NFL Truth, Answer the Questions.

[JaxPats]

1) What team do you have allegiance too?
2) Why do you come here and bring up the past?
3) What is your motive for doing so?
4) Do you have a problem with accepting that the Patriots broke a rule ( and paid the price) and do you really think no other team has ever broke a rule?
5) Do you hate the Pats?

I'm betting you can't answer them honestly.:snob:

 

[NFL_Truth]

1) What team do you have allegiance too?
2) Why do you come here and bring up the past?
3) What is your motive for doing so?
4) Do you have a problem with accepting that the Patriots broke a rule ( and paid the price) and do you really think no other team has ever broke a rule?
5) Do you hate the Pats?

I'm betting you can't answer them honestly.:snob:

You could have just posted this in the post designated for this but since you took the time, absolutley mate, I'll answer anything you ask, honestly too.

1) The team i have allegiance too is the Minnesota Vikings. So you could say Im a fan who was probably least directly effected by spygate. But when I saw how big it was and what happened as a result, just being a fan of the league and its history, I had to speak out against it.

2) I've come on here and discussed past events because i've heard what fans of the other 31 teams think, they agree with me which is fine so i wanted to hear what real patriots fans thought without simply assuming for myself.

3) My motive for doing so is a few things. I have felt that the Patriots and their fans who chose to play spygate down, not accept the truth, accuse other teams without foundation to lessen their own actions, and who can be straight up rude need to hear the other side as well. I've heard every argumemt posted on this board thousands of times. In real life though people just get angry and walk away, on the board it gives the chance to discuss this. I honestly was not planning to stay nearly as long but as soon as the rude comments and excuses started pouring it, I knew i needed to stay.

4) There is nothing i have an issue accepting. I do know they broke a rule but severely cheated in the process. What they did messes with the integrity of the sport I love, cost other teams games, players their positions, etc. As far as their punishment, I like most others see it as a slap on the wrist and a sweep under the carpet as the punishment was not even on the same stratosphere as the crime. I do not think the pats are the only team to ever break a rule. Rules get broken all the time but spying, videotaping, and jamming signals goes far beyond simply breaking a rule. Do i think they are the first team to ever cheat? No, and as i said any team that has cheated deserves to face the punishment, even if it was the vikings. But i certainly see them as the only team to ever cheat to this extent and they certainly reaped the rewards of that.

5) Hate is an awfully strong word that gets thrown around way too much. The minute you say something bad about a team they label you as a "hater" with zero foundation. That's just attempting to question my character and bias in order to make my accusations seem influenced therefore less accurate. But i'm certainly no hater. For many years I always respected the Patriots, no question. I never thought Brady was as good as Manning, but beyond that I felt they had the best team, they were winners, etc. But after seeing all the dirty things they had been doing for years, seeing the way they acted in the 2006 divisional game vs SD, pushing LT around in a circle, dancing. Seeing how Belichick refused to shake Manning's hand after the 18-point comeback in 06 when I remember seeing Manning shake his hand in defeat in 2003. Seeing some of their players arrested for drugs, Harrison for HGH, Wilfork getting off without suspensions for dirty hits...You see this list could go on and on and you'd just call it "hating" but its not. Its disappointing for me to see a team i once respected exposed like this. So of course the combination of such behavior is disgusting and disgraceful. But to answer your question, No, I don't hate the Patriots but I do very much dislike what they've done and how they carry themselves.

 

[LeonPowe]

How long have you been watching football?

 

[NFL_Truth]

How long have you been watching football?

12 years......

 

[DaBruinz]

You could have just posted this in the post designated for this but since you took the time, absolutley mate, I'll answer anything you ask, honestly too.

1) The team i have allegiance too is the Minnesota Vikings. So you could say Im a fan who was probably least directly effected by spygate. But when I saw how big it was and what happened as a result, just being a fan of the league and its history, I had to speak out against it.

Do you regularly speak out about things that you are mis-informed about? Do you regularly not check your facts before getting into a conversation on a topic?

2) I've come on here and discussed past events because i've heard what fans of the other 31 teams think, they agree with me which is fine so i wanted to hear what real patriots fans thought without simply assuming for myself.

