The win-win-win situation for NE, Tom, and Matt

[PatSunday]

Your premise is deeply flawed.

1) There is no guarantee that we would win the Superbowl next year. How can you even make this claim? This is what people said of both the Pats and Cowboys for this year.

How dare you? Where did I say we would win the Super Bowl? Some other poster actually did, saying we will go 19-0 if we trade Cassel, but you didn't say anything to him. All I said was 1) hurt his ability to, 2) give him a good chance to, and 3) both players could, get a Super Bowl ring (after I said, if we win.) I never said we would win the Super Bowl! I said that could be another consideration for Matt wanting to stay here for just one more year than making a short career in .. Detroit.

2) You are assuming that Cassel wants to come back to NE. As long as Tom Brady is in a Pats uniform, Matt will be a back up. After his play this year, Matt wants to lead is own team and create his own identity. He will not be playing for the Pats in 2009 as a back up.

You're assuming that Cassel wants to leave immediately AT ALL COSTS. I'm not assuming anything, hence I'm posting another possibility that others have not been talking much about. I do think if we could stretch the dollar to keep Cassel, and he signs for a lower price, that he could get $13 million a year after showing everyone that he's actually that good, if not gets even better.

3) Why would he sign for 8 million when he either gets tagged for 14 million or walks as a free agent, in which case he will get his big deal this year. NOT NEXT YEAR!

Great question. Because of all the reasons I've already posted. It would do him more good that way. I guess, though, that these are the pros, and if Matt Cassel left somewhere, he would have pretty good QB and head coaches, if not the best like BB has, to continue developing him. So I can see your point. But one of my points was that if he signs with us, but we continue to shop him around, other teams would stop feeling like we're desperate and offer us a killer deal for Cassel in August.

4) No professional team will operate in the manner in which you've suggested, with one playing for a half the other playing for the other half of the game. Maybe in the Arena League but not in the NFL.

You might be right. I was imagining that Belichick is crafty, willing to try new things, and is a good negotiator. And I don't imagine that Cassel would really feel all that bad to play for a few $$ million less to get one more year of experience. Especially if the available teams that need his services are ones he wouldn't want a career with. Especially as that he has not played since high school up until now, so for him, an extra year would not be the craziest thing (he's also very young.) I'd understand if he played in college and then for 2 years in the NFL. But instead, he has so much more to prove, I feel, and get more money for his services.

5) I've got news for you: No one in their right mind who understands the game of football wants Cassel playing at all if Tom Brady is dressed and able to play. Its not even close my friend. Cassel is nowhere near the QB that Tom is so why would you want him to take half of each games snaps? You are forgetting how good Tom Brady is, which is too bad because he's the QB of your team and he's the best in the game.
Injury, uncertainty...blah blah blah. No one works harder than TB and he will be ready by Game 1. Book it!
Respects.

I'm not saying he won't be ready! Any professional player will say and feel like he's ready! I think he will heal on schedule. But if the player has been out of the game for a year, it would be better for him to spend an extra month getting in shape, even if we KNOW he finished healing up. That gives him one less month to get hurt, and on top of that, he'd be getting stronger instead. So it's a double positive.

Hey, thank you very much for your post. You brought up some good points that I didn't think about.

 

[Angry Man]

Here's my 2 cents on all of this. Keep in mind that this is just one man's opinion and its only that - an opinion. If you agree with me on this then cool but if you disagree then that's cool too. So here I go....

I can see where PatSunday is coming from with his idea. I really feel that Matt has developed a great deal this season and honestly I'd love to see him stay as a Patriot. A good deal of what PatSunday has brought up is much of what I have been thinking of lately such as giving Tom a bit more time to get back into game shape. Another thing is that Matt if need to be could be used as an running back for instance as he has shown he does have good speed with the ball. Just a thought to throw out there.

On the other side I can see why trading him for 1st/2nd round picks could be beneficial for the team. If we got a chance to add strength to, say, the offensive line then I'd say go for it. Yeah I would be sad to see Matt leave (even if its to the Vikes) but if it means better pocket protection for Tom for the 2009 season and beyond then its a sacrifice that might be worth taking.

