong
M/ILB very strong
CB- average to below
S- very strong

So, now with some of the underclassmen declaring it may make some of those weak or average positions strong or stronger. I believe that is the reason Sanchez declared as next years QB class is suppose to be strong.

I think the CB class just got elevated along with the RB's.

 

[mgteich]

Do we have a final list of those that declared?

 

[patchick]

Anybody else get the feeling that a few of these guys are entering the draft on some bad advice?

My guess is that some are following bad advice; some have simply made the rational calculation that the potential improvement in their draft status from this year to next isn't worth the risk of injury, the extra year off of their already short expected careers, and having to spend another year pretending to go to college.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm pretty sure that Wilhite was similarly injured in college.

Wilhite broke his right wrist in college. With the Pats, he broke his left.

 

[The_Riddler]

People like you keep saying this. He had ONE injury during college. And that was his broken right wrist. There were complications when the rod that was put in was defective and snapped. But his injury with the Pats was the opposite wrist. And there was nothing that could have been done because he came down awkward.

DaBruinz, thanks for checking in, you were also down on Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie prior to the draft, you didn't want the Pats to go anywhere near him because of his D2 pedigree. What are you thoughts about DRC today, and what kind of player do you think he'll be in the future?

Personally, I think when his career is finished, he is going to be the best CB to ever play the game. That is my honest opinion based on what i had witnessed that the Senior Bowl, his limited college clips and and his combine, combined with all of the Cardinal games that I was able to witness up to today.

Are you in the (Curtis Lofton/DRC) or (Mayo/Wheatley) camp ?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

DaBruinz, thanks for checking in, you were also down on Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie prior to the draft, you didn't want the Pats to go anywhere near him because of his D2 pedigree. What are you thoughts about DRC today, and what kind of player do you think he'll be in the future?

Personally, I think when his career is finished, he is going to be the best CB to ever play the game. That is my honest opinion based on what i had witnessed that the Senior Bowl, his limited college clips and and his combine, combined with all of the Cardinal games that I was able to witness up to today.

Are you in the (Curtis Lofton/DRC) or (Mayo/Wheatley) camp ?

I had DRC as a day one, but can't remember if I had him late first or early second. I had Mayo as my #2 Pats prospect in round one (behind Chris Long whom I did not expect to fall to NE). Wheatley was a 4th rounder in my mind because I had his wrist injury as a caution flag. Lofton wasn't high on my list as a possible 3-4 ILB, I think he found himself in an excellent situation as MLB for Atlanta - their DL really helped him.

DRC/Lofton v. Mayo/Wheatley?

I'd say both teams drafting in round one scored a bullseye. Trying to decide which one got the better player is futile at this point in their careers, but trying to decide if NE took the better value for their program is a no-brainer: If NE doesn't take an ILB at #10, who plays ILB for them in 2008? CB later in the draft was a better decision - as both Wheatley and Wilhite showed by winning starts in the second half of the season.

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz, thanks for checking in, you were also down on Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie prior to the draft, you didn't want the Pats to go anywhere near him because of his D2 pedigree. What are you thoughts about DRC today, and what kind of player do you think he'll be in the future?

Considering that I've been around on a regular basis, its YOU whom should be thanked for checking in for a change. Nothing like disappearing only to reappear when its convenient. Of course, you re-appear and proceed to put words in my mouth. I was NOT down on Wheatley. You clearly mis-read what I said. I was pointing out where the previous poster was incorrect about the Wheatley's wrist injury and the "injury" flag.

My thoughts on DRC are the same. I don't believe he's going to be anything more than a mediocre #1 corner in this league. He showboats and he damn near cost his team a safety on the interception he had against the Giants. Had they tackled him after he went into the endzone, it was a safety. I didn't watch many of Arizona's games this year, but the ones I did showed him to be a below average tackler and someone who takes too many risks.. Only time will tell how good he will be.

Personally, I think when his career is finished, he is going to be the best CB to ever play the game. That is my honest opinion based on what i had witnessed that the Senior Bowl, his limited college clips and and his combine, combined with all of the Cardinal games that I was able to witness up to today.

Are you in the (Curtis Lofton/DRC) or (Mayo/Wheatley) camp ?

I am very happy with who the Pats picked. And, as was mentioned, they didn't get just Mayo and Wheatley. They also got others as well thanks to the trade down.