You've heard what a select few fans of other teams have voiced their opinions on. Based on your posting style, you've ignored the ones who are against your ludicrous claims.

3) My motive for doing so is a few things. I have felt that the Patriots and their fans who chose to play spygate down, not accept the truth, accuse other teams without foundation to lessen their own actions, and who can be straight up rude need to hear the other side as well. I've heard every argumemt posted on this board thousands of times. In real life though people just get angry and walk away, on the board it gives the chance to discuss this. I honestly was not planning to stay nearly as long but as soon as the rude comments and excuses started pouring it, I knew i needed to stay.

You've already proven you don't know or understand the truth. You've proven that you can't accept reality and that you can't accept that other teams HAVE done so. You were given proof of the Jets doing the exact same thing.

I think that you are full of garbage that you had no intent of staying here this long. There haven't been excuses. We've been the ones providing the truth. You are the one who has been ignoring it.

4) There is nothing i have an issue accepting. I do know they broke a rule but severely cheated in the process. What they did messes with the integrity of the sport I love, cost other teams games, players their positions, etc. As far as their punishment, I like most others see it as a slap on the wrist and a sweep under the carpet as the punishment was not even on the same stratosphere as the crime. I do not think the pats are the only team to ever break a rule. Rules get broken all the time but spying, videotaping, and jamming signals goes far beyond simply breaking a rule. Do i think they are the first team to ever cheat? No, and as i said any team that has cheated deserves to face the punishment, even if it was the vikings. But i certainly see them as the only team to ever cheat to this extent and they certainly reaped the rewards of that.

You clearly have an issue accepting the truth. You clearly do not understand that breaking a rule does not equal cheating. And you clearly aren't intelligent enough to understand that nothing the Patriots did messed with the integrity of the game. Certainly not to the magnitude of what the Vikings did when they talked to Favre while he was still a member of the Packers. Certainly not to the magnitude of the Broncos or 49ers cheating of the salary cap.

There has not been ANY proof that the Patriots jammed anyone's signals. Also, since you don't understand about the coaching headsets, they are set up by the LEAGUE officials. They are given frequencies to use for each game. And those frequencies change on a regular basis. What people like yourself don't understand is that companies in the world regularly use walkie-talkies and frequencies that are not registered to them and sometimes it crosses with frequencies that ARE being used legally. I know this for a fact because when I worked in New Hampshire at a company, we had a frequency that we were using that got assigned to Southwest Airlines. And one of our employees ended up talking to a flight crew that was on approach to the Manchester, NH airport. The FCC was NOT happy with the company and we got a very HEAVY fine.

5) Hate is an awfully strong word that gets thrown around way too much. The minute you say something bad about a team they label you as a "hater" with zero foundation. That's just attempting to question my character and bias in order to make my accusations seem influenced therefore less accurate. But i'm certainly no hater. For many years I always respected the Patriots, no question. I never thought Brady was as good as Manning, but beyond that I felt they had the best team, they were winners, etc. But after seeing all the dirty things they had been doing for years, seeing the way they acted in the 2006 divisional game vs SD, pushing LT around in a circle, dancing. Seeing how Belichick refused to shake Manning's hand after the 18-point comeback in 06 when I remember seeing Manning shake his hand in defeat in 2003. Seeing some of their players arrested for drugs, Harrison for HGH, Wilfork getting off without suspensions for dirty hits...You see this list could go on and on and you'd just call it "hating" but its not. Its disappointing for me to see a team i once respected exposed like this. So of course the combination of such behavior is disgusting and disgraceful. But to answer your question, No, I don't hate the Patriots but I do very much dislike what they've done and how they carry themselves.

There are players on every team who get arrested for drugs, not just the Patriots. They are human beings. Is it right? Nope. Have Pats fans spoken out against them? Yep. And you'll notice that Andrews is gone after his 2nd beef with the law.

If you dislike the Patriots for what they've done, how can you like the Vikings when people in their organization have committed acts that were as bad or worse? Like the whole BOAT incident? Like the coach scalping his SB ticket?

Face it, you are a hypocrite. You have one rule for the Patriots and another rule for the rest of the league.

 

[NFL_Truth]

Do you regularly speak out about things that you are mis-informed about? Do you regularly not check your facts before getting into a conversation on a topic?



