Frank Coyle/Draft Insiders 2-Round Mock

[captain stone]

NFL Draft ?09 - Two Round Mock Draft | Draft Insiders' Digest

Instead of (OLB?)Everette Brown at #20, how about CB Alphonso Smith?

Another CB at #43 sounds good, too, but would Domonique Johnson - instead of Mike Mickens, DJ Moore, Captain Munnerlyn or Darius Butler - be the right choice?

I don't like his pick at #57 at all. Can Tyson Jackson play OLB?

 

[PatriotDynasty_12]

I want Dave Philistin. ILB at Maryland who had like 125 tackles his Junior year. He is almost identical in terms of size and weight to Mayo. I'd like to see them as our future ILB's core and of course have Guyton there for more of a coverage LB. I've also been watching Philistin since H.S, so there is probably some bias in this want

He's projected to be a 2nd-3rd rounder.

http://umterps.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/philistin_dave00.html

 

[BritPat]

NFL Draft ?09 - Two Round Mock Draft | Draft Insiders' Digest

Instead of (OLB?)Everette Brown at #20, how about CB Alphonso Smith?

Another CB at #43 sounds good, too, but would Domonique Johnson - instead of Mike Mickens, DJ Moore, Captain Munnerlyn or Darius Butler - be the right choice?

I don't like his pick at #57 at all. Can Tyson Jackson play OLB?

Jackson goes at #58 to the Jets, he has us taking Ndamukong Suh at #57.

Jackson looks a prototypical 3-4 DE by the way.

 

[patsfaninpa]

NFL Draft ?09 - Two Round Mock Draft | Draft Insiders' Digest

Instead of (OLB?)Everette Brown at #20, how about CB Alphonso Smith?

Another CB at #43 sounds good, too, but would Domonique Johnson - instead of Mike Mickens, DJ Moore, Captain Munnerlyn or Darius Butler - be the right choice?

I don't like his pick at #57 at all. Can Tyson Jackson play OLB?

I think A.Smith has great instincts. By the eyeball test, he's not your ideal cb.
He reminds me of Asante. He makes a lot of great reads and gets his int's
that way. I wouldn't be a bit shocked if we take him. I think CB and SS are our
top 2 priorities. I like Sanders as a 3rd safety. But, he's no playmaker. I've seen
L.Milloy and R.Harrison play for this team the last 12 years. And, believe Mr.
Senator. He's no Rodney or Lawyer. You really have to watch these 4-3 ends
run in some drills to see if they can play olb in our scheme. Have to be able to
play in space and not just rush qb.

 

[cstjohn17]

Sounds like a good draft to me, Brown is rising fast and could be an impact player. More CB depth is needed and Suh wears 93, I guess he would replace 93 (plays a nasty fulback as well).

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

SUH, looked like a beast this weekend. I guess he could be insurance for Vince.

 

[everlong]

I want Dave Philistin. ILB at Maryland who had like 125 tackles his Junior year. He is almost identical in terms of size and weight to Mayo.

I was at the BC game this past weekend and it seemed like they were calling out his name every play. I had been watching the BC line most of the game to see if I liked any of them as prospects so I didn't get a good feel for how he was getting it done but he certainly can hit and has a nose for the ball.

 

[captain stone]

Jackson goes at #58 to the Jets, he has us taking Ndamukong Suh at #57.

Jackson looks a prototypical 3-4 DE by the way.

That's what I meant to say, that I don't like Coyle's choice of Suh for us at #57. Way too early for what would amount to a luxury pick (think Bumblin' Bennie Watson in '04) while we still have much more pressing needs on defense: multiple CBs, SS, OLB, DE, in that order. If Jackson is more DE than OLB, then I would rather wait for the Best Available CB, SS, or OLB at #57.

 

[mgteich]

Wilfork (08), Seymour (09), Wilfork (09), Green (09)

I would not call developing DE's or DT's to be a luxury. Tell me that we have extended ALL FOUR, and I will change my mind. We have only Warren and Smith past 2009.

