Anyone miss the old Patriots?

[PatsWickedPissah]

Given the sudden emergence of the Kindergarten Corps at LB as a force I'd say we're one hard hiting safety and one better coverage CB away from having a dominant D. No reason those folks can't be added in the spring of '09.

 

[Rob0729]

The Pats made the playoffs in 2005 even after they lost Bruschi, the heart of the defense then, to a stroke for much of the season. The team made it to the AFC Championship game in 2006 despite having no legitimate number 1 receiver.

Yeah, people forget that even many Pats fans were writing this team off in September of 2006 when the Pats traded away Branch. Most Pats fans wrote off this season when Brady went down. How many "The Pats can't get to the playoffs with Cassel" or "This team won't win six games with Cassel" threads were there in September.

This team is doing what would be impossible for most teams, they lost their franchise QB, best defensive player, team captain on defense, top three RBs, struggled with injuries on the o-line, and still have a winning record after 10 games and are only one game out of the division race.

 

[Rob0729]

Given the sudden emergence of the Kindergarten Corps at LB as a force I'd say we're one hard hiting safety and one better coverage CB away from having a dominant D. No reason those folks can't be added in the spring of '09.

I agree. This defense is only a few pieces away from being a dominant defense again.

 

[maverick4]

Even if we get back to a dominant D, we still need an offense that makes plays at the end of games. From 01-04 our defense gave up huge points at the end and our offense had to win it. Our offense pulled through from 01-4 but from 05-08, with even better offensive talent and Brady at the controls, we have come up short because of the offensive coordinator.

 

[aluminum seats]

Odd thread, with the comparison to the Colts simply being random. Look, the Pats haven't won the whole thing for 3 seasons, so you can say whatever you want. But every year is different, and in the important ways the Pats have been defined--high-character guys (nobody being a distraction or an a-hole), playing as a team, guys stepping up (a certain QB), etc., they are in fact the same old Pats.

 

[maverick4]

We whine just like Colts fans now about execution, or the refs, or blame a few players.

It is never the Offensive God Coordinator's fault, it is always not executing his "perfect game plan".

 

[Rob0729]

We whine just like Colts fans now about execution, or the refs, or blame a few players.

It is never the Offensive God Coordinator's fault, it is always not executing his "perfect game plan".

Seriously, do you really have to try to turn every thread into a bash Josh McDaniels thread? Do you wake up every morning and try to figure out ways to make yourself a bigger baffoon than NEM was with the bashing of McDaniels.

So apparently this is your new post that you will repeat over and over again. I guess when I explained to you that calling McDaniels the Gen X version of Norv Turner wasn't exactly a diss for an OC, you had to find something new.

 

[Rob0729]

Odd thread, with the comparison to the Colts simply being random. Look, the Pats haven't won the whole thing for 3 seasons, so you can say whatever you want. But every year is different, and in the important ways the Pats have been defined--high-character guys (nobody being a distraction or an a-hole), playing as a team, guys stepping up (a certain QB), etc., they are in fact the same old Pats.

I agree. The Colts comparison is way off. The Colts built a team entirely around their offense. Until Freeney and Sanders, they would pay whatever to keep their offensive talent not a RB and let all the best defensive players bolt. That wasn't what the Pats did. The Colts were never really built for the playoffs. Hence why Polian pushed for a re-emphasis of the 5 yard chuck rule to make them less at a disadvantage in the playoffs.

Yes, the Pats haven't won the Super Bowl in three seasons. But the 49ers went four years between their second and third Super Bowl (with a playoff record of 0-3 during that time) and 5 seasons between their third and fourth Super Bowl (with a playoff record of 3-3 and one year without a playoff appearance during that time). So the run is not neccessarily over.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That is the largest pile of manure I have seen..you never liked the line up of a team that went 18-1?? you are either a complete troll..or know zilch about the game...nuff from you...go follow another team...maybe the NY football giants who you seem to go gaga over..

i just prefer watching the 2004 patriots. hard hitting, smart defensively. they forced turnovers. they weren't bend or break like we were last year. and on offense, it was run the ball and get timely touch downs. the end of the story is we didn't win the super bowl and we are a year older now without brady to lead us back to another championship. as far as the giants are concerned, they are what the patriots used to be. like it or not, our failure to stop them on that last drive (83 yards) has given them confidence and they will be a contender for the next several years.