Ultimately this is going to come down to what Bill Belichick & Co feels is the best option to take. No matter how you break it down I know this will not be the most easiest decision to make. To me unless if the decision is really really dumb (ie: trade to the Rats) then I'll respect how this plays out. It'll be interesting to see what happens regardless.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Here's my 2 cents on all of this. Keep in mind that this is just one man's opinion and its only that - an opinion. If you agree with me on this then cool but if you disagree then that's cool too. So here I go....

I can see where PatSunday is coming from with his idea. I really feel that Matt has developed a great deal this season and honestly I'd love to see him stay as a Patriot. A good deal of what PatSunday has brought up is much of what I have been thinking of lately such as giving Tom a bit more time to get back into game shape. Another thing is that Matt if need to be could be used as an running back for instance as he has shown he does have good speed with the ball. Just a thought to throw out there.

On the other side I can see why trading him for 1st/2nd round picks could be beneficial for the team. If we got a chance to add strength to, say, the offensive line then I'd say go for it. Yeah I would be sad to see Matt leave (even if its to the Vikes) but if it means better pocket protection for Tom for the 2009 season and beyond then its a sacrifice that might be worth taking.

Ultimately this is going to come down to what Bill Belichick & Co feels is the best option to take. No matter how you break it down I know this will not be the most easiest decision to make. To me unless if the decision is really really dumb (ie: trade to the Rats) then I'll respect how this plays out. It'll be interesting to see what happens regardless.

You had me going for a bit until you said you wanted to use Cassel as a runningback. ROFL. Wow, I'm speechless. I mean, WOW. Let's pay Cassel 13M then use him as our RB............ I'm sorry but that idea is epic FAIL!

 

[PatSunday]

Here's my 2 cents on all of this. Keep in mind that this is just one man's opinion and its only that - an opinion. If you agree with me on this then cool but if you disagree then that's cool too. So here I go....

I can see where PatSunday is coming from with his idea. I really feel that Matt has developed a great deal this season and honestly I'd love to see him stay as a Patriot. A good deal of what PatSunday has brought up is much of what I have been thinking of lately such as giving Tom a bit more time to get back into game shape. Another thing is that Matt if need to be could be used as an running back for instance as he has shown he does have good speed with the ball. Just a thought to throw out there.

On the other side I can see why trading him for 1st/2nd round picks could be beneficial for the team. If we got a chance to add strength to, say, the offensive line then I'd say go for it. Yeah I would be sad to see Matt leave (even if its to the Vikes) but if it means better pocket protection for Tom for the 2009 season and beyond then its a sacrifice that might be worth taking.

Ultimately this is going to come down to what Bill Belichick & Co feels is the best option to take. No matter how you break it down I know this will not be the most easiest decision to make. To me unless if the decision is really really dumb (ie: trade to the Rats) then I'll respect how this plays out. It'll be interesting to see what happens regardless.

If I was Matt, I would say to myself, I'm 26 years old, if given the option to stay with the Pats for less money in order to build up some skills and different abilities with HOF wide receivers and coaches, versus playing for Detroit Lions for three years, and know that I would improve my skills with the current coaching staff, as well as buy my mentor Tom Brady some extra time, whether he thinks he needs it or not, and that this could be the best year of my life, being young and playing for the Patriots (and maybe even outplaying Tom Brady for the job, who's a cool dude!), and at the same time increase my worth, possibly get a SB ring, and know that teams will be giving me the craziest offers ever, and I might like those teams next year more than Lions, then maybe I should stick around for one more year! It's just a year!

 

[Angry Man]

You had me going for a bit until you said you wanted to use Cassel as a runningback. ROFL. Wow, I'm speechless. I mean, WOW. Let's pay Cassel 13M then use him as our RB............ I'm sorry but that idea is epic FAIL!

Now come on... I never said my ideas were of genius. :lol2:

Seriously I just figured I would throw out a crazy idea that hit me. I know as you put it its "epic FAIL" but at least I did throw the idea out there.

 

[PatSunday]

You had me going for a bit until you said you wanted to use Cassel as a runningback. ROFL. Wow, I'm speechless. I mean, WOW. Let's pay Cassel 13M then use him as our RB............ I'm sorry but that idea is epic FAIL!

Yeah, I wouldn't use Cassel as a running back... Though he hasn't played that position since high school, maybe we should try him out? Just kidding.

 

[PatSunday]

????



Guess you have to not only read it but comprehend what you are reading.

