Needs Analysis: Safety

[captain stone]

Yes, but Al Groh was the DC that year, not BB. BB had to made good with what was already here.

This is true, though I'm sure that Bill as DBs Coach prob. had some input into the who plays/who sits decisions.

Here's PFW's list of '09 FAs, incl. Safeties:
Features - NFL pro football articles and coverage from Pro Football Weekly

Adrian Wilson isn't a FA, but Brian Dawkins is. He'll turn 36 next season, however, so at best he could serve as a 1/2-year mentor to our SS of the Future, if he were so inclined.

Other interesting FA names at SS:
Yeremiah Bell, Michael Boulware, James Butler, Sean Considine, Sean Jones,
Brandon McGowan, Jon McGraw, Jermaine Phillips, Gerald Sensabaugh, and Darren Sharper.

Oh, and Lawyer Milloy, too. But he would never return here, would he?

What the NEP should do is sign one of the aforementioned SSs - Jones & Phillips are my top 2 - and draft a SS of the Future, a young Rodney Harrison, with a Top 100 pick - the earlier the better.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Do you think they might be viewing Ruud as more of a Don Davis hybrid LB/S type?

I think he was drafted as an additional late round candidate for ILB.

He's the lightest LB they've drafted while in NE, but he has the frame to carry more muscle, he also comes from a LB family and has experience in a two-gap, zone blitz defensive system. Looking at his stats suggests he had some coverage ability, but certainly not enough for SS.

My best guess is he was the late round candidate whom they believed offered the best mental and physical tools, combined with his starting experience in the Big 12, to compete for an ILB role while on Special Teams. I think they would have preferred to have him on the Practice Squad, but IR also allows him to work with Woicik, Nash, and Davis to get stronger and more explosive. Reading his profile at NFLDraftScout.com he's described as "instinctive" and "quick to diagnose." His athleticism is questioned, but he was being projected as a 4-3 OLB. He's also described as having good hands to stack and shed blockers and being good in "trash," if he can bulk up to survive a 3-4, he reads like the kind of cerebral, good in a phone booth player whom BB would use at SILB - I hope he is spending film time with Tedy.

 

[BradyManny]

Except James Sanders is not playing the traditional SS, he's playing more of a FS role and Meriweather is the one more likely to be brought down close to the LOS.

I can understand why BB was experimenting with Tank Williams in the box, but I think Guyton's emergence has made that a moot point. Factor in that Ruud was a pretty effective coverage LB at Nebraska (5 interceptions and 13 PBUs) and Alexander was a SS converted to MLB at LSU and Mayo is pretty good too, and you have a pool of coverage LBs to work with on Nickel and Dime sets.

Some more names to ponder:

- Chris Clemons, Clemson has good size, but his speed is a concern, we'll need to watch his Combine/pro-Day data.
- Darian Stewart, South Carolina is a junior, but he has size and stood out to me watching a DVR of the Clemson game - he'll probably stay, but he's one to monitor.

Interesting that they have Meriweather in the box more often. I think Meriweather has looked pretty good in run support. On the surface, he looks a little too small for the job, but he has a bit of that stockiness that Bob Sanders has, and he packs a pretty good hit. Perhaps more importantly, he locates and gets to the ball carrier quickly. (Admittedly, Meriweather's hits on TEs on late have left a little more to be desired, at least the Jets game that is)

So is Meriweather-Sanders the combo of the future at safety?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the pats don't have anyone that opposing players need to be fearful of.........if a WR/TE is going across the middle, they need to assume that there's someone back there that will ring their bell.......either that or an ed reed type whose instincts are off the charts where the QB always has him on their mind

the pats have neither the physical play back there nor the instinct

 

[mgteich]

This was certain the plan of the Front Office. This will likely be settled before free agency opens. Once James Sanders is a free agent, it seems likely that several teams will pay more than the patriots.

Of course, most posters on this site would prefer to have James Sanders as a backup for us, or have him play somewhere else.

