Did we know how bad Brady's knee was back in 2008?

[Rob0729]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

Now, this is a funny post, since what I'm pretty much saying is that we shouldn't be drawing conclusions from either the positive or the negative reports that have come out.

But you did draw a conclusion on Dr. Andrews' involvment in the case. I don't think what Dr. Andrews said should be taken as gold, but he is the only one who has been quoted on or off the record that both has intimate knowledge in the case and the medical background to know what he is talking about. He is the best information we have so far in terms of really what is going on with the situation.

 

[ScottieC]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

You are talking about him giving the lastest update on Brady that he had yesterday. That doesn't mean he wasn't videoconferencing in to the surgery room when they were doing the first clean up.

It is quite clear that Dr. Andrews had more contact with Brady's doctor than the latest update since Dr. Andrews advised to treat the infection agressively. You have to assume that he had more information than what could be told to him over the phone to give a proper consult. Not that I am a doctor, but most consults require the consulting doctor to review notes, MRIs, X-Rays, videos of surgical procedures, etc. You gotta assume that Dr. Andrews had access to a lot of these things.

The initial consult had to be done last week. For all we know, Bob Kraft flew his private jet to Alabama to fly Dr. Andrews to LA for the consult. Follow up progress reports are probably done over the phone, but even then they probably send him MRI images via e-mail or whatever.

All due respect, but I think you are drawing a huge conclusion based on one comment about a status report Andrews got a week or so after his initial consult.

Well, Andrews really spoke in general terms about his knee - and that is ALL he can do or he is violation of Federal Law (HIPPA). So there is no real violation of a HIPPA violation, however I think he's pushing the limit of HIPPA by talking about cleaning out the knee - But again, it's a pretty general comment about treating an infection.

Now, Tom Curran has an article out there today about the infection in the MCL not the ACL, which is better than it being in the ACL. However, that's the kinda info that will get a licensed pulled if the Doctor is the source, OR any Doctor that discuss the injury with the doctor that did the procedure was the source - Without the permission of Tom Brady and ONLY Tom Brady, no agent or family can authourize those discussions. In fact, his doc can't even discuss with another doc without permission from Tom, unless Tom is Incapacitated and unable to make the approval.

Tom Curran has a relationship with Brady and has reported before on some stuff that was shared between the two, so it's possible that this could have come from Brady - However unlikely.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

But you did draw a conclusion on Dr. Andrews' involvment in the case. I don't think what Dr. Andrews said should be taken as gold, but he is the only one who has been quoted on or off the record that both has intimate knowledge in the case and the medical background to know what he is talking about. He is the best information we have so far in terms of really what is going on with the situation.

1.)

Andrews seemingly only did a telephone consult

I'm not saying you're wrong to think what you do, but it's not as if that's some hard and fast conclusion, given the choice of "seemingly".

2.) Tom Brady's website issued a statement. That's the best information we have, unless we assume Brady's website is putting out false info and passing it around.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/169036-tom-brady-statement-surgery.html

 

[Clonamery]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

Now, Tom Curran has an article out there today about the infection in the MCL not the ACL, which is better than it being in the ACL. However, that's the kinda info that will get a licensed pulled if the Doctor is the source, OR any Doctor that discuss the injury with the doctor that did the procedure was the source - Without the permission of Tom Brady and ONLY Tom Brady, no agent or family can authourize those discussions. In fact, his doc can't even discuss with another doc without permission from Tom, unless Tom is Incapacitated and unable to make the approval.

Tom Curran has a relationship with Brady and has reported before on some stuff that was shared between the two, so it's possible that this could have come from Brady - However unlikely.

I dismissed Curran's article because his only sources were the BH and ESPN. It tried to make sense of it all but offered more conjecture and speculation.

 

[Theplayer]

Re: James Andrews comments on 'the knee'

why is Andrews making this public? LA doctor calls for advice and Andrews blabs to the LA times?..odd

 

[Sivy]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

Schefter does have info pipelines into the Pats org. Now he could just be preserving that access by parroting the company line, but I think he's speaking to the facts.

Schefter is the man and not wrong with his news to often. Thats why it sucked when I first heard "the news" from his mouth after the KC game.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Any infection in the knee area is not good - infections spread, though I suppose the point is that the repaired ACL is new and/or implanted tissue (Tom's own tissue will replace that over the next 6 months) and needs an infection free environment in which to heal... so it's good news that the ACL tissue isn't currently infected.

 

[Sivy]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

Why Tom hasn't gone to see this guy I will never understand.

I was gonna post the same joke, but figured people would just tell me he's an actor and not a doctor....Dr House would call this case boring and not take it. He knows what a simple infection is.

 

[primetime]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

Wow! Dennis' and Callahan's spin on this article is mind boggling. The spun it like Dr. ElAttrache was so at a loss, confused by the infection, and just incompetent that he had to go to Dr. Andrews to save his arse. Ok, I know those guys aren't the brightest bulbs in the tree, but they have never heard of a doctor's consult? If you are going to consult a doctor on an MCL infection, who is better than Dr. Andrews especially since both doctors have a good working relationship.

Isn't the whole thing that Andrews calls Brady's doctor for questions about knees? And Andrews is like the most well-known sports surgeon out there. We aren't talking about your fresh out of medical school intern taking slices out of Brady's knee, we're talking about world renowned physicians here.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's not like Tom has to scramble. He'll be fine for next year.

