Defense wins in the NFL

[BlitzFritz]

at least that has typically been true.....

why is our defense so average?
even during 2003-04, we had tons of injuries, but our scheme and execution would always compensate....

its just bewildering, frustrating.

 

[signbabybrady]

I have put some thought to what might be the cause for why we had better pressure in the past. Some things that people like to point to are Seymour not being as dominant and Vrabel not being as dominant.

But I think one thing that is overlooked alot is WILLIE MAC. This guy was so made for our 3-4 system and especially in big games made the big plays and big pressures.

 

[DarrylS]

at least that has typically been true.....

why is our defense so average?
even during 2003-04, we had tons of injuries, but our scheme and execution would always compensate....

its just bewildering, frustrating.

Not sure it is all that bad, get back from the edge.. according to NFL.com..

in 2004 we were ranked #9 in total D allowed an avg. of 16.2 pts per game
in 2008 we were ranked #12 in total D allowed an ave. of 19.4 pts per game

Sometimes the mind plays tricks.. we are still in the top tier of D's

 

[signbabybrady]

Not sure it is all that bad, get back from the edge.. according to NFL.com..

in 2004 we were ranked #9 in total D allowed an avg. of 16.2 pts per game
in 2008 we were ranked #12 in total D allowed an ave. of 19.4 pts per game

Sometimes the mind plays tricks.. we are still in the top tier of D's

Damn I wish I went there first because I certainly agree with what you said.

 

[Rob0729]

at least that has typically been true.....

why is our defense so average?
even during 2003-04, we had tons of injuries, but our scheme and execution would always compensate....

its just bewildering, frustrating.

Of course defense is what wins in the NFL. I have never gotten why this board is filled with threads trashing offensive personnel and coaches like Cassel, McDaniels, etc. whenever the Pats lose especially when the defense performs as bad or worse (like the Colts game this year). This team has won Super Bowls with mediocre to average offenses with spectacular defenses (2001 and 2003). This team failed to win the Super Bowl with the best offense of all time (2007).

No matter how good your offense is, odds are you aren't going to win a Super Bowl without at least an above average defense. Offenses are far less consistent than defenses can be.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Patriots are 9th in the NFL in scoring defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Not sure it is all that bad, get back from the edge.. according to NFL.com..

in 2004 we were ranked #9 in total D allowed an avg. of 16.2 pts per game
in 2008 we were ranked #12 in total D allowed an ave. of 19.4 pts per game

Sometimes the mind plays tricks.. we are still in the top tier of D's

Actually, that is a pretty big point swing. The Pats 3rd down defense and red zone defense is attrocious this year. The points allowed would be far worse if the Pats weren't successful at playing ball control offense.
The Pats are fifth in time of possession in the NFL. How many drives have the Pats had this year that have eaten up 5,6, 7, or even 8 or 9 minutes this year? The Pats are eighth in 3rd down completion percentage, third in number of offensive plays, and fifth in number of first downs.

I agree the mind plays tricks. The points allowed stat proves it a bit. The offense has made the defense not look quite as bad in the stats categories. If the Pats' offense wasn't so efficient at holding onto the ball (wish it was better at scoring points though), the defense may be a disaster right now.

 

[mgteich]

Our defense seems worse than last year because they are on the field longer and are not able to ignore the run as they did last year when they were often playing from 10 points ahead. I believe that this year's defense would have exceled last year.

at least that has typically been true.....

why is our defense so average?
even during 2003-04, we had tons of injuries, but our scheme and execution would always compensate....

its just bewildering, frustrating.

 

[Rob0729]

Our defense seems worse than last year because they are on the field longer and are not able to ignore the run as they did last year when they were often playing from 10 points ahead. I believe that this year's defense would have exceled last year.

Actually that isn't true. The Pats average time of possession from this year to last year is only one second different. In fact, the defense this year has been on the field one less second per game this year than last year.

I do think this defense would have done a lot better last year just because the defense last year faced a lot of one-dimensional offenses that were interested in scoring quickly because they were down by 3-4 TDs early in the game.

 

[BradyManny]

Actually that isn't true. The Pats average time of possession from this year to last year is only one second different. In fact, the defense this year has been on the field one less second per game this year than last year.

The offense was scoring a lot more often and a lot faster last year. So the defense was playing with big leads, so I don't think the factor is time of possession as much. When you have leads that huge, it forces opposing offenses to be one dimensional.

 

[Rob0729]

The offense was scoring a lot more often and a lot faster last year. So the defense was playing with big leads, so I don't think the factor is time of possession as much. When you have leads that huge, it forces opposing offenses to be one dimensional.

I agree. I am just pointing out that his/her point that the defense is on the field more this year is not true.

 

[maverick4]

Of course defense is what wins in the NFL. I have never gotten why this board is filled with threads trashing offensive personnel and coaches like Cassel, McDaniels, etc. whenever the Pats lose especially when the defense performs as bad or worse (like the Colts game this year). This team has won Super Bowls with mediocre to average offenses with spectacular defenses (2001 and 2003). This team failed to win the Super Bowl with the best offense of all time (2007).
.

What are you smoking?
Our defense in 2001 gave up tons of yards and points, and in 2003 and 2004 the defense gave up points late.
In all 3 championships it was not the defense that won it, our offense had to win at the end of every game.

Over the past 3 years we have had dominant defense, but our offense has failed at the end of games.

