Do you see Pats ever having a 49ers' type slide ?

[PaulThePat]

When I first started watching the NFL over here in the UK in the 80's one of the dominant teams was the 49'rs. Whether it was Montana or Young they were one of the most feared teams in NFL history and 5 Superbowls were won. However, since 1999 San Francisco have had 2 winning seasons in 9 years with this year likely to make it 2 in 10.

What I've never really understood is how such a famous and successful franchise was allowed to slide so badly. I fully expect a downturn post Brady but I'd still be surprised to see us having 8 losing seasons in 10 years. Were there circumstances behind the 49'rs fall from grace which could be replicated here or do you think the structure in place at the Patriots should prevent a similar collapse

 

[smg93]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

So much of their slide was due to the introduction of the salary cap I believe. SF had lots of superstars on its payroll when the cap wasn't in effect. Because they had a team loaded with stars, they had a hard time adjusting to the cap which really is a totally different dynamic because now you have to make sure you've got the best 53 players instead of just the best superstars on your team.

So the answer to my mind is as long as BB and Pioli can continue the cap magic by fielding a solid 53 players, I don't see a slide (if any) in such a dramatic fashion as what's happened to the 49ers. The big question as you state as well is what happens after Brady retires. I know Matt's done a solid job this year and has surprised many, but he's still not Brady.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Biggest reason for Niners slide was leadership vacuum. When Debartolo was forced
out non-football people took over. Only way that happens here is is Bob Kraft
stops caring. I don't see that heppening.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Not anytime soon. Pats just had a great draft, added Jerod Mayo, and a great find with UDFA Guyton. This upcoming April, we could have as many as 11 picks if the compensation picks go our way, and more if we tag and trade Cassel. We're in good shape for the future.

And we have the league MVP coming back next year, at age 32, and QBs can perform well into their late 30s. See Kurt Warner, Brett Favre;.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Also the 49ers cap situation, after the cap came into being, caused them lots of long-term trouble. They restructured lots of deals to make them very long and cap-friendly, but ended up later devoting lots of cap space to "dead weight" players, i.e. not longer contributing or even with the team.

They also didn't draft well, but for a long time they paid for the fiscal irresponsibility that was intended to prolong their run as a good team.

They robbed from the future to feed the present. That seems like something the Patriots are loathe to do, hence the philosophy of always making draft day trades to stockpile better picks in future drafts, and also their hard-line stance on free agents and keeping salaries in line. There will be cycles, of course, because that is the nature of the draft system working with free agency and the cap, but the reasons that made the 49ers so desperately bad so soon after being good will not be in play for the Patriots.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Not for a while, this front office is too good for that to happen.

If we had a pretty good year this year, which we are, then we've proven we are ready for any upcoming challenge. Since the glory days, think of all the major contributors we've lost - Deion Branch, Willie Mac, Ted Johnson, Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, David Givens, Adam V, Rosey Colvin, Roman Phipher, Ted Washington, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Damien Woody and the list goes on (and on). Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison aren't what they were those days. The one player we thought was irreplacable had to be replaced this season and his replacement has us right in the thick of the playoff hunt. Our LB's seem to have been almost fully rebuilt now and good shape for the future and Merriweather seems like he's going to be a great safety for years to come. The Dline is still on the good side of 30.

It's hard to see this team having it's downfall anytime soon, MAYBE when our DL gets up there in age. Seymour was one of the top picks and Wilfork fell to us - IMO we caught a huge break with him. That's the only area I could see us having trouble replacing down the road. And it is our most crucial spot on defense.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Bob Kraft is too much of a fan to let it happen, when BB is done he will anoint his successor and there will be a continuation.. if Pioli is not lured away he will be in his role for years.. and if he goes there will be a plan for a successor.. Kraft likes success and the business part of this, and this will not be tarnished even when Jonathan takes over.

 

[Lifer]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Is this serious? "How could the 49er slide happen"??

Exactly how many dynasties in sports history lasted as long or longer than the 49ers 18 year run from 1981 thru 1998? Even the Yankees and Canadiens had down periods.