You've heard what a select few fans of other teams have voiced their opinions on. Based on your posting style, you've ignored the ones who are against your ludicrous claims.




You've already proven you don't know or understand the truth. You've proven that you can't accept reality and that you can't accept that other teams HAVE done so. You were given proof of the Jets doing the exact same thing.

I think that you are full of garbage that you had no intent of staying here this long. There haven't been excuses. We've been the ones providing the truth. You are the one who has been ignoring it.





You clearly have an issue accepting the truth. You clearly do not understand that breaking a rule does not equal cheating. And you clearly aren't intelligent enough to understand that nothing the Patriots did messed with the integrity of the game. Certainly not to the magnitude of what the Vikings did when they talked to Favre while he was still a member of the Packers. Certainly not to the magnitude of the Broncos or 49ers cheating of the salary cap.

There has not been ANY proof that the Patriots jammed anyone's signals. Also, since you don't understand about the coaching headsets, they are set up by the LEAGUE officials. They are given frequencies to use for each game. And those frequencies change on a regular basis. What people like yourself don't understand is that companies in the world regularly use walkie-talkies and frequencies that are not registered to them and sometimes it crosses with frequencies that ARE being used legally. I know this for a fact because when I worked in New Hampshire at a company, we had a frequency that we were using that got assigned to Southwest Airlines. And one of our employees ended up talking to a flight crew that was on approach to the Manchester, NH airport. The FCC was NOT happy with the company and we got a very HEAVY fine.




There are players on every team who get arrested for drugs, not just the Patriots. They are human beings. Is it right? Nope. Have Pats fans spoken out against them? Yep. And you'll notice that Andrews is gone after his 2nd beef with the law.

If you dislike the Patriots for what they've done, how can you like the Vikings when people in their organization have committed acts that were as bad or worse? Like the whole BOAT incident? Like the coach scalping his SB ticket?

Face it, you are a hypocrite. You have one rule for the Patriots and another rule for the rest of the league.

Now this is what I'm talking about. Although the fact is I certainly do know what im talking about, the excuses do not bring fourth a good explanation and the lack of evidence combined with frivilous accusations of other teams can never justify the biggest cheating scandal in league history.

Did the Jets do the same thing? Mangini worked under Belichick, no surprise there. Is it wrong, hell yes, just as wrong as the pats but it has not been done for as long if it has been being done. So all you've done is make the Jets look bad..bravo. But the Patriots are much worse.

 

[Jetssuck]

Now this is what I'm talking about. Although the fact is I certainly do know what im talking about, the excuses do not bring fourth a good explanation and the lack of evidence combined with frivilous accusations of other teams can never justify the biggest cheating scandal in league history.

Did the Jets do the same thing? Mangini worked under Belichick, no surprise there. Is it wrong, hell yes, just as wrong as the pats but it has not been done for as long if it has been being done. So all you've done is make the Jets look bad..bravo. But the Patriots are much worse.

The biggest cheating scandal? Says who, all the other fans like yourself, jealous that the Patriots are better than your team.

 

[NFL_Truth]

The biggest cheating scandal? Says who, all the other fans like yourself, jealous that the Patriots are better than your team.

Who says, everyone who sees that the Patriots cheated more then any team in NFL history with all of the proof to back it up. Its not a matter of jelousy, I'm a vikings fan and i'm no more jelous of NE then i'd be of other SB winning teams, it just so happens it was the Patriots alone who cheated to this extent.

 

[Jetssuck]

Who says, everyone who sees that the Patriots cheated more then any team in NFL history with all of the proof to back it up. Its not a matter of jelousy, I'm a vikings fan and i'm no more jelous of NE then i'd be of other SB winning teams, it just so happens it was the Patriots alone who cheated to this extent.

They didn't cheat. 2006 memo...Superbowls won 2001, 2003, and 2004.

You're probably not a Vikings fan either. Everything you type is a lie, including your periods and commas.

 

[NFL_Truth]

They didn't cheat. 2006 memo...Superbowls won 2001, 2003, and 2004.

You're probably not a Vikings fan either. Everything you type is a lie, including your periods and commas.

The memo has nothing to do with the rule that has always been. Just because a the league reminds teams of an existing rule in 2006 does not mean breaking the existing rule in prior years is acceptable.

