Dimitroff on BB and 'system specific scouting'

[SVN]

Patriots could promote Caserio to replace Pioli as GM | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

Thomas Dimitroff, who left his job as Patriots’ director of college scouting a year ago to become general manager of the Atlanta Falcons, credited Pioli with teaching him the intricacies — and value — of “system specific scouting.”

As described in Dimitroff’s bio in the Falcons’ media guide, system specific scouting places importance on “knowing the proper needs of your team and scouting players to fit the coach’s system.”

Dimitroff also credited Belichick for being instrumental in preparing him to become a GM. The Falcons’ guide notes that: “Belichick preached the concepts of team to a whole new level and indisputable role understanding, where everyone in an organization plays to their strengths and concentrates on doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. Belichick’s intelligence and forward thinking, coupled with organizational creativity, left its mark on Dimitroff.”

 

[ALP]

falcons prob stole away our contingency plan last yr for pioli.....lol, thiss sucks, but sure makes me proud to be pats fan

 

[Lansdowne]

Further proof that Bill Belichick is the greatest head coach of all-time.

 

[bizarroAndres]

lets not get carried away

 

[DarrylS]

I fully expect Caserio to ascend to the role that was Pioli's... at one time thought that I would like to work for Parcells for a year, but now hands down BB is the man.. the more we know the more there is to like. Of course Florio and the rest of the talking heads will all be surprised, but we know different.

 

[Clonamery]

lets not get carried away

...he's in the argument.

 

[signbabybrady]

Those comments are interesting....Just shows you how thorough BB is....he is teaching front office underlings and the like.

 

[JSn]

Those comments are interesting....Just shows you how thorough BB is....he is teaching front office underlings and the like.

You also have to wonder if Bill will do the Parcells at some point and manage teams, or if he'd rather stay put until he retires.

 

[signbabybrady]

You also have to wonder if Bill will do the Parcells at some point and manage teams, or if he'd rather stay put until he retires.

I can't say that BB will always stay put but as long as he is in football I can't picture him not coaching. Maybe its that his father pretty much coached his entire life or maybe its someting else but I just see him as a coach.

 

[DGameguy]

You also have to wonder if Bill will do the Parcells at some point and manage teams, or if he'd rather stay put until he retires.

I mean, he kind of already is in that he holds final football operations decision-making powers, it's just that he coaches, too.

I think it will be hard for him to leave coaching, it has to be different watching the game from the owner's box than down on the field, and I know he loves teaching his players.

 

[Tunescribe]

Once the Patriots formula for success gets spread throughout the league via people like Dimitroff, Pioli and McDaniels, I wonder if it will compromise the Pats' competitive advantage.

 

[spacecrime]

System specific. Great word choice.

System specific explains very well why there was never a chance of Culpepper being a Patriot, and perhaps why the Pats seem to go for quick CBs rather than tall CBs. Change of direction are perhaps more important than height to BB. or maybe it is something else.

Or maybe it is something else and BB will draft a 6'5" CB in April. We don't know, but BB sure does!

 

[Metaphors]

Once the Patriots formula for success gets spread throughout the league via people like Dimitroff, Pioli and McDaniels, I wonder if it will compromise the Pats' competitive advantage.

I don't think so. The analogy I like to use is that putting together a team is like assembling a 5000 piece puzzle with 50 people. You have to know what the final picture looks like, communicate that to everyone, give everyone a digestable part of the project and make sure they know how their part interacts with those around them.

And that is just to be competitive. You still have to get lucky and find that key piece in the picture that ties all the other parts together (and hope that Bernard Pollard doesn't eat the piece before you can use it). So while the Falcons and Chiefs have the formula, I'm not sure that it will translate into the same result.

 

[JSn]

System specific. Great word choice.

Lombardi talks about this (related to Pioli and BB) in the post. Makes a LOT of sense in any business model.

The National Football Post | National Football Post Diner News

Some of the coaches who have left Belichick have not done as well as predicted, but what happens is that many of them don’t understand how to work the program and how important it is to have a keen eye for talent with regard to the program. Everyone asks me, “What is the ‘Program’?” It starts with defining what you want to become as a football team and then it has ways to develop that talent in both players and coaches. Where other Belichick coaches fail — and where Pioli must make the right hire — is that they are unable to evaluate and project talent and do not know how to develop it for their specific team. Pioli may bring in a very bright young player, but if the new coach he picks doesn’t recognize the talent, or relies on an assistant coach to make the evaluation, the whole program goes to hell. The talent is brought in, then the head coach evaluates it as it relates to the NFL, and the assistant coaches develop it, without the final say on the evaluation. The assistants’ job is to teach and develop, not evaluate. Everyone has a job, and no one is bigger than his job.

 

[signbabybrady]

Lombardi talks about this (related to Pioli and BB) in the post. Makes a LOT of sense in any business model.

