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OLB a need?


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I don't buy the sentiment that there isn't a legitimate passrusher out there in the 2009 draft. What makes this year's crop any weaker than others when in fact it's a pretty darn deep draft for linebackers? Either the draft is deep with good talent available, which I think it is, or it's shallow with slim pickings which is the way some people are talking.

Just because you haven't personally identified any good passrushers in the draft doesn't meant that they aren't out there. Luckily BB and his scouting staff will be doing the homework. And if they identify pressuring the QB as a high priority, and I think they will, don't be surprised to see one of these so called 'phantom' passrushers in a Pats uniform come 2009.

Do the Pats have players in the pipeline for OLB? Sure. But excuse me if I don't place all my faith in 2 practice squad walk ons and 2 young olb in Woods and Crable who have shown us close to nothing, not that the injuries were their fault, but that's how it stands. And please don't tell me we are set at linebacker when the Pats had to bring Seau out of retirement and picked up a jobless Rosevelt Colvin to get some warm bodies out there!
I certainly hope Pioli finds BB the studs you are speculating about, unfortunately I have no access to Pioli's files and can only use the draftnik sites, other's observations (allowing for my faith in their objectivity), and my own lying eyes to project prospects into a role for NE. I'm sure it doesn't help that I've never had much coaching experience and that was for a soccer club... I am having fun trying though and I welcome your efforts and player suggestions for discussion. :D
 
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But you also fail to realize that those two play is a different type of 3-4 system than the Pats.

I think this is the point that has been largely glossed over. In the Bum Phillips 3-4, the rush OLB has virtually no other duties on most plays. Running backs blow by them frequently, because they don't read the play to check run. Ware, as much as he would help New England, wouldn't be approaching 20 sacks in Belichick's defense. He'd probably get 8-12.
 
I guess I now don't see the Patriots spending a first rounder - especially a high or mid first rounder on a player that needs conversion. That's why they went with Crable in round 3 - at the price we're paying for him, there are a couple of years for him to develop.

But look at the 1st rounders BB has drafted lately. Mayo instantly started, Meriweather was in the nickel by the end of the season and is starting in year 2, Mankins was an instant starter, Maroney had a lot of carries his rookie year. (Scary I just realized they all start with M...maybe that's how we can figure out BB's drafting by ruling out the other 25 letters in the alphabet?@!)

Point being, first rounders are more expensive, first rounders have a smaller "development" window. Pats are all about value. They aren't going to draft a Gholston and pay him millions to get trained, they'd much sooner go grab a FA like Adalius, pay him just a little bit more, who can contribute immediately and/or draft a player with less upside a couple rounds later like Crable who is affordable enough to train & develop on their dime.
 
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I guess I now don't see the Patriots spending a first rounder - especially a high or mid first rounder on a player that needs conversion. That's why they went with Crable in round 3 - at the price we're paying for him, there are a couple of years for him to develop.

But look at the 1st rounders BB has drafted lately. Mayo instantly started, Meriweather was in the nickel by the end of the season and is starting in year 2, Mankins was an instant starter, Maroney had a lot of carries his rookie year. (Scary I just realized they all start with M...maybe that's how we can figure out BB's drafting by ruling out the other 25 letters in the alphabet?@!)

That bodes well for Clay Matthews, Ray Maualuga, Will Moore, and Taylor Mays.
 
if there is a stud available im sure we will go after that player. who knows what the market holds. all i know is we usually dont reach on players
 
I don't buy the sentiment that there isn't a legitimate passrusher out there in the 2009 draft. What makes this year's crop any weaker than others when in fact it's a pretty darn deep draft for linebackers? Either the draft is deep with good talent available, which I think it is, or it's shallow with slim pickings which is the way some people are talking.

Just because you haven't personally identified any good passrushers in the draft doesn't meant that they aren't out there. Luckily BB and his scouting staff will be doing the homework. And if they identify pressuring the QB as a high priority, and I think they will, don't be surprised to see one of these so called 'phantom' passrushers in a Pats uniform come 2009.

Do the Pats have players in the pipeline for OLB? Sure. But excuse me if I don't place all my faith in 2 practice squad walk ons and 2 young olb in Woods and Crable who have shown us close to nothing, not that the injuries were their fault, but that's how it stands. And please don't tell me we are set at linebacker when the Pats had to bring Seau out of retirement and picked up a jobless Rosevelt Colvin to get some warm bodies out there!


Please enlighten everyone on who these legitimate 3-4 OLB Pass Rushers are. There are some pretty damn intelligent people in this forum who watch the games and the consensus seems to be that there is no legitimate 3-4 OLB Pass Rusher in the draft. This draft is pretty weak for the 4-3 DE position in general, never mind a STUD sack specialst.

Things are NOT the way you describe them. Just because its a deep draft for the LBer position (more so ILB than OLB, btw) that doesn't mean there is a highly talented sack specialist in the draft. Its just means that there is a lot of talent. Particularly with the likes of Rey Maualuga, Aaron Curry, James Laurinitus, Brian Cushing, Clint Simtin, etc, etc.

What people like yourself don't seem to realize is that rushing the passer is just ONE phase of the game that the Patriots require from their OLB. That OLB needs to also be able to set the edge against the run and be able to drop back into coverage. There are a few OLBs in the draft who cold possible fit into that, but they aren't SACK SPECIALISTS by any stretch of the imagination.