 

[LeonPowe]

How does it feel that your team is so bad they can't even win a Super Bowl?

 

[Jetssuck]

The memo has nothing to do with the rule that has always been. Just because a the league reminds teams of an existing rule in 2006 does not mean breaking the existing rule in prior years is acceptable.

Than the league should have not issued a memo and just set up a sting against the Pats in 2006 instead of 2007. A memo would not be necessary if the league was not trying to say filming would not be tolerated any longer.

 

[DaBruinz]

Now this is what I'm talking about. Although the fact is I certainly do know what im talking about, the excuses do not bring fourth a good explanation and the lack of evidence combined with frivilous accusations of other teams can never justify the biggest cheating scandal in league history.

Did the Jets do the same thing? Mangini worked under Belichick, no surprise there. Is it wrong, hell yes, just as wrong as the pats but it has not been done for as long if it has been being done. So all you've done is make the Jets look bad..bravo. But the Patriots are much worse.

You DON'T no what you are talking about and you've clearly shown it. There were no excuses present on my part. There are not frivolous accusations about other teams doing it. Go to the FRAMe website. It has photos of the Jets doing it in the SAME GAME that they turned the Pats in. Also, Jimmy Johnson admitted to taping.

Also, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you are so ignorant to call it cheating. How was it cheating? How did the films affect the games that were being played at the time? I have news for you, they didn't. None of the tapings were used during the games in which the taping occured. THAT'S FACT.

The Patriots aren't "much worse". You just can't comprehend the difference between breaking a rule and actual cheating.

 

[DaBruinz]

Who says, everyone who sees that the Patriots cheated more then any team in NFL history with all of the proof to back it up. Its not a matter of jelousy, I'm a vikings fan and i'm no more jelous of NE then i'd be of other SB winning teams, it just so happens it was the Patriots alone who cheated to this extent.

What proof? The video from the Chargers game that showed them filming the Charger's cheerleader's asses? Seriously man. You really don't know what you are talking about.

The Patriots DID NOT CHEAT. All they did was break a rule. An action that, according to a majority of the coaches currently coaching and previous coaches, really had no bearing on the outcome of the game in which the taping occurred.

 

[LuthierJr]

Did the Jets do the same thing? Mangini worked under Belichick, no surprise there. Is it wrong, hell yes, just as wrong as the pats but it has not been done for as long if it has been being done. So all you've done is make the Jets look bad..bravo. But the Patriots are much worse.

So by your words it's not surprising that a coordinator who worked under a head coach who use filming as scouting used the same practices. If you want to take it that route then think about this for a second.

J. Johnson admitted to filming opposing teams signals.

J. Johnson said he learned how to do it from Marty Schotenheimer.

Marty S. worked in Kansas City at the time. This is back in the late 80's to mid 90's.

Marty Schottenheimer has been a coach of:

84-88 Browns
89-98 Chiefs
2001 Redskins
01-06 Chargers

No reason to believe that he has not been doing this with every team he has coached.

So this "cheating" has been happening for around 20-25 years just with Marty.

Coaches that worked under/with him at some point. I’m sure I’m missing others. I’ll list the teams these guys worked with and the years. We could actually break it down further from these guys and add the coaches who worked under these guys too. I’ve also included Mudd, Hatley, and Belichick.

Cam Cameron
94-96 Redskins
02-06 San Diego
2007 Miami
2008 Baltimore

Bill Cowher
85-88 Cleveland
89-91 Kansas City
92-06 Pittsburgh

Herm Edwards
90-95 Kansas City
96-00 Tampa Bay
01-05 NYJ
06-08 Kansas City

Tony Dungy
81-88 Pittsburgh
89-91 Kansas City
92-95 Minnesota
96-01 Tampa Bay
02-08 Indianapolis

Marvin Lewis
92-95 Pittsburgh
96-01 Baltimore
2002 Washington
03-08 Cincinnati

Ken Whisenhunt
97-98 Baltimore
1999 Cleveland
2000 NYJ
01-06 Pittsburgh
07-08 Arizona

