Defensive Liabilities: Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, O'Neal

[maryjane]

True, but Hobbs is a good player... O'neal is a jag at best, and we all knew that before. Bru, Sey, Vrabel, Thomas and Harrison are past their prime. Thomas is worth keeping, vrabel should stay if he takes a paycut, but Sey and Harrison need to be axed.

I said much the same thing this morning and they AXED my thread!

Seymour and Vrabel s/b cut next year. SAnders too. Bruschi and Harrison should/will retire.

It should be a rebuilding year, but the homers around here don't want to hear it.

 

[SVN]

NY I will give you.....but who cares about the niners? They suck, and we should have pounded them. The D cannot defend a top flight offensive attack. The writing has been on the wall for years. Wilfork, Warren, Merriweather, Mayo, Gutton, Hobbs, Wright and Greene are the type of guys we need out there. Seymour, Bru, Vrabel and Harrison need to be cut or take paycuts. Yes, they are legends, but they are simply to old and slow to play at a high level anymore.

I gave bru some credit for being much faster this year, but he needs to be replaced asap, he is not the answer anymore.

i dont mean to say the D is good. they looked against KC and NY. We just forget it when we win ,thats all. Even against the jets we gave up more than 4YPC

 

[maverick4]

O'Neal saved the JETS game. Bruschi and Harrison were being touted as playmakers vs. SF and KC.

O'Neal ran fast to save a TD, so did Watson once in a high profile play, that doesn't mean their level of play is at a consistently high level. How does your logic compute, do you really let one play affect your entire analysis?

I guess I haven't been reading the same boards you have on Bruschi and Harrison. Through 5 games I haven't seen a level of play from either of them that is above mean.

You take the average mean of play from the league, and Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, and O'Neal have been below average.

I understand what you are saying in that some trolls or bandwagon fans can use this thread as justification for their sky-is-falling claims, but that is not my intent. We need to face the truth that old favorites can no longer play above-mean football at their position. It is as painful as seeing Troy Brown slowly fade, but it is happening to the D.

This defense has suffered from 3 years of using draft picks to give McDaniels toys to mask his play calling flaws. A situational run-stuffing ILB, a situational pass-rushing OLB, and development of Wheatley/Wilhite are essential if this team wants to play deep in the playoffs.

 

[QuinielaBox]

There appear to be weaknesses in certain areas of the defense that get exposed against good teams. Last night, all the CB's were hung out to dry against larger, faster San Diego WR. Due to poor matchups, and good San Diego offensive execution, the Patriots D was toast last night and needed Cassell to be Tom Brady to stay competitive.

Unfortunately, I see several more situations where the Patriots will have trouble this year. Somebody is going to have to light a match under the players asses or the team is in trouble.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

O'Neal ran fast to save a TD, so did Watson once in a high profile play, that doesn't mean their level of play is at a consistently high level. How does your logic compute, do you really let one play affect your entire analysis?

I guess I haven't been reading the same boards you have on Bruschi and Harrison. Through 5 games I haven't seen a level of play from either of them that is above mean.

You take the average mean of play from the league, and Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, and O'Neal have been below average.

I understand what you are saying in that some trolls or bandwagon fans can use this thread as justification for their sky-is-falling claims, but that is not my intent. We need to face the truth that old favorites can no longer play above-mean football at their position. It is as painful as seeing Troy Brown slowly fade, but it is happening to the D.

This defense has suffered from 3 years of using draft picks to give McDaniels toys to mask his play calling flaws. A situational run-stuffing ILB, a situational pass-rushing OLB, and development of Wheatley/Wilhite are essential if this team wants to play deep in the playoffs.

So where do I look up this average mean of play rankings...

That last paragraph is just nemism talk...We're not having trouble with the run except against wildcat offenses and BB could have added a situational run stuffing ILB if he needed to, he's surfing because we didn't need to. He drafted an ILB many say has the makings of an all pro in the first because we finally had a high pick and a target it could reach. He's drafted an OLB who is being developed and again if he needed a pure pass rusher he could have added one in FA. Jarvis can rush the passer, he went down early yesterday. He had a hybrid role planned for Tank Williams only he was lost in pre season. Bill doesn't feel that rushing corners is the way to develop them. Worked with Hobbs and Asante.

