What's up with Maroney?

[Leave No Doubt]

Let me know when you have watched a game this year because I've watched them and I've seen the calls for Maroney go, consistently, to the RIGHT side of the O-line. That is the WORST side for them to call him to.

I've also seen MANKINS, who should be the Pats best run blocking O-lineman (based on what I saw of him last year), get manhandled like he was a rookie with no playing experience. Seriously, Mankins, Koppen, Yates and Kaczur have been driven back on numerous occasions this year. That doesn't do the runner any good.

Exactly. I think he's hesitant at times,almost looking like he's trying to avoid contact but also if the OL took care of business overall he'd look a whole lot better out there.

 

[Seymour93]

He is but someone here I respect once explained that he has trouble turning and catching on screens, passes in the flat etc. and keeping momentum. I didn't see it myself but I haven't looked closely.

I've always thought that they are saving the Maroney screens/dump off passes for desperation time, like against the Ravens or in the SB. They want to have a Get out of Jail card, and that's it.

 

[WhiZa]

Let me know when you have watched a game this year because I've watched them and I've seen the calls for Maroney go, consistently, to the RIGHT side of the O-line. That is the WORST side for them to call him to.

stats to prove it. He hasn't done anything left side:
Laurence Maroney - New England Patriots - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

This also goes along with my point about his right shoulder not being able to take the hits when he runs to the left side. If teams see him in the backfield they may put a shift on.

 

[mgteich]

There is no reason to try to develop plays for Maroney, anymore than we should do so for Faulk or Morris. Josh will continue to develop a running game based on the opponent and what is working. And just BTW, if we added more swing passes and screens, I'd put in Faulk not Maroney.

Maroney is one of our four backs (three if Joredan is out). Josh will use him well.

I will not be disappointed if Morris and Faulk get more reps or yards than Maroney. Why should I care? This is a TEAM.

 

[bradydaman29]

He does not see holes at the line as well as any other back on the roster. Is Maroney another athelete with great phsycial skills and poor instincts? Right now he seems to be suffering from lack of confidence, and possibly injury (but then why is he in there?). He has contributed more than CJ did, but if he continues to struggle to keep up with his position (2.5 ypc yesterday), one has to wonder how long he will continue to be a member. I would guess that Morris gets the start SUnday night. I think Maroney's opportunities are dwindling, although if Jordan cannot play he gets a (hopefully) temporary reprieve. A stint on the inactive list would be the first sign that the coaches have reached a desperation point with Maroney.

I'm OK with Maroney starting, even though Morris is the better back right now. It reminds me of the Celtics starting Maxwell and then having McHale come in off the bench. I think it helps Morris to come in and give a change of pace.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There is no reason to try to develop plays for Maroney, anymore than we should do so for Faulk or Morris. Josh will continue to develop a running game based on the opponent and what is working. And just BTW, if we added more swing passes and screens, I'd put in Faulk not Maroney.

Maroney is one of our four backs (three if Joredan is out). Josh will use him well.

I will not be disappointed if Morris and Faulk get more reps or yards than Maroney. Why should I care? This is a TEAM.

Precisely my view. I'm not against selecting a RB for his special talents to run a particular play, which is what J McD does. Who gets what yards or how many TDs is irrelevant to me as a fan of the team. Were I the player's agent I might feel differently.

 

[Kontradiction]

I see you've decide to throw away logic and reason and just join the Chicken Little crowd while disregarding the reality. That's too bad.

Yes because my track record over the past couple of weeks clearly states that I'm joining the Chicken Little crowd. I'd rather you actually debate my point then label with with the red "A" on my chest. So go ahead and tell me how the O-Line sucks. I know they do. But how is it that Morris is able to see really good production behind the same O-Line when Maroney is not? Or would you rather just say Chicken Little 65 times throughout the thread?

 

[Kontradiction]

stats to prove it. He hasn't done anything left side:
Laurence Maroney - New England Patriots - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

This also goes along with my point about his right shoulder not being able to take the hits when he runs to the left side. If teams see him in the backfield they may put a shift on.

I hope you guys are right.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm OK with Maroney starting, even though Morris is the better back right now. It reminds me of the Celtics starting Maxwell and then having McHale come in off the bench. I think it helps Morris to come in and give a change of pace.