Actually, you are wrong. The Guy in a Grey Hoodie actually read my post, and you extrapolated a rhetorical question. I pointed out that both QB's would increase in "value" from seeing playing time with New England next year, versus what they are right now. That means NOT trading Brady, but keeping both Quarterbacks next year, and trading CASSEL the following. Please stick to the topic.

 

[PatSunday]

Brady may not be 100%, but "nowhere near" is vastly overstating it. And Cassel arguably could be worth less not starting for a year, and definitely worth less should he play but get injured.

I'm not sure a HOF-Bound QB who set NFL records will start the season in exactly the same shape he left off after a knee injury and multiple surgeries. I'm sure he'll be as good by November, but September? And if we keep Cassel in the mean time, Cassel will gain more experience and will be worth much more to other teams than he would be right now.

Doubtful. Tom has renegotiated before to help the team, but always deferred money, not gave it up. And that's part of why his cap charge is so high the next two years. Why would he give up money, especially when salaries have skyrocketed since his last contract?

That was the wrong word during hasty typing and summarizing my post. I think you realized this (as you say, he typically defers money all the time, and you must know that that's what I meant.) As I said in the original full post, Brady would actually extend his contract and reduce how much he gets paid next year, so we could sign Cassel (I was speaking about deferring it, like he's done before.)

If you sign Cassel for one year like you suggest, we are in the same boat next year where we must franchise him in order to get picks. (Unless there is no CBA extention, in which case he would become a RFA). Depending on the absence of a CBA extension in order to get picks for him as a RFA is stretching it.

Didn't think about that, but if true, that would be a positive for the Patriots.

It just doesn't add up to a realistic scenario.

Agree, but I think it's the best long-term and short-term decision for Matt, Tom, and the Pats.

 

[BelizePats]

Many players in the game today say that the NFL stands for Not For Long.
Meaning that it can all end very quickly. This is why its all about right now. By and large, players are not interested in waiting a year or two when they can probably get paid now. Its the same with coaching candidates. It was obvious to many that Mangini was not ready to be a head coach and that he likley would have benefited by waiting and learning for another year or two. He felt he was ready when the Rats offered him the job.
Its the same NOW with Cassel. He's waited 4 years and now he gets the chance to play and he's played far better than anyone expected he would and now he has to cash in on that. He's not going to wait another year and go back to being a back up for 2009 only to then MAYBE get what he can get at the end of this year. He blows out his knee in the first practice of training camp next year and and then how does his decision to wait a year work for him. NFL Not For Long
Don't forget that Cassel also has an agent who is working on his behalf to maximize his value now. And his agent is not going to be interested in waiting a year to get paid any more than Matt is. In this game players have to strike when the iron is hot. And right now, Cassel is hot.
Next year is a lifetime.
Not For Long
My apologies for incorrectly reading your post re winning the Superbowl next year.
Respects

 

[PatSunday]

Many players in the game today say that the NFL stands for Not For Long.

I guess you're right. And I guess if I was a professional athlete who had the confidence that he belonged in the NFL all these years, being a backup every year, that now I was going to be good enough to get my pay day as much as possible. I guess these professional football athletes DON'T want safe, otherwise they would be playing a different sport. You're right. Matt lunges head first for first downs pretty frequently -- so he is probably the last quarterback out there who would feel uncertainty/fear in his ability to control his own team in any stadium. I think you're all correct.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Paste this post in the other thread. And then ask for that thread to be locked.

Now THIS is a post that makes sense. Merge this with the other threads. Kill it


We've discussed all these ideas in multiple threads over the last 2 months. I wish people would just stop. BB will show us what he's gonna do at the end of FEB.

 

[PatSunday]

Now THIS is a post that makes sense. Merge this with the other threads. Kill it


We've discussed all these ideas in multiple threads over the last 2 months. I wish people would just stop. BB will show us what he's gonna do at the end of FEB.

You're as optimistic as a Jets fan. You should check out their forums, they might make great company. All of your posts are negative "rolls eyes" types. At least the Jets fans are hillarious in their negativity.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

You're as optimistic as a Jets fan. You should check out their forums, they might make great company. All of your posts are negative "rolls eyes" types. At least the Jets fans are hillarious in their negativity.