This is such a perfect example of the negative mentality still of the Boston sports fan.
Yeah, the 49ers choked it up, right? Well, guess what, every sports team has a shelf life. Its the nature of sports, a run comes and if you are lucky you can sustain it for 5 or 8 or 12 or if you are incredibly lucky, a HOF QB like Steve Young takes over for a HOF QB like Joe Montana and you go 18 years.

At some point, despite the brilliance of Bob Kraft, the New England Patriots will have their down cycle. Either because of age, Bill Belichick leaving, Tom Brady leaving...a run like this cannot be expected to continue forever. Saying Belichick will just simply be replaced minimizes how good Bill Belichick is. We can either appreciate what we have and what we had or we can act all put upon when it ends and, as I suspect, half the frontrunning fanbase will leave like rats on a sinking ship.

good grief.

 

[alamo]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Is this serious? "How could the 49er slide happen"??

Exactly how many dynasties in sports history lasted as long or longer than the 49ers 18 year run from 1981 thru 1998? Even the Yankees and Canadiens had down periods.

This is such a perfect example of the negative mentality still of the Boston sports fan.
Yeah, the 49ers choked it up, right? Well, guess what, every sports team has a shelf life. Its the nature of sports, a run comes and if you are lucky you can sustain it for 5 or 8 or 12 or if you are incredibly lucky, a HOF QB like Steve Young takes over for a HOF QB like Joe Montana and you go 18 years.

At some point, despite the brilliance of Bob Kraft, the New England Patriots will have their down cycle. Either because of age, Bill Belichick leaving, Tom Brady leaving...a run like this cannot be expected to continue forever. Saying Belichick will just simply be replaced minimizes how good Bill Belichick is. We can either appreciate what we have and what we had or we can act all put upon when it ends and, as I suspect, half the frontrunning fanbase will leave like rats on a sinking ship.

good grief.

What a ridiculous message. It completely ignores the fact that SF's last decade is not just a down cycle, it is the result of a MAJOR change in ownership (DeBartolo's banishment), and this change removed at the same time almost everyone who had been responsible for their success.

Not many diehard 49ers fans blame the more casual 49ers fans who are disgusted by all of this. In your rush to criticize Pats fans you got it all wrong.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

The answer is "no" and the reason is Kraft.

 

[Lifer]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

What a ridiculous message. It completely ignores the fact that SF's last decade is not just a down cycle, it is the result of a MAJOR change in ownership (DeBartolo's banishment), and this change removed at the same time almost everyone who had been responsible for their success.

Not many diehard 49ers fans blame the more casual 49ers fans who are disgusted by all of this. In your rush to criticize Pats fans you got it all wrong.

2 different arguements. if the Patriots are simply awful for 10 years then i can see your point, but if the question is, will the Patriots run end? Will they have the downslide every other dynasty in sports history has had? Then, Yes, they absolutely will, despite the fact that Robert Kraft is perfect.

And I suspect that when they have an 8-8 season, followed up by 7-9 or 6-10, people around here wont be patient at all and will call for Bill Belichicks blood for ruining their lives.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

What a ridiculous message. It completely ignores the fact that SF's last decade is not just a down cycle, it is the result of a MAJOR change in ownership (DeBartolo's banishment), and this change removed at the same time almost everyone who had been responsible for their success.

Not many diehard 49ers fans blame the more casual 49ers fans who are disgusted by all of this. In your rush to criticize Pats fans you got it all wrong.

Bingo!

When Denise Debartolo-York took over the team, she put her dufus husband John in charge. He's slowly getting better, but he's been a trainwreck for the most part. There was a story from a few years ago that a player dropped off a letter in the executive office and the player got billed 37 cents for the stamp. Who the heck wants to work for an organization like that?

Bill Belichick won't always be around. Ditto Scott Pioli. However, I trust Bob Kraft to be a competent owner and hire the next best coaches/front office available, especially after the lessons he has learned from both the Pete Carroll and BB eras.