If you want to know why and whose fault it is, just take a look at the Superbowl, last drive we call a bunch of slow developing bombs to Moss, over and over, and until expires. Great play calling right there. We have a good OC but he is like the Marino or Peyton of coordinators, he chokes in big games and if he gets flustered in-game we are screwed

 

[Rob0729]

What are you smoking?
Our defense in 2001 gave up tons of yards and points, and in 2003 and 2004 the defense gave up points late.
In all 3 championships it was not the defense that won it, our offense had to win at the end of every game.

Over the past 3 years we have had dominant defense, but our offense has failed at the end of games.

If you want to know why and whose fault it is, just take a look at the Superbowl, last drive we call a bunch of slow developing bombs to Moss, over and over, and until expires. Great play calling right there. We have a good OC but he is like the Marino or Peyton of coordinators, he chokes in big games and if he gets flustered in-game we are screwed

Yawn! I should have known you would show your ugly head and McDaniels bash the second I wrote that. You're boring now. Go argue with yourself. At least try to come up with some new material. Again, calling McDaniels the Marino or Peyton of OCs isn't exactly a diss.

 

[BradyManny]

If you want to know why and whose fault it is, just take a look at the Superbowl, last drive we call a bunch of slow developing bombs to Moss, over and over, and until expires. Great play calling right there. We have a good OC but he is like the Marino or Peyton of coordinators, he chokes in big games and if he gets flustered in-game we are screwed

I'm not huge on the offensive gameplan for the Super Bowl, but those bombs to Moss were the right play. After Brady got sacked as he was dropping back to pass on 2nd down, the game was over if they didn't complete a bomb.

And for the record, on 3rd down, Moss got open, and Brady unleashed an epic bomb. It was so damn close to being a completion, and Moss would've scurried in for a TD. It would've probably gone down as the single greatest play in history of football, and that thought kills me every time I think of it.

On a side note, if Moss had pulled up and tried to win it as a jump ball, we probably kick a FG and send it to overtime. Not second guessing, just pointing out another painful fact.

Either way, I fully support McD's decision on those last two plays of the game.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Over the past 3 years we have had dominant defense, but our offense has failed at the end of games.

I agree for '07 and '05. '06, that one is on the defense for sure. And the two offensive plays that killed us IMO were out of JM's control - Caldwell drop and the false start just before the 2 minute warning that cost us the first down that would have sealed it. Who would have thought out of all 3 years, '06 would be the year our offense does their part? The Reche Caldwell-led WR corps lol. JM definitely deserves some credit for that but unfortunately it goes unnoticed due to the defensive meltdown.

In response to the topic at hand, this year's defense might be doing okay in PA, HOWEVER:
1. All but 1 of those games we had AD, we don't have him for now and that changes alot.
2. Came against a relatively soft schedule in terms of opposing offenses. In the games where we were challenged by a good pass attack - Chargers, Colts, NYJ #2, our secondary got toasted pretty bad. Denver is the only exception. Favre wasn't settled in week 2. This defense at the moment is not reliable, maybe it will take time to adapt to life without AD, maybe we won't recover from his loss. But it needs work. First 3 possessions against the Jets = 17 points. Say all you want about the 3rd quarter, but a start like that in the playoffs 9 times out of 10 means you're season is over.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't know why I do this to myself. But to prove a point:

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/news/city_desk_wired/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/last_pass.jpg

That's how close we were to winning the Super Bowl thanks to that play call. That play call was THAT close to winning us the game.


Now, I'm going to go stare at that picture for a few minutes and then go cry in the corner of the office somewhere.

 

[mgteich]

Do we need a poll? We went 16-0 last year. Should we poll and ask who was most repsonsible for our success: offense, defense, equal?

We could take the same poll for each of the Super Bowl years.

 

[Rob0729]

Do we need a poll? We went 16-0 last year. Should we poll and ask who was most repsonsible for our success: offense, defense, equal?

We could take the same poll for each of the Super Bowl years.

Nah! It is an exercise in futility. That is why I am done arguing this McDaniels issue with maverick. I don't know how many times we can argue for or against that McDaniels is the only reason the Pats don't have 4, 5, or even 6 Super Bowl rings.

 

[maverick4]

I'm not huge on the offensive gameplan for the Super Bowl, but those bombs to Moss were the right play. After Brady got sacked as he was dropping back to pass on 2nd down, the game was over if they didn't complete a bomb.

And for the record, on 3rd down, Moss got open, and Brady unleashed an epic bomb. It was so damn close to being a completion, and Moss would've scurried in for a TD.

It's the same story over and over again to defend McDaniels. Every time we lose the blame is always on execution, always a 'what if' scenario that if [x] happened we surely would have won because McDaniels' play-calling was flawless to some of you. Whether it be 05, 06, 07, 08, the same story always emerges in which if execution only happened better we would have won. People use the same garbage excuse whenever Marino or Peyton routinely choke.

Brady was sacked on 2nd down because it was yet another slow developing bomb, a futile play call. We basically went for 4 straight hail mary's on the final drive. It was embarrassing to watch someone basically just give up and start calling plays like he was playing a Madden video game.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

....

Over the past 3 years we have had dominant defense, but our offense has failed at the end of games.

If you want to know why and whose fault it is, just take a look at the Superbowl, last drive we call a bunch of slow developing bombs to Moss, over and over, and until expires. Great play calling right there. We have a good OC but he is like the Marino or Peyton of coordinators, he chokes in big games and if he gets flustered in-game we are screwed

Classic bulletin board material to demonstrate what it means by :hijacked:



If experienced posters can't resist their temptation to bring out their pet peeves and theories in unrelated threads, how can we sit and moan about the newcomers spoiling the 'quality' of the board?