Cassel and the CBA

[Miguel]

Would it make sense for the Pats to do a 2 year deal to lower a potential cap hit in 09?

Yes.

I just do not see a 2-year deal without a signing bonus upfront as a win deal for Cassel who just can deal with being tagged.

 

[Miguel]

Wouldn't that - or any deal w any significant guaranteed upfront money - make Cassel pretty much untradeable as a Patriot then?

Yes.

Whatever signing bonus money we give him, we have to incur that much in a cap hit if we trade him, correct?

yes.

My point was to illlustrate that the details of the deal do matter.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Another team can immediately convert the one-year franchise tag into a multi-year contract, allowing a lower salary cap figure than the ~$14mm cap fee. Say, for example, Cassel signed a four-year, $50mm deal, with $20mm guaranteed bonuses and salaries of $6mm, $7mm, $8mm, and $9mm. His cap figure under this hypothetical approach would be $6mm salary + $5mm bonus recognition = $11mm, or ~$3mm less than the franchise figure, in 2009. The acquiring team need not recognize the $14mm franchise figure.

Thanks. ALways appreciate your understanding.

I would re-word this slightly: "the team that trades for him would not be under an obligation to honor the franchise tender contract." I have to double-check the relevant portion of the CBA, but they would have to have enough cap room to take whatever contract Cassel signed with the Pats first, but could then sign him to a new contract.

 

[BradyManny]

Yes.



yes.

My point was to illlustrate that the details of the deal do matter.

OK, gotcha.

 

[Water Boy]

Yes.

I just do not see a 2-year deal without a signing bonus upfront as a win deal for Cassel who just can deal with being tagged.

Can a contract be structured to have garaunteed salary w/o bonus that would pay hypothetically $8 million in '09 and $12 million in 2010? Didn't the Pats offer Ty Law a 4 year $24 million garaunteed contract? Assuming Cassell was eventually traded under this scenario, wouldn't his salary be wiped from the cap.

 

[Miguel]

Can a contract be structured to have garaunteed salary w/o bonus that would pay hypothetically $8 million in '09 and $12 million in 2010?

It would have to be $8 million in 2009 and $10.4 million in 2010 to comply with the 30% rule.

Didn't the Pats offer Ty Law a 4 year $24 million garaunteed contract?

They never did. Every offer I heard that the Pats offer Law gave Ty a signing bonus immediately.

Assuming Cassell was eventually traded under this scenario, wouldn't his salary be wiped from the cap.

Yes. But what makes this deal a win matter for Cassel over simply going out in free agency under the franchise tag??

Right now, Cassel is not under contract for the 2009 season. What is it in for him to sign a deal that would make it easy to keep on the Patriots roster as an insurance policy for Brady??for him to take a deal that would pay him less in two years than he would probably get as an UFA??

 

[Miguel]

Right now, Cassel is not under contract for the 2009 season. What is it in for him to sign a deal that would make it easy to keep on the Patriots roster as an insurance policy for Brady??for him to take a deal that would pay him less in two years than he would probably get as an UFA??

Also, there are plenty of QB-needy teams with a great deal of 2009 cap space so Cassel does not need to have a lower 2009 cap number in order to have a lively market for his services.

 

[spacecrime]

Can a contract be structured to have garaunteed salary w/o bonus that would pay hypothetically $8 million in '09 and $12 million in 2010?

How would the negotiations work?

"Hey, Matt, we just franchised you and you will earn $14.4 million dollars this year and next year you'll be a free agent and can get a $20 mil signing bonus. But check this out, instead of making $14 mil this year, we will pay you $8 mil. Plus, you won't be a free agent next year, either. Instead of the $20 mil you could get on the open market next year, we'll pay you $12 mil. Whaddaya say?"

 

[Miguel]

How would the negotiations work?

"Hey, Matt, we just franchised you and you will earn $14.4 million dollars this year and next year you'll be a free agent and can get a $20 mil signing bonus. But check this out, instead of making $14 mil this year, we will pay you $8 mil. Plus, you won't be a free agent next year, either. Instead of the $20 mil you could get on the open market next year, we'll pay you $12 mil. Whaddaya say?"

Excellent illustration of the points that I have been making.

Even if the negotiations started BEFORE Cassel was tagged, IMO, it is not a win-win for Cassel to agree to a two-year deal that does not pay him an immediate signing bonus.

