As I was saying...

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm looking for a Day One TE who can stretch the field, block like an O-lineman, and catch like Wes Welker. Call me disappointed with the TE production this season. :snob:

 

[BradyManny]

Last nite was the first game this season Watson looked like the threat we expected, catching 8 balls for 88 yards...unfortunately he also coughed up a fumble in an extremely key situation. I'd probably blame it on a slick ball if it weren't for the fact that he's never been as sure-handed as one would like.

So, yeah, I agree - Day 1 Tight End is likely. But, with other positions, I wouldn't necessarily call it a "need" as much as a "want".

 

[fester]

Any decent veteran TEs who are available who meet the criteria --- for as I am seeing it there are at least 5 or 6 'need' to 'really want' position/role choices for the first three picks (1, SD #2 and 2) in a #1 CB, SS, TE, RT, OLB with serious pass rush capacity and potentially a guard... where do we fill in some of those needs/wants with free agents, which players are already on the roster that will grow into at least one or two of those roles...

So what are the Pats' options?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Watson has the talent but he is maddeningly inconsistent. The big fumble after catch vs the Jets comes to mind there... Honestly I just don't know what to think of our tight ends. Watson has the tools but how often does he get it done? And Thomas might as well be the invisible man out there. Even though we know he has displayed good hands in training camps.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Last nite was the first game this season Watson looked like the threat we expected, catching 8 balls for 88 yards...unfortunately he also coughed up a fumble in an extremely key situation. I'd probably blame it on a slick ball if it weren't for the fact that he's never been as sure-handed as one would like.

So, yeah, I agree - Day 1 Tight End is likely. But, with other positions, I wouldn't necessarily call it a "need" as much as a "want".

I do not see any 1st round TE's in this draft, maybe someone will overdraft a Pettigrew or the kid from Oklahoma.

But for my money, we need to look long and hard at Coffman in round 2. He is huge, 6'6" and 250 lbs. but not very athletic. However he runs good routes and has above average hands.
The down side is his blocking or more specifically a lack thereof and secondly, he has played his entire career in that funky Mizzu offense.

Bottom line is a year or two with Woicik and Mangurian and he will be an adequate blocker but also a better route runner and receiver than Thomas or Ben "can't do 16 games a season" Watson.

 

[BradyManny]

I do not see any 1st round TE's in this draft, maybe someone will overdraft a Pettigrew or the kid from Oklahoma.

But for my money, we need to look long and hard at Coffman in round 2. He is huge, 6'6" and 250 lbs. but not very athletic. However he runs good routes and has above average hands.
The down side is his blocking or more specifically a lack thereof and secondly, he has played his entire career in that funky Mizzu offense.

Good stuff.

The Pats aren't a team that is overly concerned with disguising whether they are going to run or pass, particularly when TFB is behind center. So, IMO, not having the blocking TE and the pass catching TE be one and the same is not a huge deal. If we used a Day 1 pick to grab a guy who can run good routes and catch the ball, we could use Day 2 to get a bigger TE with noted blocking skills....though I know BOR's response - as his original post implies - will be in favor of getting one player who can do both.

Thomas and Watson have both improved in the blocking department as far as I can tell, but neither is Daniel Graham.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Good stuff.

The Pats aren't a team that is overly concerned with disguising whether they are going to run or pass, particularly when TFB is behind center. So, IMO, not having the blocking TE and the pass catching TE be one and the same is not a huge deal. If we used a Day 1 pick to grab a guy who can run good routes and catch the ball, we could use Day 2 to get a bigger TE with noted blocking skills....though I know BOR's response - as his original post implies - will be in favor of getting one player who can do both.

Thomas and Watson have both improved in the blocking department as far as I can tell, but neither is Daniel Graham.

Colleges are not producing big blocking TE's anymore. They are very hard to find and even those that are good blockers on the college level still have to adjust to the NFL. I think if you get a big pass receiver who has courage, then you can refine his blocking ability in the pros.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thomas was a pretty decent blocker as a rookie, he struggled to start the year, but seems to be getting his act together since. Watson has always started slow, needing a couple games under his belt before he starts to develop as an adequate blocker. My biggest gripe with Watson is the disconnect between his head and his hands. In general Cassel and Thomas seem to play well together, though I think that is slipping a bit as Matt gets more reps with Watson.

