National perspective on Cassel

[MoLewisrocks]

A second year played who has never played a meaningful NFL game is not the same as someone who has played a full season (assuming he stays healthy) with solid quality.

You don't generally get that player to be/remain your backup unless he was not scheduled to be an UFA...and even then on another team that player if unhappy with his financial lot in life might threaten a holdout unless he gets a better deal (like say Garcia did...leaving Philly for Tampa and then threatening a holdout this season because he wanted another raise comensurate with his overflowing self esteem).

When we let Damon Huard go it was not because we didn't like him as a viable backup, it was because he wanted $1.5M per in a long term deal. That was in 2003 when the cap was still double digits. Today the cap is substantially higher, but THAT player is routinely getting $3M plus incentives to sign with a team devoid a franchise QB or backing up a floundering youngster or injury prone pro bowler who will afford him some opportunity to start and perhaps even overtake him.

 

[swheeler23]

Cassel having Brady's 2001 numbers is not enough. Cassel has an offense that was one of the best ever last year. Brady in 2001 had Brown and little else.He is playing with one of the all time great offenses. Nationally that is how people will look at Cassel. 2001 Brady with 2008 offense. Pats are unbeaten. The comparison of Brady 2001 and Cassel 2008 is unfair to Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

Cassel having Brady's 2001 numbers is not enough. Cassel has an offense that was one of the best ever last year. Brady in 2001 had Brown and little else.He is playing with one of the all time great offenses. Nationally that is how people will look at Cassel. 2001 Brady with 2008 offense. Pats are unbeaten. The comparison of Brady 2001 and Cassel 2008 is unfair to Brady.

Even taking Brady out of the equation, this has not been the same offense as last season. Neal has been on PUP, Maroney was injured and is now on IR, Morris has been out, and there's no Kyle Brady to serve as the blocking tight end.

 

[emoney_33]

Cassel having Brady's 2001 numbers is not enough. Cassel has an offense that was one of the best ever last year. Brady in 2001 had Brown and little else.He is playing with one of the all time great offenses. Nationally that is how people will look at Cassel. 2001 Brady with 2008 offense. Pats are unbeaten. The comparison of Brady 2001 and Cassel 2008 is unfair to Brady.

Wow you are smoking some great stuff. 2001 Brady had a lot of trouble throwing the deep ball. The 2001 Brady would not have been able to take advantage of Moss the way the 2007 Brady could. Also Moss' production dropped off late last year when defenses started to make a concerted effort to stop him, which they have continued this year.

Still Pats unbeaten in 08 with the 01 Brady is beyond laughable. Your revisionist history of the 2001 Brady is unfair to both Brady and Cassel. Although that has nothing to do with this discussion. The national perspective on Cassel is going to have nothing to do with Brady.

 

[swheeler23]

Even taking Brady out of the equation, this has not been the same offense as last season. Neal has been on PUP, Maroney was injured and is now on IR, Morris has been out, and there's no Kyle Brady to serve as the blocking tight end.

Cassel supporting cast on offense is alot better then Bradys in 2001.

 

[swheeler23]

Wow you are smoking some great stuff. 2001 Brady had a lot of trouble throwing the deep ball. The 2001 Brady would not have been able to take advantage of Moss the way the 2007 Brady could. Also Moss' production dropped off late last year when defenses started to make a concerted effort to stop him, which they have continued this year.

Still Pats unbeaten in 08 with the 01 Brady is beyond laughable. Your revisionist history of the 2001 Brady is unfair to both Brady and Cassel. Although that has nothing to do with this discussion. The national perspective on Cassel is going to have nothing to do with Brady.

I live in San Diego and people think,(you are asking about National perspective) right or wrong that Cassel wins because of the offense around him and the coaching.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Wow you are smoking some great stuff. 2001 Brady had a lot of trouble throwing the deep ball. The 2001 Brady would not have been able to take advantage of Moss the way the 2007 Brady could. Also Moss' production dropped off late last year when defenses started to make a concerted effort to stop him, which they have continued this year.