 

[belichickaholic]

The only problem with this years team compared to other years is that they're playing so many young guys. And young guys make mistakes. Have faith. The kids are starting to get it. As the year goes on, they'll get stronger and make less mistakes. But the question is, do they have enough time. They have to play mistake free these next two weeks. If they can somehow pull out wins these next two games they'll be a pretty tough out the rest of the way.

 

[aluminum seats]

Yes, the Pats haven't won the Super Bowl in three seasons. But the 49ers went four years between their second and third Super Bowl (with a playoff record of 0-3 during that time) and 5 seasons between their third and fourth Super Bowl (with a playoff record of 3-3 and one year without a playoff appearance during that time). So the run is not neccessarily over.

I had forgotten about those long gaps with the 49ers....that's kind of reassuring.

 

[ManningOverratedHick]

My comparison to the Colts was like some other people said...an offense first team and tendency not to win the big game, not about their QB throwing teammates under the bus and a self-righteous coach.

Everyone here knows I'm a Brady ball-washer and loved seeing him prove the few critics left wrong that he could have a record-breaking season if given a Manning-like receiving corps, but like TommyBrady said, I enjoyed the 04 season with the balanced attack. It wasn't just the defense, it was the most efficent (not the best, but efficient) offense I've ever seen or had the pleasure of watching. Dillon ran for about 12 TDs, Brady threw for 28, and you had arguably the best 1/2 QB/RB punch in the game.

The Giants have become, from the games I've watched, what the Patriots were. Manning isn't quite at Brady 04 Level yet, but he's looking like it. Jacobs is a beast. The defense is tough, even in an era with rule-changes that favor the offense.

And for the person who said I lost interest in the season when Brady went down, I did somewhat, but like I said, I'm watching the games, having a fun time watching Cassel progress. Other than one overthrow to a wide open Moss, he looked Brady-like against the Jets. I think the "Should we keep Cassel over Brady" people are what-have-you-done-for-me-lately overreactors, but I think Cassel has exceeded everyone's expectations.

My point was that the 04 team in particular, while not perfect (I mean, let's face it, they should have blown out that Eagles team in the Super Bowl after embarrasing a much more difficult Indy and Pittsburgh team, but a win is a win) was my favorite to watch. Seeing Brady, even next year, throw 4 TD passes and winning 34-28 type of games is fun, but it won't probably get you the ring at the end of the year. It never has. It's why Marino never won and why Peyton has managed one in 10 years.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I miss the old, physical, "no one respects us" Patriots. I miss Ty Law picking off Kurt Warner in his prime. I miss David Patten, David Givens, and even Daniel Graham. I liked when people feared the Patriots and knew that when they came to Foxboro, they were going to get a wall-balanced, physical game and teams were afraid to catch the ball against our defenders. Now teams look forward to shredding our secondary and running over Bruschi and Vrabel.

Thank BB and Scott Pioli for for taking so long to improving the LB's and secondary. In fact, they really haven't improved the secondary at all since Law, Milloy, Smith and Poole left.

It's not just that they were winning SBs, it was the way they were winning. I've never had a more fun time in my life watching a team than watching the 2001-2004 Pats. Sure, Brady turning into an all-time great to possibly the greatest ever not named Montana has been great to watch, but I miss his 3,700 28 TD, 14 INT seasons with Corey Dillon running physically for 1,600 yards.

It was fun to watch because the Pats where finally getting back over the hump that was Buffalo, Miami and NY. '04 was my favorite year when Corey Dillon was laying the smackdown on defenses every week. In fact, he would have led the league in rushing that year had he not missed his only game in Pittsburgh.

This new Patriots team, Brady, Cassel, whoever at quarterback, is just "another good team." A team that other teams feel they can beat any week, especially now that Brady is out. Even with a 100% healthy Brady, teams feel like the defense is a soft, swiss cheese defense with a lot of holes. We have possibly the two most overrated players in the game in Matt "Turnstile" Light and Richard Seymour, two guys that get by more on their name than their playing ability and an offensive coordinator who makes Mike Martz look like Einstein.

Again, thank BB and Scott Pioli for making that defense soft. They had plenty of chances through the draft and free agency to go for defense but they didn't. As far as Matt Light and Seymour is concerned, Light has his problems with speed rushers and Seymour is playing a lot better than has in recent seasons. Overall their good players but they shouldn't be considered the best at their positions.

I miss the efficient, non-flashy Brady, rough, physical defense, original playcalling days. Does that mean I don't watch the games anymore? No. But this team has basically become what we hated for all these years...the Colts. And like the Colts, we have no championships to show for it.