 

[Seneschal2]

But for my money, we need to look long and hard at Coffman in round 2. He is huge, 6'6" and 250 lbs. but not very athletic. However he runs good routes and has above average hands.
The down side is his blocking or more specifically a lack thereof and secondly, he has played his entire career in that funky Mizzu offense.

Bottom line is a year or two with Woicik and Mangurian and he will be an adequate blocker but also a better route runner and receiver than Thomas or Ben "can't do 16 games a season" Watson.

IMO, Coffman is the only TE in this draft for the Pats. He's a natural pass catcher (unlike Watson), and his route running ability won't need to be taught (see Watson). He's caught more passes and TDs than the college careers of both Watson and Graham combined. Fact is, he knows how to play the position, and because of his skills, will need less developmental time.

His in-line blocking isn't a worry -- it's a mystery. I'd rather take my chances on teaching him blocking techniques, than drafting him in the hope he could learn how to run routes.

Belichick has been known to address any glaring weaknesses via FA or the draft. Thus far, RZ production hasn't been easy. Two ways to improve the production are with the running game, and larger receiving targets. Next season, the RB corps ought to be very solid -- and not a concern. But Moss is the only reliable large target in the EZ. Having another receiver available in that congested area who has the height, hands, and ability to get open, IMO -- is a priority. I doubt BB fails to address this concern.

Coffman is one of a few good TEs in this draft, but I think he fits the Pats best. I don't sense he'll light up the Combine, therefore keeping him out of round one. I'm guessing he won't see round three.

 

[cstjohn17]

I just want one who can drop into the open zone 5 yards down the field (see Kevin Boss as your role model), some better in-line blocking would be nice as well. Keller has all world speed but it wasn't like he was torching the Patriots for 20+ yards at a time. The LBs dropped too deep and he would eat up the garbage in front of them, like taking candy from a baby.

I don't see the need to draft a TE on day 1, they need a way to get an impact player on defense. Dansby, Suggs or Asomugha are my pipe dreams.

 

[cstjohn17]

Thought about this some more, although Watson has been a slightly above average TE and Thomas has potential I rate both of these picks among the worst in the past several years. They were both 'glory' picks, the team had adequate depth at TE when both players were selected yet ignored more obvious pressing concerns. In 04 with Watson the Pats could have had Bob Sanders.

I can't think of a single TE drafted in round 1 that has truly made an impact, beyond what a 5th rounder could do. Winslow has been good but also missed a lot of time. TE is a tough guy position, staying on the field is half the battle.

Put me in the 'No first round TEs' club...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thought about this some more, although Watson has been a slightly above average TE and Thomas has potential I rate both of these picks among the worst in the past several years. They were both 'glory' picks, the team had adequate depth at TE when both players were selected yet ignored more obvious pressing concerns. In 04 with Watson the Pats could have had Bob Sanders.

I can't think of a single TE drafted in round 1 that has truly made an impact, beyond what a 5th rounder could do. Winslow has been good but also missed a lot of time. TE is a tough guy position, staying on the field is half the battle.

Put me in the 'No first round TEs' club...

Yes, TE is a "tough guy" position. They weigh in around 250-260 and block in-line against guys weighing up to 350 lbs. They do most of their work in the middle of the field where the defense's heavy hitters - Linebackers, Safeties - roam. They are quite often a safety valve for the QB, which puts them directly in the defense's bullseye. There's a reason BB has tried to go three deep with a developing TE on the Practice Squad. Day One (rounds one and two) is where I want to see BB shopping for a player with the talent to make plays and the toughness to wham block a Jenkins or go head to head with Dwight Freeney.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the pats offense lost its toughness the moment daniel graham left..........

not saying they should have paid him, but he had the size and attitude to abuse 4-3 DE's.......he was not a bad pick, and proved his worth in ways other than in pass-catching stats........

jared bronson may be good value.....good size, good hands

 

[captain stone]

Thought about this some more, although Watson has been a slightly above average TE and Thomas has potential I rate both of these picks among the worst in the past several years. They were both 'glory' picks, the team had adequate depth at TE when both players were selected yet ignored more obvious pressing concerns. In 04 with Watson the Pats could have had Bob Sanders.