But that isn't the purpose of this thread. The purpose of this thread is to talk about the underclassmen when have declared this year. If you want to talk about DRC, start up a thread in the visiting lockerroom.

 

[patchick]

Are you in the (Curtis Lofton/DRC) or (Mayo/Wheatley) camp ?

Forgive me for repeating myself, but you really have to stop comparing those two pairs as if it were a choice between them. It simply wasn't; Lofton was long, long gone before the Wheatley pick. You might as well say the Pats should have taken LaRon Landry over Meriweather.

Again, a fairer comparison is

DRC/Lofton instead of Mayo/Wheatley/O'Connell/Wilhite

 

[The_Riddler]

Forgive me for repeating myself, but you really have to stop comparing those two pairs as if it were a choice between them. It simply wasn't; Lofton was long, long gone before the Wheatley pick. You might as well say the Pats should have taken LaRon Landry over Meriweather.

Again, a fairer comparison is

DRC/Lofton instead of Mayo/Wheatley/O'Connell/Wilhite

patchick, I understand what you're saying, yet I do think you are including a tad too much in your scenario. This trade value in terms of numbers exceeds what would have been required to jump from 62 to 37, removing Wilhite and including Slater is the more likely scenario, to make that jump up to 37, not Wilhite. So in all fairness it would have been (DRC/Curtis Lofton) vs (Mayo/Wheatley/O'Connell/Slater).

Could Lofton have fit in a 3-4, I believe he could and would have thrived and had a great rookie year like he had in Atl, again, my opinion. The key guy is DRC and what he would have brought to that defensive backfield. He was Asante's replacement and then some at 1/5 Asante's cost. I understand Wheatley got hurt, and don't get me wrong, I'm high on Wheats, I just believe that DRC is in a whole different stratosphere in terms of his impact.

 

[The_Riddler]

I was NOT down on Wheatley. You clearly mis-read what I said. I was pointing out where the previous poster was incorrect about the Wheatley's wrist injury and the "injury" flag.

DaBruinz, I respect your knowledge, you know the game. I didn't say you were down on Wheatley, I had said you were down on DRC.

That being said, people who play with DRC on the Cardinals are already saying that he's destined for Canton. Darrell Green, one of the greatest cover corners to ever play has said that DRC is a lock for Canton.

Last week, DRC's shutdown coverage of Steve Smith allowed the Cards to stuff the box and take out Carolina's running game. This ultimately won them the game because when Carolina can't run, they can't win. Whiz put alot of responsibility on DRC last week because he knows what kind of player he has in DRC. What a great weapon that is, to be able to draw up a defensive game plan to shut down one side of the football field and the other team's top weapon so that the rest of your defense can focus on other aspects of the game plan. DRC literally shut Steve Smith down, had a pick and caused another pick, his impact on that game was unbelievable for a guy that just entered the starting line up on week 9. Personally, I believe he's the next Deion Sanders who has the potential to even be better as he progresses, his upside is that high. Again, that is an opinion shared by myself, the Cardinal players, his coaches and from what I've read Darrell Green and other NFL personnel.

Like I said, if you think he's simply going to be a "mediocre #1 corner", I respect that, I just wanted your honest opinion of DRC now and going forward, because you had stated prior to the draft that you didn't want the Pats to draft him and also because I respect your knowledge of NFL talent. Ditto for Dryheat, another opinion that I greatly respect, I wanted his take on DRC now and going forward, because he also didn't want the Pats to draft DRC.

Thanks

 

[dryheat44]

Personally, I think when his career is finished, he is going to be the best CB to ever play the game. That is my honest opinion based on what i had witnessed that the Senior Bowl, his limited college clips and and his combine, combined with all of the Cardinal games that I was able to witness up to today.

That might be the ballsiest statement I've read on this site, considering he's started for about half a season. I'm willing to bet when his career's over, he's not the best cornerback named Cromartie to play the game...or Cardinal cornerback (Aeneas Williams).

But come on...Rod Woodson, Deion Sanders, Mike Haynes, etc. DRC is going to be better than all of them based on what you've seen so far???

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz, I respect your knowledge, you know the game. I didn't say you were down on Wheatley, I had said you were down on DRC.

When someone says "You were down on DRC ALSO" it usually means that you are including the previous subject person. In this case, it was Wheatley.