Still Pats unbeaten in 08 with the 01 Brady is beyond laughable. Your revisionist history of the 2001 Brady is unfair to both Brady and Cassel. Although that has nothing to do with this discussion. The national perspective on Cassel is going to have nothing to do with Brady.

Bingo

10chas is a pain

 

[Deus Irae]

Cassel supporting cast on offense is alot better then Bradys in 2001.

Really? How so?

 

[emoney_33]

I live in San Diego and people think,(you are asking about National perspective) right or wrong that Cassel wins because of the offense around him and the coaching.

And they thought the same about Brady in 2001... Again, nothing to do with Brady. A simple hatred of the Pats/BB makes fans lie to themselves. The other 31 teams have some good scouts and talent evaluators who will like Cassel though.

 

[swheeler23]

Really? How so?

I gotta go to work. I will answer when I get back. Just a start the receivers. Troy Brown was the best that the patriots had. Brady up until last year name a top receiver for Brady? Branch? 1000 yards in a season? Losing Maroney this year was not a big loss. Morris and Faulk can fill in very well.Neal was a big loss and should make a big difference on the ol.

 

[Deus Irae]

I gotta go to work. I will answer when I get back. Just a start the receivers. Troy Brown was the best that the patriots had. Brady up until last year name a top receiver for Brady? Branch? 1000 yards in a season? Losing Maroney this year was not a big loss. Morris and Faulk can fill in very well.Neal was a big loss and should make a big difference on the ol.

Terry Glenn was on that 2001 team, although he only played 4 games. A 2001 receiving trio of Glenn, Brown and Patten is not taking all that much of a backseat to the 2008 trio of Moss, Welker and Gaffney.

Smith was a better running back than Morris currently is though, in the interest of my not really caring about this point, I'll happily accept that some may believe them to be at the same level. I'm not worried about people who think 2001 was a better or worse cast, but I don't see it as any kind of slam dunk decision.

It's like listening to the people talking about how much better Brady was at avoiding pressure, when he was sacked 41 times in 14 starts and Bledsoe had taken 45 sacks in 16 starts the year before. People get notions in their heads and facts just aren't going to penetrate. Was the 2001 cast as strong as the 2007 cast? No, I don't think so. Was it as strong as the current cast has been to date this season? I don't think there's any real doubt that it was.

 

[BradyManny]

Terry Glenn was on that 2001 team, although he only played 4 games. A 2001 receiving trio of Glenn, Brown and Patten is not taking all that much of a backseat to the 2008 trio of Moss, Welker and Gaffney.

Oh, come on, Deus - that's a stretch. First of all, as you say yourself, Glenn was hardly a part of that team at all. I think he only played in one game Brady did, but I could be wrong. Second, Moss is one of the best receivers ever to play the game. Troy Brown and Welker are about even. And at the time, Patten had never had more than 38 catches in a season (in fact, he came into that year with 60 catches in 4 seasons), so even Gaffney is an upgrade over him. So basically, being kind to the 01 squad, Welker & Gaffney = Brown & Patten, and then you are adding one of the greatest offensive weapons ever on top of that - it's not even in the same ballpark.

Again, this isn't a knock on Cassel, but it seems like in defense of Cassel, you are trying too hard to level the playing field between him and Brady and their respective beginning with the Patriots - there need not be a comparison, and no one expects Cassel to be Brady. Cassel has been good in his own right, but Brady was, from the beginning, a special player.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It isn't if you accept the underlying concept that Belioli aren't stupid - it's their job to know values and market and they would not tag him (which doesn't happen until late February 2009) unless they are CONFIDENT that he has a market and he will net them something of value beyond a comp pick in 2010.

In other words, there's no risk if everything is judged correctly. That's like having a "sure thing" in the stock market - as long as you judge correctly, you're bound to make money.

Why bother debating this if you're just going to continue to assume everything will work? Or potentially place the blame on Belichick/Pioli even though they have given absolutely no indication that this is their thinking? Either back it up with your own reasoned analysis that you stand behind or give up the discussion.

BTW assuming a future 3rd round comp pick is presumptious since even getting a pick is predicated on any FA we sign not negating it as well a secret formula that reportedly quantifies how the player performs relative to the contract he signs.