Lovie Smith
96-00 Tampa Bay
01-03 St. Louis
04-08 Chicago

Rod Marinelli
96-05 Tampa Bay
06-08 Detriot

Mike Tomlin
01-05 Tampa Bay
2006 Minnesota
07-08 Pittsburgh

Gunther Cunninham
90-94 Oakland
95-00 Kansas City
01-03 Tennessee
04-08 Kansas City

Lindy Infante
dates sketchy but was a Coordinator with Browns
88-91 Green Bay
96-97 Indianapolis

Mike McCarthy
93-98 Kansas City
1999 Green Bay
00-04 New Orleans
2005 San Francisco
06-08 Green Bay

Wade Phillips
1985 New Orleans
86-88 Philadelphia
89-94 Denver
95-97 Buffalo
02-03 Atlanta
04-06 San Diego
07-08 Dallas

Jimmy Johnson
89-93 Dallas
96-99 Miami

Howard Mudd
74-76 Chargers
1977 San Francisco
78-82 Seattle
83-88 Cleveland
89-92 Kansas City
93-97 Seattle
98-08 Indianapolis

Mark Hatley
84-86 New Orleans
87-97 Kansas City
98-01 Chicago
01-04 Green Bay

Bill Belichick
1975 Baltimore (colts)
76-77 Detriot
1978 Denver
79-90 NYG
91-95 Cleveland
1996 New England
97-99 NYJ
00-08 New England

And of course his son, and brother:

Brian Schottenheimer
1997 St.Louis
1998 Kansas City
2001 Washington
02-05 San Diego
06-08 NYJ

Kurt Schottenheimer
87-88 Cleveland
89-01 Kansas City
2001 Washington
02-08 Detriot

I’ll start taking this one step further too. I’ll start breaking down some more of the prominet coaches under Marty and showing thier coaching tree. Such as:

Bill Cowher (these are just some of the future head coaches)

Dom Capers (Carolina Panthers and Houston Texans)
Chan Gailey (Dallas Cowboys)
Jim Haslett (New Orleans Saints)
Mike Mularkey (Buffalo Bills)
Ken Whisenhunt (Arizona Cardinals)
**** LeBeau (Cincinnati Bengals)
Marvin Lewis (Cincinnati Bengals)

Bill Belichick:

Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns
Eric Mangini, New York Jets

Also Belichick assistants now serve as coordinators, assistant head coaches, or executives for teams around the league (I’ve not included current NE staff):

Phil Savage, general manager for the Cleveland Browns
Rob Ryan, defensive coordinator for the Oakland Raiders
Jim Schwartz, defensive coordinator for the Tennessee Titans
Jeff Davidson, offensive coordinator of the Carolina Panthers

Tony Dungy: ( some of these guys were already listed under Marty S)

Herman Edwards
Lovie Smith
Rod Marinelli
Mike Tomlin
Mike Shula
Joe Berry
Leslie Frazier
Jim Caldwell

Of course Dungy was under Marty S as well as Bill Walsh so Dungy got his roots from the Steelers Dynasty of the 70’s (can you say steroids?) And he also served under Chuck Noll and Bud Carson.


If you look back from Bill Belichick you see Parcells who has under his coaching tree:


Bill Belichick, New England Patriots
Tom Coughlin, New York Giants
Sean Payton, New Orleans Saints
Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns
Eric Mangini, New York Jets
Tony Sparano, Miami Dolphins
Ray Handley, New York Giants
Al Groh, New York Jets
Chris Palmer, Cleveland

Scott Pioli, the current Vice President of Player Personnel for the New England Patriots is Parcells’ son-in-law.

If you look one up from Marty Schottenheimer you find Lou Saban. His coaching tree would fill up this whole friggin page.

So up to this point so far it is all fact. Now here is a little speculation.

Lets just say 25% of the coaches took a Que from their mentors and utilized taping, which by your account is not surprising, and J. Johnson proves that coaches do use methods others do. Even common sense will tell you that people copy techniques they learn from mentors/superiors, ect. That 25% (which is a conservative estimate in my opinion) would cover almost every team in he NFL at one point or another.

Even your Vikings had one or more of the coaches that was either a direct, or indirect descendant of the Schottenheimer coaching tree from 1992-2008.

Now do you really think this was an isolated incident that one or two coaches engaged in??