That's what I meant to say, that I don't like Coyle's choice of Suh for us at #57. Way too early for what would amount to a luxury pick (think Bumblin' Bennie Watson in '04) while we still have much more pressing needs on defense: multiple CBs, SS, OLB, DE, in that order. If Jackson is more DE than OLB, then I would rather wait for the Best Available CB, SS, or OLB at #57.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Wilfork (08), Seymour (09), Wilfork (09), Green (09)

I would not call developing DE's or DT's to be a luxury. Tell me that we have extended ALL FOUR, and I will change my mind. We have only Warren and Smith past 2009.

Do you mean Wright in 08?

 

[captain stone]

Wilfork (08), Seymour (09), Wilfork (09), Green (09)

I would not call developing DE's or DT's to be a luxury. Tell me that we have extended ALL FOUR, and I will change my mind. We have only Warren and Smith past 2009.

We need CBs & a SS right now. Taking a DT in the 2nd round is too early; taking a DE who has superior pass-rushing skills is more palatable, though I'd rather take an OLB if the talent level is similar.

 

[captain stone]

Here's Coyle's latest 2-round mock, as of 12/22:
Underclassmen Dominate Early Rounds | Draft Insiders' Digest

IDK about Sintim. The FO has had opportunuties to draft Al Groh's UVA defenders in the past, but has yet to do so. Why should this time be any different?

Based on measurables, Victor Harris could be the next Ty Law; but he comes from one of the dirtiest programs in the country. Is he worth the risk?

Jamon Meredith is an intriguing choice. He could be the most athletic LT in the draft. But does he have enough lead in his pants to combat the bull rush, too?

Assuming that those taken ahead of our picks - acc. to Coyle - are gone, what IYOs would be the best-case scenario? Is Coyle spot-on, or way off?

 

[harveyw]

No BJ Raji DT (Boston Collge) in the first 2 rounds? I think BB/SP would take well before selecting Ndamukong Suh.

Speaking of draft prospects coming out of Boston College, does anyone have an opinion on OLB Mark Herzlich (Junior - might not come out)? In the games I watched he excelled at both rushing the QB and in coverage. Could be the impact player we are looking for on defense and should be available in the mid 20s, if not the 2nd round.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

No BJ Raji DT (Boston Collge) in the first 2 rounds? I think BB/SP would take well before selecting Ndamukong Suh.

Speaking of draft prospects coming out of Boston College, does anyone have an opinion on OLB Mark Herzlich (Junior - might not come out)? In the games I watched he excelled at both rushing the QB and in coverage. Could be the impact player we are looking for on defense and should be available in the mid 20s, if not the 2nd round.

Herzlich has turned out to be a much better playmaker than Toal, who gt much more press when he signed with BC.

Here is the problem. If you assume that Mayo stays at the weak ILB spot next season, it leaves us with a huge hole on the strong side. Thomas is the ideal fit to handle the ILB slot on the strong side, but moving Thomas inside leaves nothing to rush the passer on the outside for next season. (if only BB had traded up for Groves, it still stings)

Vrabel should return for a final season at one OLB spot, and I expect him to have a better season, given the extra month of rest his ailing shoulder will receive this off season.

So what does this draft offer as far as OLB's that can rush the passer. Unfortunately, nothing! Brown, Selvie, Johnson and Maybin are not going to cut it on outisde for the Pats. They would be for us what Gholston was for the Jets, a projection that needs a few years to learn a whole new position at best. At worst a bust.

Some guys that might work at OLB for next season.

Crable - (Currently on roster) a disspointment this year, but he gets to spend an off season with Woicik to get stronger and by next TC he will have a year in the system.

Cushing USC- (Requires a draft pick probably 1st or 2nd round) Has experience in the elephant type position at USC which requires him to play with his hand off the ground at times. Huge questions about a history with roids and has struggled to stay healthy.

Mathews USC - (Requires draft pick probabl 3rd or 4th round) Same creditials as Cushings, however while he has a higher revving motor, and he will need a year or two in the systembefore contributing on anything other than ST.

Shaunnesy Wisconsin - (Requires draft pick probably second round) High revving motor but solid against the run. No experience playing with his hand off the ground, so he will need a year or two in the system before he can contribute, but once he figures it out, he has a higher ceiling than any of those mentioned before.