I can't think of a single TE drafted in round 1 that has truly made an impact, beyond what a 5th rounder could do. Winslow has been good but also missed a lot of time. TE is a tough guy position, staying on the field is half the battle.

Put me in the 'No first round TEs' club...

Put me in that club, too.

The NEP have far, far too many actual needs to be wasting their time drafting a Day 1 (first 2 rounds now) TE. The NEP need a blocking TE more than they need a pass-catching-only TE, and blocking TEs can be acquired throughout the draft and post-draft. The FO just needs to do the work to find one.

 

[BradyManny]

I've been thinking - What about grabbing a stopgap TE in free agency? That would let them see how the Thomas and Watson situations play out, and they can then address the need in the 2010 draft with more information on the future of that position. They could look for what they saw in Kyle Brady, a guy who can make their running game more effective and pass protect (although it turned out K. Brady couldn't do that so much anymore).

Mark Campbell is a UFA for the Saints. Ravens' Quinn Sypniewski is coming off an ACL injury, he's noted as a good blocker, Pats could take a flier on him if he's healthy. Will Heller, another guy noted as a good blocking TE with good size is a UFA for the Seahawks.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I've been thinking - What about grabbing a stopgap TE in free agency? That would let them see how the Thomas and Watson situations play out, and they can then address the need in the 2010 draft with more information on the future of that position. They could look for what they saw in Kyle Brady, a guy who can make their running game more effective and pass protect (although it turned out K. Brady couldn't do that so much anymore).

Mark Campbell is a UFA for the Saints. Ravens' Quinn Sypniewski is coming off an ACL injury, he's noted as a good blocker, Pats could take a flier on him if he's healthy. Will Heller, another guy noted as a good blocking TE with good size is a UFA for the Seahawks.

I liked Sypniewski as a late round TE when he came out, the problem with an ACL injury for a receiver or RB is they have to cut more than a QB does, so his first year may be very limited.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

the pats offense lost its toughness the moment daniel graham left..........

not saying they should have paid him, but he had the size and attitude to abuse 4-3 DE's.......he was not a bad pick, and proved his worth in ways other than in pass-catching stats........

jared bronson may be good value.....good size, good hands

The key word is "attitude." Watson and Thomas both have the same size Graham had, they just don't seem to have that same nasty attitude he used to match defender's intensity.

 

[BradyManny]

I liked Sypniewski as a late round TE when he came out, the problem with an ACL injury for a receiver or RB is they have to cut more than a QB does, so his first year may be very limited.

True, but I believe the injury happened during TC, so he should have plenty of rehab time at least.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

The key word is "attitude." Watson and Thomas both have the same size Graham had, they just don't seem to have that same nasty attitude he used to match defender's intensity.

that is incorrect........graham's regular playing weight with the pats was around 270lbs, and he's much stronger than either, especially in the legs........watson is in the low 250's and thomas is in the high 240's

yes, he had the attitude, also, but he is bigger and stronger than eithe guy the pats have now

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

that is incorrect........graham's regular playing weight with the pats was around 270lbs, and he's much stronger than either, especially in the legs........watson is in the low 250's and thomas is in the high 240's

yes, he had the attitude, also, but he is bigger and stronger than eithe guy the pats have now

Presumably you have access to data not published by the Patriots: Official New England Patriots - Team - Roster Reports

Graham: 6'3" 257 (For his Combine he was measured at 6'3" 248)
Thomas: 6'3" 248 (For his Combine he was measured at 6'3" 252)
Watson: 6'3" 255 (For his Combine he was measured at 6'3" 258)

For his first year, the Pats listed Graham at 6'3" 253. Official New England Patriots - Team - Roster Reports

It is entirely likely the Pats don't provide accurate data on the roster sheet regarding a player's actual weight and height, but looking at Graham and Watson side-by-side I never noticed one to be more imposing physically than the other. Kyle Brady was listed at 6'6" 280, he looked like the Hulk next to Watson.