No, not all of my posts are negative. Maybe you should try reading them, and you'd learn something. While you're at it, try reading all the other threads where we've all dicussed Brady, and Matt, and what will transpire this offseason, and you'll see why I made my comment about your thread. People are constanstly making new threads about the same subjects. As a result, good original threads get pushed to the second, and third page where noone will see them.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If you sign Cassel for one year like you suggest, we are in the same boat next year where we must franchise him in order to get picks. (Unless there is no CBA extention, in which case he would become a RFA). Depending on the absence of a CBA extension in order to get picks for him as a RFA is stretching it.

Also, remember the minimum RFA tender is 110% of a player's prior year salary.

You're assuming that Cassel wants to leave immediately AT ALL COSTS. I'm not assuming anything, hence I'm posting another possibility that others have not been talking much about. I do think if we could stretch the dollar to keep Cassel, and he signs for a lower price, that he could get $13 million a year after showing everyone that he's actually that good, if not gets even better.

There's another reason why he wants to be a starter next year--supply and demand. There look to be significantly more teams in need of an upgrade than there are good prospects in the 2009 draft. OTOH, the 2010 draft looks like a pretty good place to find a QB.

 

[fnordcircle]

No because this post doesn't discuss trading Brady read it before making a comment that a thread should be moved.

Question one. Is Matt Cassell's best scenario to leave the Pats, and/or would he be better off doing so?

Question two: same, but for Brady.

Here's a handy internet flowchart for your future reference:

Read -> Comprehend -> Post.

Or are you going to claim that by leave he meant retire because that's the only way Brady is leaving this team other than a trade, which will never happen.

There's a 'Trade Brady' megathread for a reason, your opinion is not unique and wonderful, this thread should be there.

 

[Sivy]

Why do you think so? I've had a shoulder injury before and I had trouble lifting weights (as shoulders are involved in everything but leg exercises.) I lost lots of muscle. Granted, Tom is a pro, but the best case scenario I see is that he will be healed up, but not the same player yet. But an extra month or two would give him time to get into shape again without having to play right away no-matter-what, as in your case.

he is going to play in week one.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Here are a couple of additional questions:

With one year under the belt, does anyone have any idea where KOC is in his development?
Considering what BB has done with a 6th and 7th round pick; can we extrapolate what is possible with a 3rd round pick?

The Franchise tag might not be totally bad for MC. I am sure he wants (and deserves) the money. However, the teams that would be the most attractive for trading would be teams ready to compete for a Super Bowl but need a QB.

Think Tampa, Minnesota, Philly, Washington

How much would Snyder give up for MC? or TB for that matter.

This years injury was devastating. However, we do know that old men Collins and Warner can play in their later 30's because they were backups for so many years.

How many years on the backside does a year of rest give TB?

 

[alamo]

Here are a couple of additional questions:

With one year under the belt, does anyone have any idea where KOC is in his development?
Considering what BB has done with a 6th and 7th round pick; can we extrapolate what is possible with a 3rd round pick?

Lets see... Brady 6th.... Rohan Davey 4th... I think that extrapolates to O'Connell being cut during training camp 2010.

 

[spacecrime]

You're as optimistic as a Jets fan. You should check out their forums, they might make great company. All of your posts are negative "rolls eyes" types. At least the Jets fans are hillarious in their negativity.

You get the roll eyes from other posters (who habitually post intelligent and reasoned analysis) because this is a stupid thread based on a total misunderstanding of the NFL, the CBA, the cap, and professional athletes. Other than that, good job

Saying that Cassel's value will go up by holding a clipbaord for a year is ludicrous.

Saying that a player who deserved starting QB salary ($8 - $10 mil) this year but played for half a mil, who stands to make $20+ mil next year if a FA or $15 mil next year when franchised, will happily take $8 mil for the privelege of not playing is beyond ludicrous.

This thread should not be merged with the Trade Brady Thread. It should be sent to the Practice Squad forum, and then be cut.


EDIT: Look at the thread rating to see what the membership as a whole thinks of this thread.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Well Davey, was the odd guy out because 4th rounders are excluded.

Seriously, does anyone have any idea where KOC is in his development? It seems to me that some dude named Tom Brady needed a year under his wings. My guess is KOC has the physical tools. However, his development is critical to the overall situation.

Can he play a few games Sep 2009 if he really needs to?

Also, what will our schedule be the first 4-6 games. We should have a tough 2009 schedule.