Last time I checked, Brady was pretty damn efficient since the last time they won a superbowl.

But to answer your question, I don't miss the old Patriots. I like the "us against the world" mentality that was brought to them after "spy gate". First, teams didn't take the Pats seriously, now every teams hate them and wants to beat their brains out.

 

[Bonzo]

Yes, the Pats haven't won the Super Bowl in three seasons. But the 49ers went four years between their second and third Super Bowl (with a playoff record of 0-3 during that time) and 5 seasons between their third and fourth Super Bowl (with a playoff record of 3-3 and one year without a playoff appearance during that time). So the run is not neccessarily over.

I argue this point often.

Moreover, I feel that the Patriots business model is that in the salary-cap era best engineered for the team to remain consistently both competitive and reloading--that is, not gambling the future for a single season--year in and year out.

In the National Parity League, coaching and resource management are at a premium, and in these, the Pats excel.

 

[maverick4]

That is why we need to go back to a punishing defense and a timely offense.

Keep McDaniels out of the draft room. No more wasting high draft choices on sexy WR's and RB's when you can pick up good cheap WR or RB in later rounds or in free agency.

Also McDaniels needs to stop thinking we are the Colts. Our best days were when we were a ball control, pound the rock offense, who deployed play action and mismatches.

I am tired of hearing Pats fans sound like Colts fans in their obsession over monster offensive stats, and then every time we come up short in the playoffs we blame it on execution or throw players under the bus.

 

[Rob0729]

That is why we need to go back to a punishing defense and a timely offense.

Keep McDaniels out of the draft room. No more wasting high draft choices on sexy WR's and RB's when you can pick up good cheap WR or RB in later rounds or in free agency.

Also McDaniels needs to stop thinking we are the Colts. Our best days were when we were a ball control, pound the rock offense, who deployed play action and mismatches.

I am tired of hearing Pats fans sound like Colts fans in their obsession over monster offensive stats, and then every time we come up short in the playoffs we blame it on execution or throw players under the bus.

Why not just put the Colts fan crap as your signiture and stop wasting people's time reading the same old crap over and over again, NEM Jr?

Everyone gets it. You are qa McDaniels basher who lacks any objectivity on the subject. Is really neccessary to post the same crap multiple times in the same thread? Really?!? It wasn't all that insightful the first thirty or so times ypu posted it.

BTW, who ever said it was McDaniels' decision on who to draft. It is Belichick's and Pioli's decision. That must mean the Weis drafted Bethel Johnson and JR Redmond who were both also busts. Except OCs don't make draft picks. GMs and Head Coaches do.

 

[maverick4]

You are qa McDaniels basher who lacks any objectivity on the subject.

You are so far up in McDaniels' nuts it's not even funny.

Rob0729 is the same poster who said if McDaniels coached from 01-04 the Pats would have beaten the Rams comfortably in the Superbowl and would have won *at least* 3 Superbowls.

The guy is a Colts fan accidentally cheering for the Pats, he is obsessed with offensive stats, and every time the Pats lose it is never his Offensive Coordinator God's fault. You always think McDaniels comes in with a 'perfect' game plan, and the only reason we lose is the all-star offense didn't execute, or you like to throw players under the bus.

We don't need Colts-like fans like Rob0729, they are a complete JOKE.

 

[pats1]

The health of the running game is the determining factor. When Maroney and Morris go down, it is going to be tough to win. Period. The running game is becoming critical again in the NFL. Just look at the Giants. We're back to having 3 great RBs (a twist on the RB/FB duos from before). The teams that are winning when it matters in this league have running games and defenses. Except the Vikings.

 

[Rob0729]

You are so far up in McDaniels' nuts it's not even funny.

Rob0729 is the same poster who said if McDaniels coached from 01-04 the Pats would have beaten the Rams comfortably in the Superbowl and would have won *at least* 3 Superbowls.

The guy is a Colts fan accidentally cheering for the Pats, he is obsessed with offensive stats, and every time the Pats lose it is never his Offensive Coordinator God's fault. You always think McDaniels comes in with a 'perfect' game plan, and the only reason we lose is the all-star offense didn't execute, or you like to throw players under the bus.

We don't need Colts-like fans like Rob0729, they are a complete JOKE.

LOL! I really get you going don't I good. It is nice to see that I can send you futher into a stupid rant pretty easily. Even then, you can't come up with any new material and just rehash the same old crap. Good for you.