You're correct that a QB and RB have very different motions - and as we saw from Rivers, a QB can actually play WITHOUT an ACL (assuming they're doing little more than dropping back to pass)

But without proper rehab time Tom would still be playing on a weak knee, with weak knee muscles and perhaps a less than fully healed ACL - so while he could play I'd say that would leave him more prone to re injury.

 

[Jimke]

Re: James Andrews comments on 'the knee'

why is Andrews making this public? LA doctor calls for advice and Andrews blabs to the LA times?..odd

LA doctor looking to deflect criticism by soliciting remarks from

a renown orthopedic surgeon.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: James Andrews comments on 'the knee'

The problem is that TB picked a place that surprised a lot of people who know more about this than I do and now he's dealing with complications that, while they could have arisen anywhere else, certainly make it a lot easier to second guess his decision.

None of us can know or claim we know, but if you believe the old adage, "Where there's smoke, there's fire," then the fact that Patriots had to put down rumors that they were unhappy that TB chose to have his surgery where he had it suggests that there's at least a little static in the background. The fact that the LA doctors went and got air cover from the recognized expert on high priced athlete's knees suggests that there was a lot of criticism building out there among people who know something about this.

All of that is now water under the bridge or over the dam or whereever the heck water goes. Now, all we can do is wish Tommy well and hope that his knee allows him to get back fully to his old form in 2009 or 2010.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

and now a Cincinnati doctor chimes in

“Not Good.” at WEEI Blogs

"Kremchek specializes in the type of surgery that was performed on the New England Patriots star quarterback on Oct. 6 and is very familiar with various circumstances that result from the repair of a damaged ACL."

LOL and likely has a lot more infectious complication experience which is why he was likely never on Brady's radar...

The guy who did Brady's procedure wrote the book on them. Dr. Andrews who maintains a higher public profile than ElAttrache says he's the best, he consults the best of his peers, Manning's knee that Andrews handled got infected too, it is what it is and Tommy will be fine. That just doesn't generate web hits. does.

As I recall before Tedy's comeback from a stroke caused by a congential hole in his heart that it turns out upwards of a quarter of us don't know we also have, nobody beyond a rodeo rider and certainly no NFL player had EVER returned to a contact sport successfully. Many doctors opined that it was folly if not insanity to even contemplate his returning. Just because someone's educated or experienced doesn't mean they aren't simultaneously ignorant...

 

[Clonamery]

...true, I usually learn about my own ignorance through experience.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: James Andrews comments on 'the knee'

Just like this message board, Pats org opinion and various Doctors' opinions may not be completely unanimous. Let's do what prudent management does in such instances and wait to get more data.

 

[DefenseRules]

"Kremchek specializes in the type of surgery that was performed on the New England Patriots star quarterback on Oct. 6 and is very familiar with various circumstances that result from the repair of a damaged ACL."

LOL and likely has a lot more infectious complication experience which is why he was likely never on Brady's radar...

The guy who did Brady's procedure wrote the book on them. Dr. Andrews who maintains a higher public profile than ElAttrache says he's the best, he consults the best of his peers, Manning's knee that Andrews handled got infected too, it is what it is and Tommy will be fine. That just doesn't generate web hits. does.

As I recall before Tedy's comeback from a stroke caused by a congential hole in his heart that it turns out upwards of a quarter of us don't know we also have, nobody beyond a rodeo rider and certainly no NFL player had EVER returned to a contact sport successfully. Many doctors opined that it was folly if not insanity to even contemplate his returning. Just because someone's educated or experienced doesn't mean they aren't simultaneously ignorant...

Once again Mo speaks knowledge and not NONSENSE.
Good post.

 

[DGameguy]

Re: James Andrews comments on 'the knee'

I don't care what context his name is mentioned, but everytime I hear "Dr. James Andrews" and a player on a team I support I get a chill up my spine.

 

[Jackson 2]

Re: James Andrews comments on 'the knee'

I don't care what context his name is mentioned, but everytime I hear "Dr. James Andrews" and a player on a team I support I get a chill up my spine.

I get warm all over when I read about him making comments like today's.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: James Andrews comments on 'the knee'

Good to hear something good.

Even though at this point my fears wont be eased until Tom is back on the field.

 

[hwc]

re: Tom Brady getting Better! (merged)

how come ElAttrache was chosen? if he has to consult w/ andrews i would put andrews above...

maybe its just a doctor thing

ElAttrache wrote the textbook on sports injury surgery.

Surgical Techniques in Sports Medicine, Neal S. Elattrache, Book - Barnes & Noble

He's one of the top guys in the field.

Tiger Woods didn't go to James Andrews, either. He had his ACL reconstruction done by two other top guys in the field, Dr. Thomas D. Rosenberg and Dr. Vernon J. Cooley in Park City Utah. Rosenberg is a pioneer developer of some of the techniqus and surgical tools for knee reconstruction.

BTW, James Andrews is nearly 70 years old. While he's a very fine doctor, you generally look to the younger guys for the state of the art surgical chops at any given time. Reconstructive knee surgery has been evolving at a very rapid pace over the last five years or so.

This love-in for Andrews reminds me of the adoration for draft prospects for no reason beyond having heard the name.