That being said, people who play with DRC on the Cardinals are already saying that he's destined for Canton. Darrell Green, one of the greatest cover corners to ever play has said that DRC is a lock for Canton.

Last week, DRC's shutdown coverage of Steve Smith allowed the Cards to stuff the box and take out Carolina's running game. This ultimately won them the game because when Carolina can't run, they can't win. Whiz put alot of responsibility on DRC last week because he knows what kind of player he has in DRC. What a great weapon that is, to be able to draw up a defensive game plan to shut down one side of the football field and the other team's top weapon so that the rest of your defense can focus on other aspects of the game plan. DRC literally shut Steve Smith down, had a pick and caused another pick, his impact on that game was unbelievable for a guy that just entered the starting line up on week 9. Personally, I believe he's the next Deion Sanders who has the potential to even be better as he progresses, his upside is that high. Again, that is an opinion shared by myself, the Cardinal players, his coaches and from what I've read Darrell Green and other NFL personnel.

DRC wasn't the only one who shut down Steve Smith. They put DRC on him but he constantly has safety help over the top. I think you are truly over-stating the impact that DRC had and you are taking away ALOT from Adrian Wilson and Antrel Rolle. Both of whom had the over the top coverage on Smith at one point or another.,

You make it sound like Deion Sanders was something he wasn't. Sanders was a horrible tackler and succeeded at a time when they allowed a lot more in the way of clutching and grabbing down the field. I don't see DRC being able to do that.

Like I said, if you think he's simply going to be a "mediocre #1 corner", I respect that, I just wanted your honest opinion of DRC now and going forward, because you had stated prior to the draft that you didn't want the Pats to draft him and also because I respect your knowledge of NFL talent. Ditto for Dryheat, another opinion that I greatly respect, I wanted his take on DRC now and going forward, because he also didn't want the Pats to draft DRC.

Thanks

I can't speak for Dryheat, but my reason is and will continue to be that DRC doesn't tackle well. He's also too much of a risk taker, in my opinion.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I was NOT down on Wheatley. You clearly mis-read what I said. I was pointing out where the previous poster was incorrect about the Wheatley's wrist injury and the "injury" flag.

DaBruinz, I respect your knowledge, you know the game. I didn't say you were down on Wheatley, I had said you were down on DRC.

That being said, people who play with DRC on the Cardinals are already saying that he's destined for Canton. Darrell Green, one of the greatest cover corners to ever play has said that DRC is a lock for Canton.

Last week, DRC's shutdown coverage of Steve Smith allowed the Cards to stuff the box and take out Carolina's running game. This ultimately won them the game because when Carolina can't run, they can't win. Whiz put alot of responsibility on DRC last week because he knows what kind of player he has in DRC. What a great weapon that is, to be able to draw up a defensive game plan to shut down one side of the football field and the other team's top weapon so that the rest of your defense can focus on other aspects of the game plan. DRC literally shut Steve Smith down, had a pick and caused another pick, his impact on that game was unbelievable for a guy that just entered the starting line up on week 9. Personally, I believe he's the next Deion Sanders who has the potential to even be better as he progresses, his upside is that high. Again, that is an opinion shared by myself, the Cardinal players, his coaches and from what I've read Darrell Green and other NFL personnel.

Like I said, if you think he's simply going to be a "mediocre #1 corner", I respect that, I just wanted your honest opinion of DRC now and going forward, because you had stated prior to the draft that you didn't want the Pats to draft him and also because I respect your knowledge of NFL talent. Ditto for Dryheat, another opinion that I greatly respect, I wanted his take on DRC now and going forward, because he also didn't want the Pats to draft DRC.

Thanks

I don't want to hear about the Hall of Fame after a damn rookie ever.
You can come back in 5 years and brag about him. But, please. Greatest cb
ever? Put the pipe down and post when you sober up and he makes 8-10
pro bowls. Everybody said similiar things about A.Cromartie last year. Not
too hot this year eh?

 

[The_Riddler]

Brandon Flowers, a guy both Mike Mayock (#1 on his CB board) and DryHeat44 loved prior to the 08 draft, had a tremendous year for the Chiefs. Here's a complete breakdown from Tony Pisano with his "two cents" on each Corner.