If Kraft ever sold the team to the next Victor Kiam, then start looking for the downswing. Success isn't decided at the top, but that's where it starts. Bad owners are a lousy starting point to build a winner.

Regards,
Chris

 

[alamo]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

And I suspect that when they have an 8-8 season, followed up by 7-9 or 6-10, people around here wont be patient at all and will call for Bill Belichicks blood for ruining their lives.

History of other dynasties says that as long as Belichick is running things that is extremely unlikely to happen. Dallas lost Johnson, 49ers lost DeBartolo/Walsh/Carmen Policy, Packers lost Lombardi, etc. Only recent major exception I can think of is Chuck Noll.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

History of other dynasties says that as long as Belichick is running things that is extremely unlikely to happen. Dallas lost Johnson, 49ers lost DeBartolo/Walsh/Carmen Policy, Packers lost Lombardi, etc. Only recent major exception I can think of is Chuck Noll.

And that's because the ownership culture was strong enuf to mitigate the loss.

 

[alamo]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Only recent major exception I can think of is Chuck Noll.

I just remembered what the Steelers lost to end their dynasty: steroids.

 

[Lifer]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

History of other dynasties says that as long as Belichick is running things that is extremely unlikely to happen. Dallas lost Johnson, 49ers lost DeBartolo/Walsh/Carmen Policy, Packers lost Lombardi, etc. Only recent major exception I can think of is Chuck Noll.

first off, it was asked "Do you see Pats EVER having a 49ers type slide"

are you assuming that Belichick is NEVER going to leave?

secondly, plenty of dynasties faded even when the genius remained there.
Tom Landry. Don Shula. Chuck Noll.

Name me the ones that never faded. The 49ers lasted longer than all of them in football because they replaced the franchise QB with another franchise QB.

No sports dynasty has avoided the downturn cycle. To expect otherwise is to totally minimize the accomplishment that has already been achieved.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Biggest reason for Niners slide was leadership vacuum. When Debartolo was forced
out non-football people took over. Only way that happens here is is Bob Kraft
stops caring. I don't see that heppening.

:ditto:

Yep. That says it all. The cap played a role, but dismal management was the biggest culprit.

As long as the Krafts continue to remain engaged in the management of the team and truly care about fielding a "competitive" team every year(which is how they describe their objective for the franchise), then it's hard to imagine the Pats going through a slide like the Niners'.

However, that doesn't mean that the Pats will go to five of the next seven AFCCG's, as they have since 2001, after Brady and/or Belichick are/is gone, but it does mean that it is highly unlikely the team would become an embarassment.

 

[PaulThePat]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

No sports dynasty has avoided the downturn cycle.

Jeesh. Of course the Pats will have a down cycle. However, for me 8 losing seasons in 10 years for a dynasty like the 49'rs is a hell of a lot more than a down cycle...it's a major abuse of one of the NFL's premier franchises. The point of this post was to simply find out the reasons for San Frans recent history and hope that the Pats would not make the same mistakes

 

[Lifer]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

Jeesh. Of course the Pats will have a down cycle. However, for me 8 losing seasons in 10 years for a dynasty like the 49'rs is a hell of a lot more than a down cycle...it's a major abuse of one of the NFL's premier franchises. The point of this post was to simply find out the reasons for San Frans recent history and hope that the Pats would not make the same mistakes

"Oh...well thats different. Never mind."

- Emily Latella, SNL 1970's

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Re: Do you see Pats ever having a 49'rs type slide ?

I don't think so I mean obviously there will eventually be years of mediocrity (like this one) and probably eventually some bad years but we've got a great owner and BB.

Probably the one thing that worked out in our favor from Spy gate is that I think it has ensured that Belichick will most likely NEVER work with ANY other team but the Pats, barring some huge unseen fued between Kraft and BB, but I could see BB retiring from coaching and just sticking around as our GM a la Bill Walsh (And Tuna kinda except he's a whore with no loyalty to any organization)