If we keep Thomas on the outside, I see the draft having two good candidates to take over the strong side ILB position next season.

1.) Brinkley South Carolina - (Requires draft pick probably a second or third rounder) Provided he is recovered from knee surgery, he is a huge 275 pounder with decent instincts and decent speed. He can mash and he can cover.

2.) Laurenitis OSU - (Requires draft pick probably a first rounder) I was not high on him until this season when he finally learned how to take on and shed blockers as opposed to running around them. Instincts are not first rate, but he can stop the run and he can cover better than expected.

 

[VJCPatriot]

If Everett Brown can play the 3-4 OLB spot, that's a pretty good athlete to plug in. And at 6'4 252, I think he's big enough. For ILB Brandon Spikes is a playmaker. OLB>ILB in terms of need though.

ESPN - Draft Buzz: Everette Brown and Brian Orakpo among top five pass-rushers

So what does this draft offer as far as OLB's that can rush the passer. Unfortunately, nothing! Brown, Selvie, Johnson and Maybin are not going to cut it on outisde for the Pats. They would be for us what Gholston was for the Jets, a projection that needs a few years to learn a whole new position at best. At worst a bust.

Hogwash, the same was said of ANY linebacker in general before the 2008 draft proved otherwise because the Pats system required 'veterans' to learn the complex D quickly. The fact is that talent overcomes experience and the Pats had not find a talent worthy of being selected before Mayo came along. Mayo's super talent and intellegence translated into instant starter. BTW BOTH college OLB and ILB require "conversion" to fit the Pats 3-4 defensive scheme. And news flash - AD was supposed to be our elephant back. The newly drafted LBer doesn't need to be an elephant to be usable in the defense.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If Everett Brown can play the 3-4 OLB spot, that's a pretty good athlete to plug in. And at 6'4 252, I think he's big enough. For ILB Brandon Spikes is a playmaker. OLB>ILB in terms of need though.

ESPN - Draft Buzz: Everette Brown and Brian Orakpo among top five pass-rushers



Hogwash, the same was said of ANY linebacker in general before the 2008 draft proved otherwise because the Pats system required 'veterans' to learn the complex D quickly. The fact is that talent overcomes experience and the Pats had not find a talent worthy of being selected before Mayo came along. Mayo's super talent and intellegence translated into instant starter. BTW BOTH college OLB and ILB require "conversion" to fit the Pats 3-4 defensive scheme. And news flash - AD was supposed to be our elephant back. The newly drafted LBer doesn't need to be an elephant to be usable in the defense.

I think you are extremely confused.

Again; go back to last season and look at Gholston. He was a beast rushing from the DE position for OSU. Do you think that any of this year's crop of DE to OLB "posers", had half the year this year that Gholston had last year. No! Not even close!

Now look at what Gholston, who we all agree was better last year then any of the "posers" you are talking about for this draft were this year, has contributed to the Jets. Nothing!!! UDFA Technik is seeing more playing time with the Jets then Gholston.
I am not saying Gholston can not one day be special, but he like all the other "posers" you are babbling about will need time in the system.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I think you are extremely confused.

Again; go back to last season and look at Gholston. He was a beast rushing from the DE position for OSU. Do you think that any of this year's crop of DE to OLB "posers", had half the year this year that Gholston had last year. No! Not even close!

Now look at what Gholston, who we all agree was better last year then any of the "posers" you are talking about for this draft were this year, has contributed to the Jets. Nothing!!! UDFA Technik is seeing more playing time with the Jets then Gholston.
I am not saying Gholston can not one day be special, but he like all the other "posers" you are babbling about will need time in the system.

There's no 'posing' involved. Any college linebacker needs a 'conversion' to the Pats system. As DEs generally turn into OLBs for us and OLBs turn into ILBs for us. A 3-4 2 gap is a lot different from what most college guys play in. That's just fact. And just because Gholston may be a 'bust' for the Jets has no relevance on the next year's draft class.

That would be like insisting because Vince Young was a bust at QB for the Titans in 2007 that all the other QBs in the 2008 draft class would be bad. After watching Matt Ryan and Flacco in action, can we agree that kind of thinking has absolutely no relational value??

