Pioli + Cassel...futures intertwined?

[borg]

Reading the tea leaves and making crazy assumptions (Brady is healthy), Pioli and Cassel may just be a package deal.
Pioli seems to have dismissed the Browns overtures quite quickly, for reasons we may never know...but...one can assume that the roster situation in Cleveland was a negative. Beyond the me first mentality of several pass catchers, the QB roster seems set for at least a couple of years. I can't believe Pioli would be comfortable with either choice. If I was Pioli, I would rather jam a pen in my eye than allow Brady Quinn, with his Chad Pennington arm, to lead the offense. Throw in a meddling owner that would actually consider hiring the ManJudas....no wonder Pioli has moved on to KC.


The Chiefs, on the other hand, are a team that need a solid house cleaning from top to bottom. It would be a given that he would hire a new Head Coach, clear out the malcontents (Larry Johnson), and begin molding the team his way. The big question becomes...How will he go about solidifying the QB situation. Thigpen was a 55% passer last year and could be seen as a transition QB if KC decides to go #1 for a college QB (3rd pick).


I have to believe that a Pioli led KC team will pass on drafting a QB this early. BB and Pioli together have proven that this roster spot can get filled without risking the ridiculous cash given to the college neophytes. Such a high draft pick is worthy of a very large freaks of nature, a commodity difficult to find (Isn't this what we have been taught over the last 8 years...by BB and Pioli).


No question, the KC fanbase will be clamoring for Bradford (assuming Stafford goes first and Bradford comes out), but Pioli could put his stamp on this team immediately by trading down, collecting picks, and eventually trading for Cassel. Bradford may not be worthy of such a high slot, but the QB position is very thin once Bradford gets picked up. Teams that need a starter may have to overpay. Regardless, Pioli won't spend $40+ mill on potential.


One thing is for certain, Cassel is not potential...he is bonafide. And, he may be a more cost effctive solution at this position, particulary when viewed as the day 1 starter verses the learn from the bench approach for many new QBs.
I know I have yet to explain my conspiracy theory regarding a package deal of Pioli/Cassel...so here goes...I find it both interesting and quite coincidental that someone has been floating the story that Cassel will be franchised, nearly 2 months before necessary). Assuming that the Patriots are responsible for the leak, it becomes clear that BB wants the other teams to know that he is in control of the situation and wants to accelerate the process ( in order to minimize the dead money time that the franchise tag will eat up). Allowing Pioli to obtain Cassel early on benefits all parties. KC gets their QB early (using a 2nd plus a future pick is my prediction), Pioli solidifies this roster spot and retains draft flexibility, the Patriots control Cassel's destination, achieve appropriate compensation, and most importantly, minimize the dead money cap space that gets tied up if a prolonged frachise squabble ensues. You know BB would prefer to hit the ground running during free agency.

In my world, this is a win win win situation for all involved.

 

[mgteich]

In the end, the bottom line is that you believe that Pioli would pay higher than other bidders for Cassel.

In the end, many teams would do better giving a 2009 second or a 2010 first for Cassel instead of drafting a QB in the first round.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

In the end, adding simple formatting like line breaks or indention's to a lengthy post make it more readable. :singing:

 

[borg]

In the end, adding simple formatting like line breaks or indention's to a lengthy post make it more readable. :singing:

T h e r e y o u g o g r a m p a

 

[AzPatsFan]

Reading the tea leaves and making crazy assumptions (Brady is healthy), Pioli and Cassel may just be a package deal.
Pioli seems to have dismissed the Browns overtures quite quickly, for reasons we may never know...but...one can assume that the roster situation in Cleveland was a negative. Beyond the me first mentality of several pass catchers, the QB roster seems set for at least a couple of years. I can't believe Pioli would be comfortable with either choice. If I was Pioli, I would rather jam a pen in my eye than allow Brady Quinn, with his Chad Pennington arm, to lead the offense. Throw in a meddling owner that would actually consider hiring the ManJudas....no wonder Pioli has moved on to KC.


The Chiefs, on the other hand, are a team that need a solid house cleaning from top to bottom. It would be a given that he would hire a new Head Coach, clear out the malcontents (Larry Johnson), and begin molding the team his way. The big question becomes...How will he go about solidifying the QB situation. Thigpen was a 55% passer last year and could be seen as a transition QB if KC decides to go #1 for a college QB (3rd pick).


I have to believe that a Pioli led KC team will pass on drafting a QB this early. BB and Pioli together have proven that this roster spot can get filled without risking the ridiculous cash given to the college neophytes. Such a high draft pick is worthy of a very large freaks of nature, a commodity difficult to find (Isn't this what we have been taught over the last 8 years...by BB and Pioli).


