Downside to franchising Cassel?

[BradyManny]

Bump. B/c even though the idea of it makes me a little uneasy, if Cassel keeps playing this way, tag and trade is a viable option.

 

[maryjane]

Ha ha, I like how I was ridiculed as a troll for this thread.

It seems prescient now.

Maybe not really, it's still unlikely they tag him, but he is playing better all the time.

 

[JAYHAWKS34]

If he can't be traded, he might make more money than Brady. Hard to deny him a starter's job or at least give him opportunity to get it if he's making that much.

What do you think? How much is the franchise tag for QBs?

Be hard to have that much locked up in QBs, but it might be worth it :rocker::eat2:

There is no way he should be making the average salary among the top paid QB’s even if it is for a year

 

[JSn]

Bump. B/c even though the idea of it makes me a little uneasy, if Cassel keeps playing this way, tag and trade is a viable option.

From what I'm seeing, if Brady is FOR ANY REASON a PUPPY next season, Cassel needs to be the guy until Tom comes back.

It would be horrible to let him walk and find out Tom isn't the same QB.

On the more likely flip, if we go 10-6 or 11-5 and tag him, I can see us nabbing a 1st or two 2nd's. Looks like the draft is going to be barren of franchise QB's and a lot of this year's starters are looking like chauffeurs driving their teams to high draft picks.

If we could be in a position to grab a pile of trench guys in high rounds, that would be amazing. I think with Wheatley, Hobbs, Wilhite, Sanders, Meriweather all healthy and getting better we aim to dhore up the secondary in free agency rather than via the draft. I cite Deltha: not everyone is loving him, but he came in a made a difference in the secondary immediately and sealed TWO wins this season. Rookies don't do that.

 

[BradyManny]

From what I'm seeing, if Brady is FOR ANY REASON a PUPPY next season, Cassel needs to be the guy until Tom comes back.

It would be horrible to let him walk and find out Tom isn't the same QB.

I don't think they have the luxury of doing that - from a financial standpoint. That's too much $$ to have invested in QBs, when you have a HOFer coming back presumably, at worst, week 6-10. By this time next season, I imagine O'Connell will have to be the man, and with a year more of time in the system, probably won't be an astronomical drop off over Cassel. Whatever the drop off is, it won't be enough to warrant retaining Cassel at the price of a franchise tag.

The truth is, Cassel himself wouldn't be worth the franchise tag (top 5 QB money), it'd just a means to retaining him so we can trade him. Let's say Cassel plays like this the rest of the season, he'll probably be viewed as a top 15 or so QB, a solid starter in this league, whose experience in the Pats system will be seen as an added value. Tag and trade, you can probably get a 2nd and a mid rounder for him I'm guessing.

 

[primetime]

There is no way he should be making the average salary among the top paid QB’s even if it is for a year

There's no reason Vince Young should be getting paid as he is, and so on and so forth. Teams will pay a premium for a solid quarterback. I don't know if Cassel is solid yet; he'd be making as much as Bulger, for instance, and Bulger is the better QB, but Cassel is younger and some may see further untapped potential.

 

[BradyManny]

There is no way he should be making the average salary among the top paid QB’s even if it is for a year

I agree - but its just a means to an end.

Here's his projected #s for the year:

Projected 299 compl 455 attempts 3113 yds 65.8% 16 tds 14 ints 84.6 rating

Those numbers definitely put him in at least the middle of the pack of QBs - with an expectation he could get better. There's definitely teams out there who would fork over some picks for that, no question. Put it this way: so far he's a GOOD quarterback, how many teams can comfortably make that statement?

 

[DefenseRules]

Tom Brady has two years left on his deal. His cap hit for 2009 is $14,626,720 and in 2010 it is $10,226,720.
Knowing how the Pats are very concious about how they manage their cap, how much more do you guys think that they would be willing to spend to keep Cassel? How much will his AGENT be asking for? With every good game that Cassel has, his price tag will go up. Have you seen this league? There are some BAD QBs out there. If he leads this team to the playoffs and/or they win the Super Bowl on top of that, MATT CASSEL WILL WANT TO GET PAID. Heck, he will probably be able to name his price, and he will have a MARKET, IMO.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

This is a tough choice for the Pats, for arguement's sake, let's assume that Cassel plays well and the Pats make the playoffs and win at least one playoff game.