Top 50 Cornerback Rankings
By: Tony Pisano
January 12, 2009 5:29pm CST

In this article I will breakdown over 50 NFL CBs individually. I watched all 256 NFL regular season games and made extensive notes on almost every CB in the league. Based on the statistics I created, and the eyes with which I watched the games, I have created a list of the top 50 CBs, and a few extras.

1. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 29 attempts, 4.97 YPA, 62.07 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Was this the best season every for a CB? Asomugha was only thrown at 29 times the entire season and allowed just 9 receptions. He allowed two catches (both to Tony Gonzalez) over an eight game span in the middle of the season. He allowed 144 yards receiving for the season, and 46 of those came on one play against the Chargers where he misjudged an underthrown pass to Vincent Jackson. If a CB has had a better season than this, I’d like to see the numbers.

2. Corey Webster, New York Giants
Season Totals: 66 attempts, 3.92 YPA, 65.15 Forced INC%, 1 TD, 3 INTs

My two cents: Did Corey Webster seriously not make the Pro Bowl? I have come to terms with the Pro Bowl being absolutely meaningless, but that is just ridiculous. There wasn’t an NFC CB to even come close to the level on which Webster played. He led all CBs with a 3.92 YPA, and a 65.15 forced incompletion percentage. The only TD he allowed was to Terrell Owens in a week nine victory.

3. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
Season Totals: 72 attempts, 4.96 YPA, 51.39 Forced INC%, 1 TD, 5 INTs

My two cents: This guy really stepped up his game this season. Only Nnamdi Asomugha played the position better in the AFC. Not only was Revis one of the best coverage CBs in the league, he also picked off five passes. If this guy improves (or even stays level) the Jets have a CB they can build a defense around.

4. Charles Woodson, Green Bay Packers
Season Totals: 65 attempts, 5.69 YPA, 56.92 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 7 INTs

My two cents: I’m amazed that Woodson seems to get better with age. I would have to imagine that this was the best season of his career. While impressive, let’s forget about his seven INTs for a second. A YPA under 6, and a forced incompletion percentage over 50, is just ridiculous. Something else that should be noted is the Packers style of defense. Not only do they play mostly man-to-man coverage, but their pass rush was very weak this year. Ok, now you can remember that he picked off seven passes which led all CBs.

5. Sheldon Brown, Philadelphia Eagles
Season Totals: 63 attempts, 4.84 YPA, 44.44 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: I have been calling Sheldon Brown overrated for a few years now, but he sure did shut me up this season. Among CBs with at least 40 attempts, Brown was behind only Brandon Flowers, Samari Rolle and Corey Webster with a 4.84 YPA. In a must win situation during the Eagles Week 17 game against Dallas, Brown was dominant. Brown was thrown at five times, allowed nine yards, and intercepted a pass.

6. Chris Johnson, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 49 attempts, 5.39 YPA, 53.06 Forced INC%, 1 TD, 3 INTs

My two cents: Where the heck did this guy come from? Who Knows Rolling Eyes After the releasing of DeAngelo Hall, Chris Johnson stepped in and dominated opposing WRs. Johnson had some of the best numbers in the NFL and if not for limited playing time he would be ranked even higher. Many people probably just looked at the box score during a Week 16 victory over Houston and thought it was Nnamdi Asomugha who shutdown Andre Johnson. While Asomugha didn’t allow a catch in that game, Johnson had an equally impressive afternoon. Johnson was thrown at seven times, allowed four yards, and intercepted a pass. In fact, the four yards that Johnson allowed were the only yards yielded by an Oakland CB that game.

7. Ron Bartell, St. Louis Rams
Season Totals: 93 attempts, 5.77 YPA, 48.39 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 3 INTs

My two cents: People need to start taking notice of Ron Bartell. He isn’t a big name and he plays on a bad team with a bad defense, but it’s not because of him. Not only has Bartell played well, but he has played well while being surrounded by guys who probably shouldn’t even be in the league. The Rams have already announced they have signing Bartell as a priority this offseason, his numbers show why.

8. Carlos Rogers, Washington Redskins
Season Totals: 105 attempts, 5.69 YPA, 47.62 Forced INC%, 4 TDs, 2 INTs

My two cents: It’s a shame that his playing time was cut down after the acquisition of the horrible DeAngelo Hall, and when Shawn Springs got healthy. I don’t understand how the Redskins could put guys like Hall and Fred Smoot on the field before this guy. Despite being thrown at 105 times (3rd most in NFL) Rogers held his own. His low YPA and high forced incompletion percentage should earn him respect from around the league.

9. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City Chiefs
Season Totals: 66 attempts, 4.83 YPA, 34.85 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 2 INTs

My two cents: Meet the best CB from the 2008 draft class. Brandon Flowers had a ridiculously good rookie season. His 4.83 YPA is especially impressive when you consider that the Chiefs had the worst pass rush in the NFL. Flowers is the perfect example of how overrated speed is at the CB position. Sure it’s nice to be able to turn and run, but technique will always be the thing that separates good CBs from average CBs. A 4.55 40 yard-dash time means he is probably slower than almost every WR he has to cover. You might be looking at a top five CB if Flowers can continue to get better.

10. Samari Rolle, Baltimore Ravens
Season Totals: 44 attempts, 4.07 YPA, 52.27 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 3 INTs

My two cents: Rolle only played in ten games thanks to a leg injury. He played so well in those ten games that I just couldn’t leave him out of my top ten. Only Corey Webster had a lower YPA and he was one of seven CBs to post a forced incompletion percentage of over 50%. If he didn’t miss those six games and played as well as he did in his ten starts, he would have been a top 5 CB without a doubt.

11. Stanford Routt, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 40 attempts, 5.33 YPA, 50.00 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 0 INTs

My two cents: Stanford Routt greatly improved this season. He teamed up with Nnamdi Asomugha and Chris Johnson to give the Raiders the best CB trio in the NFL. He only had 40 passes thrown at him playing only in passing situations, so I’m not ready to crown him a great CB. Even though he was a nickel back, he still had numbers worthy of praise.

12. Kelvin Hayden, Indianapolis Colts
Season Totals: 42 attempts, 6.21 YPA, 45.24 Forced INC%, 1 TD, 3 INTs

My two cents: It really is a shame that this guy missed six games. Hayden played great football when he was actually on the field. It’s hard to judge cover two CBs but Hayden just stood out on film. Hayden allowed 261 yards and one TD on the season, 90 of the yards and the TD came against Calvin Johnson. When Hayden is healthy he is clearly the best cover two CB in the NFL.

13. Quentin Jammer, San Diego Chargers
Season Totals: 85 attempts, 5.95 YPA, 38.82 Forced INC%, 4 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Jammer had an inconsistent, but solid season. He got torched by the Chiefs and Falcons, but played great against the Colts and Patriots. At the end of the season Jammer ended up with some very impressive numbers. He is far from a ball hawk picking off just one pass in 85 attempts, but his impressive YPA and solid forced incompletion percentage was good enough to earn him a spot in the top 15.

14. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Arizona Cardinals
Season Totals: 76 attempts, 6.41 YPA, 43.42 Forced INC%, 4 TDs, 4 INTs

My two cents: Rodgers-Cromartie was forced into extensive action when starting CB Eric Green couldn’t seem to stay healthy. Over his last eight games Rodgers-Cromartie played lights out. Let’s look at his numbers over the last half of the season: 4.81 YPA, 45.83 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 4 INTs. That is exactly what you want out of your rookies, steady improvement. If Rodgers-Cromartie can carry the momentum of his second half into next season, he should be playing in the Pro Bowl as an NFL Sophomore.

15. Antoine Winfield, Minnesota Vikings
Season Totals: 63 attempts, 6.27 YPA, 39.68 Forced INC%, 3 TDs, 2 INTs

My two cents: Since Winfield is a very good CB I feel weird calling him overrated, but he absolutely is. He certainly didn’t deserve a free trip to Hawaii. I understand that people like him because he is only 5’9” and willing to sacrifice his body to make tackles, believe me, I get it. We are constantly reminded of it every time he makes a tackle. He is without a doubt one of the better tackling CBs in the league, but he’s not the best. Sheldon Brown, Nate Clements, and Dunta Robinson are all better tacklers than Winfield. Winfield had a great season, but it wasn’t as good as people seem to think.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I don't want to hear about the Hall of Fame after a damn rookie ever.
You can come back in 5 years and brag about him. But, please. Greatest cb
ever? Put the pipe down and post when you sober up and he makes 8-10
pro bowls. Everybody said similiar things about A.Cromartie last year. Not
too hot this year eh?

I agree 100%. The proof is in the performance, not in the potential.