So is Meriweather-Sanders the combo of the future at safety?

 

[cstjohn17]

This was certain the plan of the Front Office. This will likely be settled before free agency opens. Once James Sanders is a free agent, it seems likely that several teams will pay more than the patriots.

Of course, most posters on this site would prefer to have James Sanders as a backup for us, or have him play somewhere else.

I don't think it was the plan otherwise why would they wait so long? Sanders would be a fool to not test free agency now that there are only 4 games left in the season (plus 4 playoff games).

Maybe they will add both a veteran JAG (Williams, Harrison, etc.) and a mid level draft pick (rounds 3-4).

 

[captain stone]

the pats don't have anyone that opposing players need to be fearful of.........if a WR/TE is going across the middle, they need to assume that there's someone back there that will ring their bell.......either that or an ed reed type whose instincts are off the charts where the QB always has him on their mind

the pats have neither the physical play back there nor the instinct

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[VJCPatriot]

A great safety would really change this team. Nobody will ever mistake Sanders for a great safety. We've been missing Rodney's presence in the backfield, even at his age he has made this team better when healthy. I don't think he is coming back next year. It's time to draft a true hitting safety that can actually cover a tight end as well as deliver the big hit to make the receivers hear footsteps coming.

 

[mgteich]

The FO thought they had their future starters in Meriweather and Sanders, with Sanders as the "true" strong safety. I agree that it is time to look again. After all we have three openings at safety.

A great safety would really change this team. Nobody will ever mistake Sanders for a great safety. We've been missing Rodney's presence in the backfield, even at his age he has made this team better when healthy. I don't think he is coming back next year. It's time to draft a true hitting safety that can actually cover a tight end as well as deliver the big hit to make the receivers hear footsteps coming.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Glad to see more are coming around to this. It's a bit of sore spot for me after having gotten flamed a year ago that I didn't see Sanders as a starting caliber safety though I thought then and still think now that he's a decent 3rd safety. There's just so much one can attribute to the Rashomon phenomenon and at some point, one begins to wonder what a great deal of otherwise knowlegeable posters have been smoking. I'll also note, nowhere in my posts contra Sanders have I been even close to that DW Toys "dear cousins" character's pathological disdain for Sanders.

Now, I regret I could not catch more college games so for the scouts here, your contributions on the subject have been and will continue to be greatly appreciated.

We need someone back there to smack the snot out of would be receivers coming over the middle. We also need a sure tackler who'll actually bring down a RB or TE on contact without getting dragged three additional yards for a first down.

I noticed Box's threads which he was good enough to have re-posted here. A few of the usual suspect seem to have stayed the same on the list as those mentioned here following the draft.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...stion-re-draft-why-no-ss-pick.html#post877777

 

[tanked_as_usual]

The FO thought they had their future starters in Meriweather and Sanders, with Sanders as the "true" strong safety. I agree that it is time to look again. After all we have three openings at safety.

sanders is the best tackler they have in the secondary.........but he is too small to make the big hit and too slow to be very effective in coverage

 

[DaBruinz]

I would love Adrian Wilson here too, but that seems unlikely. But remember, Lawyer Milloy was a rookie under Belichick in '96, so a rookie starting at SS for him is not unprecedented. Milloy was their starter then, wasn't he?

Wilson doesn't become a UFA until after the 2009 season.

Official Site of the Arizona Cardinals

 

[DaBruinz]

sanders is the best tackler they have in the secondary.........but he is too small to make the big hit and too slow to be very effective in coverage

In what way is Sanders small? He's 5'10 and 210 lbs. Harrison is 6'1 and 220?

Sanders is slightly more compact than Harrison.

I agree that Sanders isn't very effective in coverage.. He's a better guy at the line.

A hybrid FS/LB (someone who can play in coverage, yet hit like a ton of bricks) , would be ideal. But they'd probably be conversion projects.