What the Pats expect out of their OLBs is 3 things. That they can put pressure on the QB with the Pass Rush, that they can set the edge against the run, and that, if needed they can drop back into zone coverage on the TE or RB. Vrabel and McGinest were great at all three aspects. Colvin was excellent at rushing the passer, good at dropping into coverage and mediocre against the run, at least to start win. But he got a LOT better after his injury. Adalius Thomas was signed because of his versatility. He knows how to rush the passer, he can set the edge and he is very good in coverage.

No one is saying that the Patriots can't improve at OLB. People are saying that there are other priorities that are bigger and that, this draft and free agency may not provide someone who can help right away.
 
if there is a stud available im sure we will go after that player. who knows what the market holds. all i know is we usually dont reach on players


The OP was referring to the draft, not the free agency market.
 
We have Vrabel, Thomas, and Crable

We should have Colvin (probably), Woods (very likely), and Redd
We also have a couple of developmental youngsters for the Practice Squad

A poster on this thread called this our #1 need. I strongly disagree.

In fact, we may have enough stong personnel at OLB that we might consider moving one of the veterans inside from the beginning of the season, instead of waiting for an injury.

BTW, I don't think that Woods is a future starter, just a one-year fill in as others develop. However, he could step up (even in camp), and then be extended.

We needed Mayo and Guyton immediately. They were thrown in, and they stepped up. There is not the same need at OLB. However, Crable and Redd might develop well. And yes, if we have a top ten pick again in the future, we would hope to get a talent as good as Mayo.
 
We have Vrabel, Thomas, and Crable

We should have Colvin (probably), Woods (very likely), and Redd
We also have a couple of developmental youngsters for the Practice Squad

When we re-signed Colvin, I was excited at the prospect of him returning to 100% health now or in the near future, and perhaps re-signing him next year. One thing that does not necessarily bode well for that is the fact that Colvin has not been a part of nickel packages. To me, Colvin's strength is his pass rush, so physically, he must not be at the point where he is a threat in that role like he used to be.

I'd still bring him back for vet min or some 1-2 milli deal. Then we have the time to see how Crable, Redd, Roberston, etc. pans out before spending more picks on the position.
 
I don't know Colvin's limitations, but he is at least a valuable veteran situational player as one of our 5-6 OLB's.

When we re-signed Colvin, I was excited at the prospect of him returning to 100% health now or in the near future, and perhaps re-signing him next year. One thing that does not necessarily bode well for that is the fact that Colvin has not been a part of nickel packages. To me, Colvin's strength is his pass rush, so physically, he must not be at the point where he is a threat in that role like he used to be.

I'd still bring him back for vet min or some 1-2 milli deal. Then we have the time to see how Crable, Redd, Roberston, etc. pans out before spending more picks on the position.
 
In the next 2 years we are losing Vrabel, Bruschi, Woods, alexander, Redd at LB.

That leaves Crable and AD left on the outside. Even if Vrabel comes back I think he'll replace Bruschi at ILB.

I'm thinking OLB is a huge need this FA/draft
 
In the next 2 years we are losing Vrabel, Bruschi, Woods, alexander, Redd at LB.

That leaves Crable and AD left on the outside. Even if Vrabel comes back I think he'll replace Bruschi at ILB.

I'm thinking OLB is a huge need this FA/draft

Why would the Pats be losing Redd? He was a rookie this year. If the CBA isn't re-done, by rule, Redd can't be a UFA until he's got 6 years experience. So that means he's with the Pats for another 5 years or when he proves to the Pats he's not useful. Whichever comes first. The same with Robertson and Angelo Craig.

Alexander hasn't been on the field much the last 2 years. He's probably done.

Woods is a RFA this year. I can see the Pats bringing him back. And they could give him a longer deal depending on how they feel about him.
 
I see a trade up in our future.........


Rey Maualuga
 
I see a trade up in our future.........


Rey Maualuga

Why would the Patriots have to trade up to get Maualuga? Have you seen the depth of talent at LBer coming out this year? Not only that, there seems to be more and more truth to the idea that there will be a lot of juniors and even some red-shirt sophomores who are going to declare for the draft to ensure that they are negatively affected by the upcoming CBA negotiations.

There is an extremely good possibility that Maualuga or another highly talented PLAYER will be available when the Pats draft, not only at 24, but wherever the Chargers pick ends up being. Not to mention the good chance that the Patriots could get 1-3 picks for Cassel.
 
Say no more my friend.

Unfortunately, there is no Pass rushing demon in this draft who can come in and start right away for the Patriots.. Of course, the Patriots haven't ever had a true pass rushing demon because they tend to be one trick ponies incapable of holding their own against the run or dropping into coverage... Not the sort of player the Pats look for in their OLBs.

As was mentioned before, the Pats got consistent pressure on the opposing QBs when they could pass rush from any of the 4 LBer positions. Right now, they can't do that.
 
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Why would the Pats be losing Redd? He was a rookie this year. If the CBA isn't re-done, by rule, Redd can't be a UFA until he's got 6 years experience. So that means he's with the Pats for another 5 years or when he proves to the Pats he's not useful. Whichever comes first. The same with Robertson and Angelo Craig.

Alexander hasn't been on the field much the last 2 years. He's probably done.

Woods is a RFA this year. I can see the Pats bringing him back. And they could give him a longer deal depending on how they feel about him.

patscap has him terminating at 2008. Doesn't make much sense to me either.
 
patscap has him terminating at 2008. Doesn't make much sense to me either.
That's probably because he was signed off the Practice Squad to a one year deal - not a biggie, he's an ERFA for at least two more years under the current CBA, then an RFA for a total of 3 years - if the NFL does go to an uncapped year, he's locked in to NE for several years.
 
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