Patriots:
Hey, Matt. We both know that if you are not tagged that you will be signed to a big contract within minutes of the advent of free agency. Since we would like to make it easier for us to keep you on our roster as a backup/insurance policy, we want you to sign a two-year deal. Under that deal your 2009 salary would be $9 million and your 2010 salary would be $11.7 million for a two-year total of $20.7 million. How about it???

Matt: Any signing bonus.
Patriots:No.
Why would Matt then agree to such a deal?? Asking Matt to take such a deal implies that the Pats can not afford to place the tag on him. Cassel would be better off joining a team that did not give up draft picks to get him.

 

[Miguel]

1.) As soon as the Patriots place the franchise tag on Cassel, the amount of the franchise tag (I project it to be $14.651 million) will immediately count against the Patriots cap. That is, Cassel does NOT have to sign the tender in order for it to count against the cap.
2.) If the Pats tag Cassel and wish to reach a long-term deal with him, they and Cassel have to come to the long-term agreement by 4PM, July 15th.
3.) If the Patriots tag Cassel and wish to trade him after July 15th, Cassel has to sign the franchise tender before 4PM July 15th. I got this information from reading about the 49ers' tampering with Briggs in 2007.
4.) If Cassel were to sign a two-year deal with the Patriots, his 2010 salary can not be more than 130% of his 2009 salary. Example, if his 2009 salary is $1,000,000 then his 2010 salary can not be more than $1,300,000.
5.) If Cassel were to sign a two-year deal with the Patriots, any 2010 off-season roster bonus and any 2010 off-season reporting bonus would be treating as a signing bonus in 2009
6.) If 2010 is uncapped and Cassel had signed an one-year deal for the 2009 season, he would be an RFA in 2010.
7.) If Cassel is an RFA in 2010, the Patriots' tender offer has to be at least 110% of his 2009 salary. 110% of $14.651 million is $16,116,000.
8.) The first day that Cassel can be tagged is February 5th.
9.) The last day that Cassel can be tagged is February 19th.
10.) The first day that Cassel can be traded is February 27th
11.) As soon as Cassel signs the tender and if he plays under the tender his 2009 salary is guaranteed to be the amount of the tender even if he is injured or if there are far better quarterbacks on the Patriots roster.
12.) If Cassel plays the 2009 season under the franchise tender, the maximum his agent can charge him is 2%. If Cassel plays the 2009 season under any other deal, the maximum his agent can charge is 3%.
13.) If Cassel is tagged, he has to first sign his tender before he can be officially traded.
14.) If Cassel is tagged and if he has not signed the tender and if the Patriots rescind the tender after July 22nd, they will not get a compensatory pick for Cassel in 2010. Source - Corey Simon and the Eagles in 2006.

 

[Fencer]

7.) If Cassel is an RFA in 2010, the Patriots' tender offer has to be at least 110% of his 2009 salary. 110% of $14.651 million is $16,116,000.

Oh, crumb. That takes a lot of the Pats' leverage away.

Great work as usual, Miguel.

 

[spacecrime]

11.) As soon as Cassel signs the tender and if he plays under the tender his 2009 salary is guaranteed to be the amount of the tender even if he is injured or if there are far better quarterbacks on the Patriots roster.

He has to play for the salary to be guaranteed? Signing isn't enough?

 

[Water Boy]

Excellent illustration of the points that I have been making.

Even if the negotiations started BEFORE Cassel was tagged, IMO, it is not a win-win for Cassel to agree to a two-year deal that does not pay him an immediate signing bonus.

Patriots:
Hey, Matt. We both know that if you are not tagged that you will be signed to a big contract within minutes of the advent of free agency. Since we would like to make it easier for us to keep you on our roster as a backup/insurance policy, we want you to sign a two-year deal. Under that deal your 2009 salary would be $9 million and your 2010 salary would be $11.7 million for a two-year total of $20.7 million. How about it???

Matt: Any signing bonus.
Patriots:No.
Why would Matt then agree to such a deal?? Asking Matt to take such a deal implies that the Pats can not afford to place the tag on him. Cassel would be better off joining a team that did not give up draft picks to get him.

Thanks for working this through with me. I get it now.

 

[Miguel]

He has to play for the salary to be guaranteed? Signing isn't enough?

He just has to sign the tender. If he signs and gets hurt in a mini-camp, he gets the money. If he signs and the Pats have better QBs on the roster so they release him to use a roster spot on another position, he gets the money.