The National Football Post | National Football Post Diner News

That was an interesting read and makes you wonder if Crennell and Mangini's problems related more to a GM and football operations that were not on the same page. In Pioli's case he will be able to hire a coach who is on the same page Mangini and Crennell did not get to chose their GM.

 

[Tunescribe]

I don't think so. The analogy I like to use is that putting together a team is like assembling a 5000 piece puzzle with 50 people. You have to know what the final picture looks like, communicate that to everyone, give everyone a digestable part of the project and make sure they know how their part interacts with those around them.

And that is just to be competitive. You still have to get lucky and find that key piece in the picture that ties all the other parts together (and hope that Bernard Pollard doesn't eat the piece before you can use it). So while the Falcons and Chiefs have the formula, I'm not sure that it will translate into the same result.

Well, I was about to say that all things being equal (organizational/personnel philosophy/system), it then comes down to Xs and 0s and motivation. What you seem to be saying is that a star quarterback is integral. Atlanta, for example, has one in the making, and McDaniels might have that in Denver. The key component is player procurement philosophy and a pre-specified value placed on every roster spot, an approach Pioli now will employ in Kansas City and McDaniels presumably will have in Denver. Dimitroff has it in place in Atlanta. If Denver and Kansas City show quick improvement as I expect they will, the "Patriot Way" will no longer reside only in Foxboro. I guess I'm only slightly puzzled why Tubby Ratfink failed so miserably with the Green Beans. I suppose Tannenbaum shares some blame there.

 

[JSn]

I guess I'm only slightly puzzled why Tubby Ratfink failed so miserably with the Green Beans. I suppose Tannenbaum shares some blame there.

I suspect Tanny has a WHOLE LOT to do with the failures there. We might think we're seeing a whole different Mangina in Cleveland over the next couple of years.

 

[Tunescribe]

I suspect Tanny has a WHOLE LOT to do with the failures there. We might think we're seeing a whole different Mangina in Cleveland over the next couple of years.

Tubby must have done a good job of selling that to Lerner. I wonder if he blamed this season's debacle on Favre and stressed to Lerner that he never wanted him and argued to keep Pennington.

I liked this bit from the Lombardi stuff:

"There is no way to guarantee Pioli will be a success. The longtime Bill Belichick right-hand man might be as fraudulent as Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weis, Eric Mangini and the other Belichick clones who failed once they left the Patriots coach’s shadow and cashed in. I like Pioli — a lot. He’s young, confident, disciplined, smart and he’s certainly been in the right organization. But when it comes to the Patriots and success, we just don’t know where Belichick ends and everybody else begins. The Patriots are like the Jackson 5, and Belichick is Michael Jackson. Crennel and Weis proved to be Tito and Jackie."

 

[Metaphors]

What you seem to be saying is that a star quarterback is integral. Atlanta, for example, has one in the making, and McDaniels might have that in Denver.

While my post implied a quarterback, my intent wasn't limited to that position. My point was that the Patriot model depends to a certain extent on luck. You get intelligent players that you hope will develop beyond their evaluated ceiling. You can hit it big at any position and it can take your team to the next level. You hit it big at QB and you see what happens.

The key component is player procurement philosophy and a pre-specified value placed on every roster spot, an approach Pioli now will employ in Kansas City and McDaniels presumably will have in Denver. Dimitroff has it in place in Atlanta.

The value system gets you a balanced and competitive roster. You need players that can (scouting/evaluation) and do (coaching) exceed their assigned value to reach the level of success the Pats have enjoyed. The league rules are set up to discourage consistent success, particularly in the playoffs where depth and experience are crucial.

If Denver and Kansas City show quick improvement as I expect they will, the "Patriot Way" will no longer reside only in Foxboro. I guess I'm only slightly puzzled why Tubby Ratfink failed so miserably with the Green Beans. I suppose Tannenbaum shares some blame there.

Not sure why you include Denver and NY (now Cleveland) in your statement. Pioli and Dimitroff had responsibilities in scouting and player acquisition. To my knowledge Mangini and McDaniels never did. Why do you think they would be able to (or even be asked to) put an organizational philosophy in place in Cleveland and Denver?

 

[Synovia]

The league rules are set up to discourage consistent success, particularly in the playoffs where depth and experience are crucial.

I'm not sure thats true. How many years have the Pats, Colts, Eagles, Steelers, etc, been sitting at or near the top of the league?


These teams are able to consistently lock up top tier talent at the end of the 1st round for very little money, while teams that draft higher pay much more for similar talent.

The saints gave Reggie Bush $50m over 6 years, while Maroney and Addai both got in the range of $8m over 5 years.

They're similar talents, but the better teams got much better values. If Maroney/Addai gets hurt/busts/etc, you lose a player, but it doesn't constrain you. Reggie bush's 9M a year cap hit certainly affects the saint's personnel decisions.



The system is supposed to push teams back towards the middle, but I'm not sure it actually does that.