No question, the KC fanbase will be clamoring for Bradford (assuming Stafford goes first and Bradford comes out), but Pioli could put his stamp on this team immediately by trading down, collecting picks, and eventually trading for Cassel. Bradford may not be worthy of such a high slot, but the QB position is very thin once Bradford gets picked up. Teams that need a starter may have to overpay. Regardless, Pioli won't spend $40+ mill on potential.


One thing is for certain, Cassel is not potential...he is bonafide. And, he may be a more cost effective solution at this position, particularly when viewed as the day 1 starter verses the learn from the bench approach for many new QBs.
I know I have yet to explain my conspiracy theory regarding a package deal of Pioli/Cassel...so here goes...I find it both interesting and quite coincidental that someone has been floating the story that Cassel will be franchised, nearly 2 months before necessary). Assuming that the Patriots are responsible for the leak, it becomes clear that BB wants the other teams to know that he is in control of the situation and wants to accelerate the process ( in order to minimize the dead money time that the franchise tag will eat up). Allowing Pioli to obtain Cassel early on benefits all parties. KC gets their QB early (using a 2nd plus a future pick is my prediction), Pioli solidifies this roster spot and retains draft flexibility, the Patriots control Cassel's destination, achieve appropriate compensation, and most importantly, minimize the dead money cap space that gets tied up if a prolonged frachise squabble ensues. You know BB would prefer to hit the ground running during free agency.

In my world, this is a win win win situation for all involved.

No BB does NOT hit the ground running in FAs. He lets the fools rush in and overspend unsustainably. If anything, he collects the players that are subsequently dumped when their overpriced salaries are pinching and recognized a year or three later.

I would even make a bet that the Pats do not sign a single high-priced "so-called Prime free agent" this offseason, other than their own. So he is in no hurry. He will sign the "usual suspects" of reasonable-priced ex-starter FA who want a ring, and come inexpensively. And hope to find one or two contributors.

The best part of the KC Chiefs is that they DO NOT need a thorough house cleaning. It has already been going on for three years and major pieces are in place. They have a young LOT, a star WR, RB, and TE; a star MLB, a couple of young CBs, and the beginnings of a rebuilt Offensive line.

So two years of tear down and build up, are already finished. You could draft an Andre Smith #3, and try to trade for Cassel, and the Offense is NFL quality. (I'll bet BB wants that #3 and this season) Spend the rest of the draft on D and your more than half way there. :rocker:

 

[borg]

No BB does NOT hit the ground running in FAs. He lets the fools rush in and overspend unsustainably. If anything, he collects the players that are subsequently dumped when their overpriced salaries are pinching and recognized a year or three later.

I would even make a bet that the Pats do not sign a single high-priced "so-called Prime free agent" this offseason, other than their own. So he is in no hurry. He will sign the "usual suspects" of reasonable-priced ex-starter FA who want a ring, and come inexpensively. And hope to find one or two contributors.

The best part of the KC Chiefs is that they DO NOT need a thorough house cleaning. It has already been going on for three years and major pieces are in place. They have a young LOT, a star WR, RB, and TE; a star MLB, a couple of young CBs, and the beginnings of a rebuilt Offensive line.

So two years of tear down and build up, are already finished. You could draft an Andre Smith #3, and try to trade for Cassel, and the Offense is NFL quality. (I'll bet BB wants that #3 and this season) Spend the rest of the draft on D and your more than half way there. :rocker:

In 2003, BB signed Colvin and Rodney out of the gates(April 11 and 13 respectively). 2002 and 2008 are very similar... the Patriots didn't make the playoffs in 2002 after winning the 2001 SB...so BB identified the teams weaknesses and addressed them early in FA.

Your view on KC's future is rosier than mine. In fact, they dismissed their GM of duties because the roster was so bare. Having 4 or 5 solid pieces is not a base. Remember, KC was dominated in the weakest division in the AFC.
I'm not sure what RB you are referring to considering that Johnson had 874 yds this season , acted the malcontent part effectively, and is wishing his way out of KC. The 2nd leading rusher was Thigpen. Not much of a base at this position. As far as Tony Gonzalez is concerned, despite having 3 years left on his contract, it is possible he won't want to be part of a rebuiding project during the twilight of his career and asked to be traded. I like Bowe alot and can't argue about his roster spot.

 

[DarrylS]

(I'll bet BB wants that #3 and this season) Spend the rest of the draft on D and your more than half way there.

I would guess that BB would like to have a #3, but he will not spend the money on him.. the cash for a #3 would upset the salary structure of this team.. case in point he traded down from a #7 to #10 to get Mayo last year and there was less cost for the same product..