 

[NFL_Truth]

So by your words it's not surprising that a coordinator who worked under a head coach who use filming as scouting used the same practices. If you want to take it that route then think about this for a second.

J. Johnson admitted to filming opposing teams signals.

J. Johnson said he learned how to do it from Marty Schotenheimer.

Marty S. worked in Kansas City at the time. This is back in the late 80's to mid 90's.

Marty Schottenheimer has been a coach of:

84-88 Browns
89-98 Chiefs
2001 Redskins
01-06 Chargers

No reason to believe that he has not been doing this with every team he has coached.

So this "cheating" has been happening for around 20-25 years just with Marty.

Coaches that worked under/with him at some point. I’m sure I’m missing others. I’ll list the teams these guys worked with and the years. We could actually break it down further from these guys and add the coaches who worked under these guys too. I’ve also included Mudd, Hatley, and Belichick.

Cam Cameron
94-96 Redskins
02-06 San Diego
2007 Miami
2008 Baltimore

Bill Cowher
85-88 Cleveland
89-91 Kansas City
92-06 Pittsburgh

Herm Edwards
90-95 Kansas City
96-00 Tampa Bay
01-05 NYJ
06-08 Kansas City

Tony Dungy
81-88 Pittsburgh
89-91 Kansas City
92-95 Minnesota
96-01 Tampa Bay
02-08 Indianapolis

Marvin Lewis
92-95 Pittsburgh
96-01 Baltimore
2002 Washington
03-08 Cincinnati

Ken Whisenhunt
97-98 Baltimore
1999 Cleveland
2000 NYJ
01-06 Pittsburgh
07-08 Arizona

Lovie Smith
96-00 Tampa Bay
01-03 St. Louis
04-08 Chicago

Rod Marinelli
96-05 Tampa Bay
06-08 Detriot

Mike Tomlin
01-05 Tampa Bay
2006 Minnesota
07-08 Pittsburgh

Gunther Cunninham
90-94 Oakland
95-00 Kansas City
01-03 Tennessee
04-08 Kansas City

Lindy Infante
dates sketchy but was a Coordinator with Browns
88-91 Green Bay
96-97 Indianapolis

Mike McCarthy
93-98 Kansas City
1999 Green Bay
00-04 New Orleans
2005 San Francisco
06-08 Green Bay

Wade Phillips
1985 New Orleans
86-88 Philadelphia
89-94 Denver
95-97 Buffalo
02-03 Atlanta
04-06 San Diego
07-08 Dallas

Jimmy Johnson
89-93 Dallas
96-99 Miami

Howard Mudd
74-76 Chargers
1977 San Francisco
78-82 Seattle
83-88 Cleveland
89-92 Kansas City
93-97 Seattle
98-08 Indianapolis

Mark Hatley
84-86 New Orleans
87-97 Kansas City
98-01 Chicago
01-04 Green Bay

Bill Belichick
1975 Baltimore (colts)
76-77 Detriot
1978 Denver
79-90 NYG
91-95 Cleveland
1996 New England
97-99 NYJ
00-08 New England

And of course his son, and brother:

Brian Schottenheimer
1997 St.Louis
1998 Kansas City
2001 Washington
02-05 San Diego
06-08 NYJ

Kurt Schottenheimer
87-88 Cleveland
89-01 Kansas City
2001 Washington
02-08 Detriot

I’ll start taking this one step further too. I’ll start breaking down some more of the prominet coaches under Marty and showing thier coaching tree. Such as:

Bill Cowher (these are just some of the future head coaches)

Dom Capers (Carolina Panthers and Houston Texans)
Chan Gailey (Dallas Cowboys)
Jim Haslett (New Orleans Saints)
Mike Mularkey (Buffalo Bills)
Ken Whisenhunt (Arizona Cardinals)
**** LeBeau (Cincinnati Bengals)
Marvin Lewis (Cincinnati Bengals)

Bill Belichick:

Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns
Eric Mangini, New York Jets

Also Belichick assistants now serve as coordinators, assistant head coaches, or executives for teams around the league (I’ve not included current NE staff):

Phil Savage, general manager for the Cleveland Browns
Rob Ryan, defensive coordinator for the Oakland Raiders
Jim Schwartz, defensive coordinator for the Tennessee Titans
Jeff Davidson, offensive coordinator of the Carolina Panthers

Tony Dungy: ( some of these guys were already listed under Marty S)

Herman Edwards
Lovie Smith
Rod Marinelli
Mike Tomlin
Mike Shula
Joe Berry
Leslie Frazier
Jim Caldwell

Of course Dungy was under Marty S as well as Bill Walsh so Dungy got his roots from the Steelers Dynasty of the 70’s (can you say steroids?) And he also served under Chuck Noll and Bud Carson.