 

[harveyw]

Herzlich has turned out to be a much better playmaker than Toal, who gt much more press when he signed with BC.

Here is the problem. If you assume that Mayo stays at the weak ILB spot next season, it leaves us with a huge hole on the strong side. Thomas is the ideal fit to handle the ILB slot on the strong side, but moving Thomas inside leaves nothing to rush the passer on the outside for next season. (if only BB had traded up for Groves, it still stings)

Vrabel should return for a final season at one OLB spot, and I expect him to have a better season, given the extra month of rest his ailing shoulder will receive this off season.

So what does this draft offer as far as OLB's that can rush the passer. Unfortunately, nothing! Brown, Selvie, Johnson and Maybin are not going to cut it on outisde for the Pats. They would be for us what Gholston was for the Jets, a projection that needs a few years to learn a whole new position at best. At worst a bust.

Some guys that might work at OLB for next season.

Crable - (Currently on roster) a disspointment this year, but he gets to spend an off season with Woicik to get stronger and by next TC he will have a year in the system.

Cushing USC- (Requires a draft pick probably 1st or 2nd round) Has experience in the elephant type position at USC which requires him to play with his hand off the ground at times. Huge questions about a history with roids and has struggled to stay healthy.

Mathews USC - (Requires draft pick probabl 3rd or 4th round) Same creditials as Cushings, however while he has a higher revving motor, and he will need a year or two in the systembefore contributing on anything other than ST.

Shaunnesy Wisconsin - (Requires draft pick probably second round) High revving motor but solid against the run. No experience playing with his hand off the ground, so he will need a year or two in the system before he can contribute, but once he figures it out, he has a higher ceiling than any of those mentioned before.

If we keep Thomas on the outside, I see the draft having two good candidates to take over the strong side ILB position next season.

1.) Brinkley South Carolina - (Requires draft pick probably a second or third rounder) Provided he is recovered from knee surgery, he is a huge 275 pounder with decent instincts and decent speed. He can mash and he can cover.

2.) Laurenitis OSU - (Requires draft pick probably a first rounder) I was not high on him until this season when he finally learned how to take on and shed blockers as opposed to running around them. Instincts are not first rate, but he can stop the run and he can cover better than expected.

I agree 100% with your Toal comment as I was at BC when he was recruited. He was an impact player as a freshman, but O'Brien's use of him on offense wore him down. Countless shoulder injuries have rendered him all but useless for the past 3 years. However, you comments on the draft class did nothing for me in regards to fitting into our system. Please note that he lined up at some DE in his first year at BC. Let me know, I am interested on your take.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

There's no 'posing' involved. Any college linebacker needs a 'conversion' to the Pats system. As DEs generally turn into OLBs for us and OLBs turn into ILBs for us. A 3-4 2 gap is a lot different from what most college guys play in. That's just fact. And just because Gholston may be a 'bust' for the Jets has no relevance on the next year's draft class.

That would be like insisting because Vince Young was a bust at QB for the Titans in 2007 that all the other QBs in the 2008 draft class would be bad. After watching Matt Ryan and Flacco in action, can we agree that kind of thinking has absolutely no relational value??

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. I am talking about a complete position change. I'm not sure how Vince Young's mental breakdown/depression after two years in the NFL fits with a position change from college to the NFL

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I agree 100% with your Toal comment as I was at BC when he was recruited. He was an impact player as a freshman, but O'Brien's use of him on offense wore him down. Countless shoulder injuries have rendered him all but useless for the past 3 years. However, you comments on the draft class did nothing for me in regards to fitting into our system. Please note that he lined up at some DE in his first year at BC. Let me know, I am interested on your take.

My apologies, I guess I got way off track on that post.

I like Herzlich a lot. He appears to have decent toughness, instincts and is solid against the run and decent in coverage.

However, I hope he stays in school for his senior season. Barring injury,another year in school and ten to fifteen more pounds will make him a viable candidate for BB when drafting for the strong side ILB position, which I think is the most mentally and physically challenging on the Pats team.