O'Neal made a big time play in that JETS game and it wasn't based on running fast. And he had position on the TD just up against a taller and more determined WR than we're used to seeing... He gave up that first big reception but that receiver was in front of him which seems to be Bill's criteria - he doesn't get to call his own coverages.

Bruschi and Harrison have been making plays all over the place in the three games we won. I don't check boards to tell me what I see... I'm not a Big Sey fan but he's here for now and he was playing better until last night when nobody played well and the scheme failed.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I'm a little lost on the O'neil issue. I rewatched the game today, and he did a good job in coverage in the first half. That long bomb on the first play, was simply a great catch. He had position, and had his arm right in there. 90% of the time, that ball is dropped. I do not blame O'neil on that one. I thought leaving them alone while the safeties played the run was the problem. Hobbs, and O'neil did ok. Not great, but better than people are making it sound.

 

[maverick4]

Did you miss the other huge plays he gave up? It wasn't just that one long bomb.

It's not just him though, we have some problems putting pressure on the QB which makes the DB's look worse.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Did you miss the other huge plays he gave up? It wasn't just that one long bomb.

It's not just him though, we have some problems putting pressure on the QB which makes the DB's look worse.

I realize he gave up other plays, but he didnt cover as badly as some here make it sound. It's like with Cassel. Everyone says he sucks because of 10 bad plays. They fail to mention he was good on the other ten. Everyone tends to focus on the negative, because the team lost. There was plenty of bad plays during the Jets game, but they won, so nobody was *****ing then. Same with Miami. There was some positives in that game. (not many)

The team right now is just not playing very consistant football. All we can hope for, is that they are learning from those mistakes, and will continue to improve.

 

[Steamer86]

I said much the same thing this morning and they AXED my thread!

Seymour and Vrabel s/b cut next year. SAnders too. Bruschi and Harrison should/will retire.

It should be a rebuilding year, but the homers around here don't want to hear it.[/QUOT

While Bruschi and Rodney will most likely retire next year, it would be stupid to start totally "rebuilding" until Brady is done....."rebuilding" sounds great, however, some teams rebuild for 10-20 years - it is easier said than done

 

[DaBruinz]

Man I love being right. To all those who called me an idiot for calling out lazy ass players like Sey, you can say sorry anytime you want!

Dude - STFU. You aren't right. Seymour isn't lazy. DAMN you are an idiot. Seymour was HURT with a variety of injuries.

Would you please do everyone a favor and just leave because you don't bring a damn thing to this board.

 

[DaBruinz]

Nope, nice try, I'm not in the crowd that is saying the sky is falling, and I defend the Pats more than most in terms of how they'll do this year.

I see a 10-6 season and would be pleased with that, I'm not a bandwagon fan and my expectations are realistic.

But Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, and O'Neal are major liabilities on the field, sorry you're too drunk on the kool-aid to see.

Seymour hasn't been a major liability. O'Neal, yes. Harrison, not so much. Bruschi, not so much.

As for saying that Mo is "too drunk on kool-aid to see", keep sounding like that ass Patslifer. You'll win a lot there. MO has always been one of the most realistic posters on this board.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ditto.........................

Seymour talks a good game, talks about finally being healthy and how dominant he'll be, I'm still waiting for that to happen.

He doesn't mention his bank account or the slice of pie that he has taken out of this team's Salary CAP, yet people will find a way to justify everything he does. I don't understand it.

Of course you agree with your fellow ignorant compatriot. Too bad you don't know what you are talking bout.

1) Seymour has been very healthy and has been doing his job.
2) Seymour's cap hit is a whopping 6.8 million. That's nothing compared to someone like TY LAW or even Willie McGinest.
3) Hindsight is great for the moron crowd. You get to sit there and make your BS claims and act like you are all high and mighty. You ain't. No one could have forseen the injuries that Seymour sustained after he signed his contract. And its not like they were injuries that you can actually train for to try and prevent. But facts like that are lost on the simplistic.

 

[DaBruinz]

Look at this garbage. Seymour is taking in more cake than Moss right now and is 2cond right behind Brady. FOR WHAT ?? And this is after he was paid 14mill as the highest paid player in this LEAGUE, YES THE LEAGUE in 2006. Something ain't right here man. Something is rotten in Denmark.