That would make Cassel a "legitimate" starting QB in the NFL. So yes, the Pats could Franchise him. The Pats have nobody of importance coming up for free agency in 2009 so they do not need the Franchise tag for anyone else.

The salary would be 14 million, which is alot of cake to risk, but they could use it as trade bait and trade Cassel for a 2nd, or 3rd rounder (ala Tebucky Jones). Cassell (unless he turns into Tom Brady) is not goint ot get you a first round pick (and certainly nobody is going to sign him for the franchise amount, which would costs them 2 1st rd picks). BUT the 2009 crop of free agent QBs reads Jeff Garcia, Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller... even today, Cassel would be the top man in that market. The Georiga QB (Matthew Stafford) is quickly playing himself into the Lions #1 pick, but after that there isn't much on the college scene.

But on the other hand, the only AFC team in need of a starting QB next year will be the Chiefs, and in the NFC (assuming AZ either re-signs Warner (UFA) or goes with Lienart) only the Lions, Vikings, and Bears (oh my) need a starting QB. So the market for a franchised Cassel would be squarely in the NFC "Norris".

I highly doubt that the Pats will franchise Cassel (unless he is the SB MVP).

 

[Dago]

i think the best scenario is a beautiful season,resign with pats and a trade for some beautiful picks...

 

[JAYHAWKS34]

I agree - but its just a means to an end.

Here's his projected #s for the year:

Projected 299 compl 455 attempts 3113 yds 65.8% 16 tds 14 ints 84.6 rating

Those numbers definitely put him in at least the middle of the pack of QBs - with an expectation he could get better. There's definitely teams out there who would fork over some picks for that, no question. Put it this way: so far he's a GOOD quarterback, how many teams can comfortably make that statement?

True, and he will probably get that money considering he keeps up the good job that he is doing thus far and if this projection matches what his end performance

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Yeah franchising a QB would run in to some serious dough.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The salary would be 14 million, which is alot of cake to risk, but they could use it as trade bait and trade Cassel for a 2nd, or 3rd rounder (ala Tebucky Jones). Cassell (unless he turns into Tom Brady) is not goint ot get you a first round pick (and certainly nobody is going to sign him for the franchise amount, which would costs them 2 1st rd picks).

Just to be clear, that's not the way it works. The franchise amount is the amount that the team using the franchise tag has to pay in order to exercise the tag (which leaves the player not a FA, but only obligated for one year). A team could offer Cassel a vet-minimum contract, if they wanted to, and then the Pats would have seven days to match. If the Pats didn't match, then the team signing would owe the Pats two first-rounders.

But on the other hand, the only AFC team in need of a starting QB next year will be the Chiefs, and in the NFC (assuming AZ either re-signs Warner (UFA) or goes with Lienart) only the Lions, Vikings, and Bears (oh my) need a starting QB. So the market for a franchised Cassel would be squarely in the NFC "Norris".

The 4-12ers also say hi.

 

[Wretch]

What about the transition tag?

• A transition player has received a minimum offer of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

• A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation.

A club wanting to sign Cassel will have to negotiate with the Pats not to match. The Pats could get a draft pick or player and not tie up cap room

 

[DefenseRules]

What about the transition tag?

• A transition player has received a minimum offer of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

• A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation.

A club wanting to sign Cassel will have to negotiate with the Pats not to match. The Pats could get a draft pick or player and not tie up cap room

I forgot about that. Good suggestion.

 

[JoePats]

It's too early to think about this because Cassel has nothing to fall back on beyond what he does this year. If we were talking about a multi-year starter who slumped a bit at the end of a season, it's not as big of a deal. But Cassel has only what he does on the field this year and of course people are going to be very skeptical.