The "secret" formula can and is predicted extremely well every year. You are quite right that I didn't take into account a significant free agent signing by the Patriots; my bad.

 

[Miguel]

Teams are going to look at
1.) the team around him. Before Brady's injury the Pats were THE leading SB contender.
2.) the teams Cassel has played against. Let's not forget that the Pats started off the 2008 season with one of the easier schedule in the league as based on the 2007 opponents.
3.) The pass defenses Cassel has played against.
4.) What veteran Quarterbacks will be available in free agency or via trade??
5.) What quarterbacks will be available in the draft.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

teams are going to look at
1.) the team around him. Before brady's injury the pats were the leading sb contender.
2.) the teams cassel has played against. Let's not forget that the pats started off the 2008 season with one of the easier schedule in the league as based on the 2007 opponents.
3.) the pass defenses cassel has played against. kc is the best at #17.
4.) what veteran quarterbacks will be available in free agency or via trade?? kffl - 2009 nfl free agents
5.) what quarterbacks will be available in the draft. reported poor draft for qb.

1010101010

 

[MoLewisrocks]

1010101010

KFFL's FA QB list is outdated at best. Garrard signed a long term deal with the JAGS after last season and Orton signed a 2 year extension this spring through 2009 and the Chicago papers are already clammoring for him to get a franchise deal before the season is out.

Collins, Warner and Garcia at 36, 38 and 39 offer veteran stopgaps but Warner and Collins
may well stay put having already beaten out their starting competition in AZ and TN.

Teams will look at the team Cassel played with after Brady went down as well (not to mention they will be mindful that even Brady didn't win with the team around him last season...). They will also look at the weapons surrounding and opponents and defenses faced by the other FA... And they will look at the rest of the team they have assembled and factor in what different QB's skillsets might bring to their particular mix...

And in other news...

 

[patchick]

Cassel having Brady's 2001 numbers is not enough. Cassel has an offense that was one of the best ever last year. Brady in 2001 had Brown and little else.

I read a lot of posts like this, and I'm curious about the take-away message. Is it that Cassel isn't as good as Brady? OK, hard to argue with that...but it's hardly germane to whether Cassel will command serious interest as a starter in free agency.

This year's draft and FA quarterback crops both look desperately thin. Look around the league and you can easily spot several franchises with nothing like a starting-caliber QB. IF Cassel continues developing on current trajectory, he'll be a big, athletic 26-year-old with 4 years of top NFL training and 1 solid season of starting experience behind him. That makes him a prime candidate for the Matt Schaub Memorial Pot o' Gold.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Another thing to consider is that teams looking for a franchise QB have shown a preference for veterans recently - even with limited NFL careers. Brees went to NO after one good season and is now a superstar. Houston gave up a ton for Matt Schaub, and he had how many good games for the Falcons?

Now look at how many high draft pick QBs wash out. And with these kids, you normally have the first year where they're not even playing.

Where would you want to invest your franchise's money?

I think there will be a big market for Cassel as a backup, (because even as he is now, he's a ton better than most backups out there), and probably a chance for him to start somewhere (Jets?). He's got experience, youth, and the most important thing in the NFL - wins under his belt.

Let's face it - Cassel is gone after this season. And probably for a lot more money than the Pats would pay for a backup.

 

[JSn]

I think there will be a big market for Cassel as a backup, (because even as he is now, he's a ton better than most backups out there), and probably a chance for him to start somewhere (Jets?). He's got experience, youth, and the most important thing in the NFL - wins under his belt.

Let's face it - Cassel is gone after this season.

If Cassel takes back-up money, I hope he takes it to stay here for another year. I just can't see that happening unless we start a downward trend this weekend.

 

[mike_usagisan]

If Cassel takes back-up money, I hope he takes it to stay here for another year. I just can't see that happening unless we start a downward trend this weekend.

Yeah, but if it were you, wouldn't you rather be a high-priced back-up someplace you could compete for the starter's job? Both of which he won't get here behind Brady (unless he decides to go as Tanya Harding next Halloween).