C'mon Sey, start earning your cake. You've been invisible for a long, long time now.

New-England-Patriots Salaries | New-England-Patriots Player Salaries | 2008 New-England-Patriots Salary

The least you could do is get your facts straight. What you are showing is his SALARY CAP number. NOT his salary.

Moss has a salary of 1.9 Million this year. Seymour's salary is 730K. Brady's salary is 5 million.

What is rotten is your half-assed thinking. You clearly don't understand the difference between the salary a player is paid, the money a player is paid and the salary cap.

Please do everyone a favor and stop because you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

 

[mac]

You cannot compare O'Neal and Starks. O'Neal had tight coverage on thise bombs. (Hobbs did too by the way.) If the current Pats QB had thrown those same passes to the Pats WR's, none of those passes would have been complete. None.

 

[mcsully]

Sunday nights loss was a bad team effort. The game wasn't even as close as the score and thats no joke.

Bruschi and Harrison are slowing down.. You cant' debate that.. Yes a week earlier they played well but week in and week out there bodies don't hold up. Trust me, it pains me to say this but at the end of the season, we must cut ties with both.
Lack of speed up the middle is the reason why teams are running up the gut on us. I'm wouldn't be surprised if AD moves back in the middle where he is a much better player.. He attacks the line and plays in space better than most but doesn't seem to have th knack to consistently pressure a qb.

We can't complain about Hobbs and O'Neill when there is no saftey help on plays and WR's have all day to run. WE had no Pressure on the QB all game. Rivers sat in the pocket and had the time to throw down the field. He barely got touched all game.. This lack of attack on the QB allowed him to pick apart our secondary..

Bottom line when Brady went down, it affected the entire team. It doesnt' take a genius to figure out the 30+ points a game the offense was putting up helped the defense.. When you have an offense that scores every series, it takes the other team out of its game plan. Now that we can only score 20 or so points a game, the games are close and the defense has to step up.. And for many reasons, they just can't..

Its a marathon not a sprint and there is a lot of football to play. I'll be watching the pats until the final game in week 17. Hopefully they make the playoffs but I know deep down they aren't going to the SB..

 

[p8ryts]

Each of these players is below the mean when it comes to average NFL players at their respective position. Seymour hasn't been the same since signing his huge contract, Bruschi and Harrison have heart but their bodies can't keep up anymore, and O'Neal may be 05 Duane Starks all over again.

The defense scares me way more than our offense right now.

As for offense, Cassel may hold the ball too long but he is improving as a game manager and doesn't make too many killer mistakes. McDaniels is unimaginative and predictable, but so far he gets bailed out by the skill of the players he coaches.

Unable to see the forest for the trees. give Rivers and the WR's some credit for really good play. I'm not buying what you are selling.

 

[Patslifer]

Dude - STFU. You aren't right. Seymour isn't lazy. DAMN you are an idiot. Seymour was HURT with a variety of injuries.

Would you please do everyone a favor and just leave because you don't bring a damn thing to this board.

You're the idiot, and you have been wrong about Maroney, Jackson, Seymour and the secondary. Seymour has talked about how healthy he is this year, yet he still stinks. He is about 60 percent of what he was in his prime. I love how you tell us Sey is doing his job. What's that, doing nothing. Seymour is part of the problem, not the solution.

No I won't leave, and you should just stop asking, chump.

 

[maverick4]

Don't bother arguing with DaBruinz, the guy is the most belligerent poster here, the moment anyone disagrees with him he flips his top and goes ad hominem because that is all he knows how to debate. He has done this for years.

 

[maverick4]

I realize he gave up other plays, but he didnt cover as badly as some here make it sound. It's like with Cassel. Everyone says he sucks because of 10 bad plays. They fail to mention he was good on the other ten. Everyone tends to focus on the negative, because the team lost. .

I know what you mean. O'Neal isn't as horrible as Starks was, he played close coverage on some of those long balls, but he still got burned several times. I am saying he is playing below average football, that's all. Even with Cassel, the guy isn't terrible, he actually doesn't make that many mistakes for a rookie QB, but he is still a below average QB who is very inexperienced but still growing.