A couple of potential projects include:
Jonathan Casillas : http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=67804
DeAndre Levy: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=61426
Chris Evans: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=56498

 

[tanked_as_usual]

In what way is Sanders small? He's 5'10 and 210 lbs. Harrison is 6'1 and 220?

Sanders is slightly more compact than Harrison.

I agree that Sanders isn't very effective in coverage.. He's a better guy at the line.

A hybrid FS/LB (someone who can play in coverage, yet hit like a ton of bricks) , would be ideal. But they'd probably be conversion projects.

A couple of potential projects include:
Jonathan Casillas : NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage for Pros by Pros - Powered by the Sports Xchange
DeAndre Levy: NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage for Pros by Pros - Powered by the Sports Xchange
Chris Evans: NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage for Pros by Pros - Powered by the Sports Xchange

yeah.........the LB-S conversions generally don't work ...... the last ones to try were the panthers who wasted their time with thomas davis

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Like I said over at ESPN's board. Brian Dawkins is a FA next year. Sign him and you have an intimidating pair of safeties with Meriweather at SS. Dawkins can still play and has been one of the best FS's in the business. BB has a track record of going after that kind of experienced and savvy player. They'd be set for at least two years.

 

[kas]

It would take our first, but William Moore from Missouri is one of my favourite players in the draft. He's a SS type but has good ball skills and is a sound tackler. Has experience both in the box and in space (the way we used Rodney). IMO he could contribute in year 1, and could be an impact player down the road.

I definitely would not mind Dawkins though...that dude can play

 

[dryheat44]

This is true, though I'm sure that Bill as DBs Coach prob. had some input into the who plays/who sits decisions.

Here's PFW's list of '09 FAs, incl. Safeties:
Features - NFL pro football articles and coverage from Pro Football Weekly

Adrian Wilson isn't a FA, but Brian Dawkins is. He'll turn 36 next season, however, so at best he could serve as a 1/2-year mentor to our SS of the Future, if he were so inclined.

Other interesting FA names at SS:
Yeremiah Bell, Michael Boulware, James Butler, Sean Considine, Sean Jones,
Brandon McGowan, Jon McGraw, Jermaine Phillips, Gerald Sensabaugh, and Darren Sharper.

Oh, and Lawyer Milloy, too. But he would never return here, would he?

What the NEP should do is sign one of the aforementioned SSs - Jones & Phillips are my top 2 - and draft a SS of the Future, a young Rodney Harrison, with a Top 100 pick - the earlier the better.

After Asomugha, Sean Jones is probably the best player in the free agency pool. If they could somehow grab both of them, our secondary instantly transforms from among the very worst to among the very best. Of course, they will both likely be franchised. With Hobbs and Meriweather still on rookie contracts, it would work out OK. I'd be cool with Sanders as the third safety. Despite his limitations, he seems to understand the defense well enough.

 

[BritPat]

A word about the hybrid S/LB position....erm, Tank Williams?

 

[VJCPatriot]

A word about the hybrid S/LB position....erm, Tank Williams?

When's the last time Tank has stayed healthy for a full season? And that's the rub. Pats should look to the draft or free agency for their safety needs. I think an enforcer/hard hitting SS type is in order.

 

[Seneschal2]

If we pass early on a William Moore, who fits the size mold of many on this board, there is a heck of a football player who doesn't have the size, but fits the player mold of Pats prospects. Emanuel Cook of South Carolina is quite a player. Rated the #1 junior SS prospect with a round 1-2 projection. Decent in coverage and very strong in the box/short zone due to his tackling ability. Reportedly, a very instinctive player. Nicknamed the Hit Man. Listed at only 5'10" 205, but I've seen him profiled at 215. He's the real deal as a hitter, otherwise his size would be a concern. But when you look back, BB spent a third rounder on SS Gus Scott, he of the 5-10 204 stature.

As far as I know, the Pats still draft football players. So when focusing on the 220+ Safeties, consider the lightweights who can play the position as well.