And barring a dramatic increase in level of play (and I'm very happy with Cassel's progress), there is not a team in the league giving Matt Cassel 10 or 12 or whatever the number is, million dollars per year. No chance. And it would be that AND a draft pick.

Most here agreed when the Pats didn't give Deion Branch a contract that would pay him like the 6th best WR in the league, and now we expect someone to pay Matt Cassel like the 5th or 6th best player in the league?

 

[mgteich]

QUESTION
A) If we franchise Cassel and he signs the tender, what happens if we cut him at various times (before the draft, before the season and during the season). If the team isn't obligated for the season, perhaps $875K per game isn't so bad, except that the incentive would be to bring Brady back too early.

SOME THOUGHTS ON FRANCHISING MATT CASSEL

1) We would not have $14M available as others competed for free agents.

2) If Cassel signs the tender for $14M for one year, would the team owe him anything if they were unable to make a trade? Note that Cassel doesn't need to cooperate with a trade. He can just sit tight knowing that he will make $14M or be cut and then negotiate with a team that will not need to give up a draft pick.

3) Unfortunately, the patriots may need to work directly with Cassel to secure his service for the patriots. Brady is by no means a guarantee to be near 100% to start the season. And playing next year with O'Connell as the #2 may not be the best approach. As several have indicated, perhaps the best approach is a 2 year extension at $6M or so per year (or the 3 years, with theird being a fake year). This would be able to be fit it to the patriots cap structure, as is more reasonable, than one year at $14M.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

What about the transition tag?

• A transition player has received a minimum offer of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

• A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation.

A club wanting to sign Cassel will have to negotiate with the Pats not to match. The Pats could get a draft pick or player and not tie up cap room

The transition tag only brings out the "poison pill". Someone will sign Cassel, and all they would have (in this case) to do is put something in the contract the says that he (Cassel) gets a 5 million dollar bonus if he plays more than 5 games a year in Massachusetts (or something similiar ot that) and in that case the Pats get no compensaiton whatsoever.

You would have thought that the league would have done something about this after the Vikings'Seahawks fueds with this, but they have not.

 

[maryjane]

QUESTION
A) If we franchise Cassel and he signs the tender, what happens if we cut him at various times (before the draft, before the season and during the season). If the team isn't obligated for the season, perhaps $875K per game isn't so bad, except that the incentive would be to bring Brady back too early.

SOME THOUGHTS ON FRANCHISING MATT CASSEL

1) We would not have $14M available as others competed for free agents.

2) If Cassel signs the tender for $14M for one year, would the team owe him anything if they were unable to make a trade? Note that Cassel doesn't need to cooperate with a trade. He can just sit tight knowing that he will make $14M or be cut and then negotiate with a team that will not need to give up a draft pick.

3) Unfortunately, the patriots may need to work directly with Cassel to secure his service for the patriots. Brady is by no means a guarantee to be near 100% to start the season. And playing next year with O'Connell as the #2 may not be the best approach. As several have indicated, perhaps the best approach is a 2 year extension at $6M or so per year (or the 3 years, with theird being a fake year). This would be able to be fit it to the patriots cap structure, as is more reasonable, than one year at $14M.

I believe that once he signs it, it's guaranteed, so that even if he's cut, he gets paid.....

Or I may be wrong, but I dno't think so.

So it's a huge risk to 'tag' him, in the hopes of trading him, b/c if you can't, you're stuck with a huge salary to him.

Best case figure out what he'd get in a 2 year deal and pay him that. I figure maybe 2M per year.

 

[Wretch]

The transition tag only brings out the "poison pill". Someone will sign Cassel, and all they would have (in this case) to do is put something in the contract the says that he (Cassel) gets a 5 million dollar bonus if he plays more than 5 games a year in Massachusetts (or something similiar ot that) and in that case the Pats get no compensaiton whatsoever.

You would have thought that the league would have done something about this after the Vikings'Seahawks fueds with this, but they have not.

I agree but it could create a situation similar to Welker's when the league stepped in and asked the teams to come to agreement to trade Welker and avoid the poison pill.