 

[Miguel]

1.) As soon as the Patriots place the franchise tag on Cassel, the amount of the franchise tag (I project it to be $14.651 million) will immediately count against the Patriots cap. That is, Cassel does NOT have to sign the tender in order for it to count against the cap.
2.) If the Pats tag Cassel and wish to reach a long-term deal with him, they and Cassel have to come to the long-term agreement by 4PM, July 15th.
3.) If the Patriots tag Cassel and wish to trade him after July 15th, Cassel has to sign the franchise tender before 4PM July 15th. I got this information from reading about the 49ers' tampering with Briggs in 2007.
4.) If Cassel were to sign a two-year deal with the Patriots, his 2010 salary can not be more than 130% of his 2009 salary. Example, if his 2009 salary is $1,000,000 then his 2010 salary can not be more than $1,300,000.
5.) If Cassel were to sign a two-year deal with the Patriots, any 2010 off-season roster bonus and any 2010 off-season reporting bonus would be treating as a signing bonus in 2009
6.) If 2010 is uncapped and Cassel had signed an one-year deal for the 2009 season, he would be an RFA in 2010.
7.) If Cassel is an RFA in 2010, the Patriots' tender offer has to be at least 110% of his 2009 salary. 110% of $14.651 million is $16,116,000.
8.) The first day that Cassel can be tagged is February 5th.
9.) The last day that Cassel can be tagged is February 19th.
10.) The first day that Cassel can be traded is February 27th
11.) As soon as Cassel signs the tender and if he plays under the tender his 2009 salary is guaranteed to be the amount of the tender even if he is injured or if there are far better quarterbacks on the Patriots roster.
12.) If Cassel plays the 2009 season under the franchise tender, the maximum his agent can charge him is 2%. If Cassel plays the 2009 season under any other deal, the maximum his agent can charge is 3%.
13.) If Cassel is tagged, he has to first sign his tender before he can be officially traded.
14.) If Cassel is tagged and if he has not signed the tender and if the Patriots rescind the tender after July 22nd, they will not get a compensatory pick for Cassel in 2010. Source - Corey Simon and the Eagles in 2006.

Bumping this thread as tomorrow is the 1st day that Cassel can be tagged.

 

[ayjackson]

He can begin shopping himself around as soon as he's tagged, no? We can have a few good weeks of rumours?

Or do we have to maintain some veil of intending to keep him until we see how Tom's recovery is going?

(I know this has been discussed ad nauseum, but I just need a refresher for what I may have missed.)

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

He can begin shopping himself around as soon as he's tagged, no? We can have a few good weeks of rumours?

Or do we have to maintain some veil of intending to keep him until we see how Tom's recovery is going?

(I know this has been discussed ad nauseum, but I just need a refresher for what I may have missed.)

Technically there will be no action before Feb 27 and the start of Free Agency, tampering rules you know.

 

[Clonamery]

Technically there will be no action before Feb 27 and the start of Free Agency, tampering rules you know.

....wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.

 

[cstjohn17]

11.) As soon as Cassel signs the tender and if he plays under the tender his 2009 salary is guaranteed to be the amount of the tender even if he is injured or if there are far better quarterbacks on the Patriots roster.
14.) If Cassel is tagged and if he has not signed the tender and if the Patriots rescind the tender after July 22nd, they will not get a compensatory pick for Cassel in 2010. Source - Corey Simon and the Eagles in 2006.

Thank you very much Miguel. More questions and I am afraid....

#11 - What does play under the tender mean? I thought as soon as the franchise is signed the money is garaunteed, even if the player is cut or injured.
#14 - Can the franchise be rescinded at any time? making him an UFA?

IMO I would rather use the $14.6 M to sign a premium free agent (Suggs or Asomugha) and extend Wilfork because realistically a trade won't occur until draft day leaving the free agent cupboard bare. This approach would cost the Pats a couple of draft picks. I love the draft but it is a crap shoot at best.

 

[BradyManny]

IMO I would rather use the $14.6 M to sign a premium free agent (Suggs or Asomugha) and extend Wilfork because realistically a trade won't occur until draft day leaving the free agent cupboard bare. This approach would cost the Pats a couple of draft picks. I love the draft but it is a crap shoot at best.

Disagree - the hype machine has been rolling for a while now, and Cassel has played his part well and gotten himself out in the open. Teams know he's available as of tomorrow, yes, there is the wink wink tampering issues, but Cassel could be gone by February 27th, freeing the Pats up to do whatever they want in free agency.

The hype has moved to a point where we've seen the option of a team actually obtaining Cassel outright in exchange for 2 firsts brought and up and discussed. A trade for Cassel will happen as fast the Pats let it happen.

As for extending Wilfork, they can have an agreement in place now and wait until the Cassel situation resolves itself.