If you look back from Bill Belichick you see Parcells who has under his coaching tree:


Bill Belichick, New England Patriots
Tom Coughlin, New York Giants
Sean Payton, New Orleans Saints
Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns
Eric Mangini, New York Jets
Tony Sparano, Miami Dolphins
Ray Handley, New York Giants
Al Groh, New York Jets
Chris Palmer, Cleveland

Scott Pioli, the current Vice President of Player Personnel for the New England Patriots is Parcells’ son-in-law.

If you look one up from Marty Schottenheimer you find Lou Saban. His coaching tree would fill up this whole friggin page.

So up to this point so far it is all fact. Now here is a little speculation.

Lets just say 25% of the coaches took a Que from their mentors and utilized taping, which by your account is not surprising, and J. Johnson proves that coaches do use methods others do. Even common sense will tell you that people copy techniques they learn from mentors/superiors, ect. That 25% (which is a conservative estimate in my opinion) would cover almost every team in he NFL at one point or another.

Even your Vikings had one or more of the coaches that was either a direct, or indirect descendant of the Schottenheimer coaching tree from 1992-2008.

Now do you really think this was an isolated incident that one or two coaches engaged in??

All you did was branch a tree off of one coach who said he cheated. So you assume that the coach he learned from did it and taught it with zero proof, then later assume that it spread like a virus to countless coaches?

Problem here is zero proof. It's a theory with no foundation.

 

[DaBruinz]

All you did was branch a tree off of one coach who said he cheated. So you assume that the coach he learned from did it and taught it with zero proof, then later assume that it spread like a virus to countless coaches?

Problem here is zero proof. It's a theory with no foundation.

Zero proof? He has as much proof about them cheating as you do the Pats cheating.

Damn you are ignorant.

P.S. He used your own argument against you moron. Let me spell it out for you. Jimmie Johnson admitted to videotaping the way the Patriots did. He said he learned it from Schottenheimer. YOUR theory is that because Belichick cheated and we have pictures of the Jets cheating that it went from the HC (Belichick) to the DC (Mangini). The same logic you used would also apply to Schottenheimer and Johnson and, therefore, the entire tree. Its your own logic. Can't you see how STUPID it is.

 

[LuthierJr]

Most of what I posted was fact. Maybe it was a little to comprehensive for you. Let me give you the crib notes.

Marty S has been doing this (filming signals) over 20 years ago. Jimmy Johnson came out and said he learned it from him. Coaches quite often take methods from other coaches they worked under/with. The coaches who worked under or with marty would have had a greater chance to try this scouting technique. If they chose not to then they would, at very least, know it was taking place and changed signals from game to game or even within the game to prevent any in game advantage. This is/was not a isolated incedent with one or two evil coaches. It was a widespread practice which is clear from both admission from coaches who did it as well as common sense.

Does this make the breaking of the rule in 2007 okay? No of course not. It does, however, show that pre-2007 this was common practice and not quite as malicious as patriot haters make it out to be. It got blown out of porportion by sensationalism reporting by espn and others.

 

[NFL_Truth]

How does it feel that your team is so bad they can't even win a Super Bowl?

It's difficult but a fan must be loyal despite their teams record, not be a bandwagon jumper to a team that is a proven winner.

But in all fairness, without cheating, The Patriots have not won any Super Bowls either. They did become AFC champions twice without cheating which is impressive, but when it comes to without cheating. My team is tied with yours with zero championships. Difference is, my team didnt cheat.

 

[NFL_Truth]

Zero proof? He has as much proof about them cheating as you do the Pats cheating.QUOTE]

Patriots: admit to cheatin for 6 years, hand over some tapes, Walsh gives extra.

Fictional Cheating Tree: Zero evidence for everyone mentioned besides Mangini & Johnson.