My guess is no matter where Cassell goes in a trade that the pats will be content with #2's..not #1's.

 

[cstjohn17]

I will be honest length of the post was too much for my simple mind, I didn't read beyond the title.

It could also have the reverse impact (although unlikely), lets say Pioli goes to a QB hungry team and makes no attempt to procure Cassel. Maybe teams will think that SP doesn't think highly of him and it may lower his trade value. Unlikely but maybe.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

but Pioli could put his stamp on this team immediately by trading down, collecting picks, and eventually trading for Cassel.

It can't happen that way (well it could, but it won't)

The trade for Cassel will have to come way before the draft. The last I read the Pats have about $19M in cap space for next year. If they have to eat $14M for almost 2 months, there would be no Free Agents, they probably wouldn't have enough to re-sign our own guys.

The entire Franchise and Trade scenario would have to play out in just a matter of days. Free agency starts March 1, the whole thing needs to be done by the 8th, or they may have to pull the tag and let him go.

That is, unless they create some serious space with an unexpected vet cut or a couple of major re-structures.

 

[BradyBranch39]

Personally, I think KC has their quarterback. Would cassel be an upgrade? Yes. An upgrade worth $10M+ per year? No.

 

[Deus Irae]

Personally, I think KC has their quarterback. Would cassel be an upgrade? Yes. An upgrade worth $10M+ per year? No.

Thigpen's completion percentage was less than 55%, and his passer rating was only 76, finishing only 27th out of 32 qualifying quarterbacks. Only Frerotte, Orlovsky, Bulger, Fitzpatrick and Anderson were worse.

He may be 'their quarterback', but that's got to be a very iffy "may".

 

[mgcolby]

I have a hard time believing that a #1 for Cassel isn't out there. The Lions could potentially draft a franchise LT with the first pick and trade for a franchise QB with the 20th. Why wouldn't you do that? And if your answer is: "well they are the lions stupid". then I see your point, but Minny is another option.

Sign a guy like Housh to be the #1 with Berrian as the #2. Trade the 23rd pick for Cassel and suddenly you have a SB caliber offense.

Bottom line I would be shocked if the Pats don't get a first round pick for him. This season proved how QB starved the league is. outside of the usual suspects in the top 10 St Louis, KC etc... I could see also see the Bears making a play for him at 18 or even the Bucs at 19. Again just to many teams that need a quality QB to not have someone bite.

 

[borg]

Bump

Phase 1 of the master plan is complete. Pioil signed and sealed. Phase 2 under way. Don't let the media head fakes fool you, Cassel is heading to the midwest. Phase 3...I will make known my true identity.

 

[Tunescribe]

... lets say Pioli goes to a QB hungry team and makes no attempt to procure Cassel. Maybe teams will think that SP doesn't think highly of him and it may lower his trade value. Unlikely but maybe.

I was thinking this as well. Pioli could set the market for Cassel by acting or not acting. I'm still wondering why Pioli didn't lean on McDaniels to join him. I guess the timing for that just wasn't right.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bump

Phase 1 of the master plan is complete. Pioil signed and sealed. Phase 2 under way. Don't let the media head fakes fool you, Cassel is heading to the midwest. Phase 3...I will make known my true identity.

Will we all be assimilated?

 

[GostkowSKI]

Well, my mindset on this is that KC is way more than a QB away from being a Super Bowl contender, and therefore not in a position to be trading away multiple draft picks for Cassel.

Now, Minnesota on the other hand....

 

[billdog3484]

let's just hope Pioli is high on Cassel. I dont know how he couldnt be...

what about Cassel for this years 2nd round pick of the chiefs, i think 34 overall, and next years 2nd round pick (i cant imagine gettting next years first)

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Bump

Phase 1 of the master plan is complete. Pioil signed and sealed. Phase 2 under way. Don't let the media head fakes fool you, Cassel is heading to the midwest. Phase 3...I will make known my true identity.

So what's the Master Plan,to get the Pats more draft picks? :idontgetit:

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

In the end, the bottom line is that you believe that Pioli would pay higher than other bidders for Cassel.

In the end, many teams would do better giving a 2009 second or a 2010 first for Cassel instead of drafting a QB in the first round.

in the end Pioli will establish the market and then teams having a starting point to outbid each other.

Pioli gives cassel credibility on a trade not that he doesn't already have cred.

 

[mayoclinic]

Would you trade Cassel to KC for their second round pick (#34 or 35, I believe) and a conditional 2010 pick?

If I were SP I wouldn't try to destroy the framework of the team. They have some talent. Adding a pass-rushing DE along with a QB would put them in much better shape for 2009.