AGAIN...... Morris and Maroney are each averaging identical YPC right now, a paltry 3.3 YPC. The problem is not with the running backs, it's with the running game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes because my track record over the past couple of weeks clearly states that I'm joining the Chicken Little crowd. I'd rather you actually debate my point then label with with the red "A" on my chest. So go ahead and tell me how the O-Line sucks. I know they do. But how is it that Morris is able to see really good production behind the same O-Line when Maroney is not? Or would you rather just say Chicken Little 65 times throughout the thread?

You made a post with a sarcastic remark/assertion. I responded with two examples that disproved your assertion. Instead of admitting your error, you belittled the evidence. You were wrong, and you did precisely what I said you did. You're usually a much better poster than that.

As for the Morris production, how many times do I have to point this out?

1.) Morris is averaging 3.3 ypc this season.

2.) Maroney is averaging 3.3. ypc this season.

3.) Jordan has the best YPC of the main rbs this season, but not one of the three has averaged more than 4 YPC in more than one game all year.

My post in this thread (#71) has more details on the breakdown.

 

[Kontradiction]

You made a post with a sarcastic remark/assertion. I responded with two examples that disproved your assertion. Instead of admitting your error, you belittled the evidence. You were wrong, and you did precisely what I said you did. You're usually a much better poster than that.

As for the Morris production, how many times do I have to point this out?

1.) Morris is averaging 3.3 ypc this season.

2.) Maroney is averaging 3.3. ypc this season.

3.) Jordan has the best YPC of the main rbs this season, but not one of the three has averaged more than 4 YPC in more than one game all year.

My post in this thread (#71) has more details on the breakdown.

Admittedly, my problems with Maroney stem from how excited I was about the draft pick and my anxiety over the fact that I'm tired of waiting for him to turn in a 1,000 yard, 10+ touchdown season for us. That, and I simply didn't know that he's ran the ball entirely to the right side of the offensive line this season until I went back to read your post and saw DaBruinz'.

 

[Deus Irae]

Admittedly, my problems with Maroney stem from how excited I was about the draft pick and my anxiety over the fact that I'm tired of waiting for him to turn in a 1,000 yard, 10+ touchdown season for us. That, and I simply didn't know that he's ran the ball entirely to the right side of the offensive line this season until I went back to read your post and saw DaBruinz'.

Well, my apologies if I seemed to be taking a hard slam at you rather than something milder. Last night's game thread and the accompanying "player sucks" about Cassel, Seymour and company, combined with a bad cold, have me more cranky than I should be....

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You made a post with a sarcastic remark/assertion. I responded with two examples that disproved your assertion. Instead of admitting your error, you belittled the evidence. You were wrong, and you did precisely what I said you did. You're usually a much better poster than that.

As for the Morris production, how many times do I have to point this out?

1.) Morris is averaging 3.3 ypc this season.

2.) Maroney is averaging 3.3. ypc this season.

3.) Jordan has the best YPC of the main rbs this season, but not one of the three has averaged more than 4 YPC in more than one game all year.

My post in this thread (#71) has more details on the breakdown.

Good data.
I think that part of the issue is that some of us have had higher expectations for Maroney than for Morris and believe that we see him piss away opportunities to increase his YPC.

 

[SoCal Pmen]

Just listened to BB on the Big Show. He pretty much took the high road when asked about Maroney about that play saying that maybe he just didn't see the first down. Nice of him to not call him out in public. Instead he suggested he test the pine for a while.

 

[Water Boy]

Does anybody here think he will be back with the Pats when his contract expires?

I don't think the Pats will even look to sign him again. Don't think that BB doesn't see the same thing on hitting the hole with him. I thought it was something he would learn, but I have given up on that.

Whether or not Maroney is resigned will be the true arbiter of how Maroney has performed in the Patriots system. I highly doubt that the Pats will resign him. If that is the contingent of folks on this board who have been making excuses for Maroney will finally have to admit that he has not lived up to expectations.

 

[Deus Irae]

Good data.
I think that part of the issue is that some of us have had higher expectations for Maroney than for Morris and believe that we see him piss away opportunities to increase his YPC.

I think that you frame it in an excellent way: Maroney is the best running back on the team (Faulk is a 3rd down back for discussion purposes), but why is there not a wider gulf of separation between him and the other options?

(Disclaimer: First, let me state that I was really pissed off that the team didn't find a way to get Steven Jackson in the draft, so I was not a fan of the Maroney pick. I figured that if Jackson wasn't worth getting in round 1, why the hell should Maroney make the cut? I wanted Ngata, who was already gone, or Kiwanuka. I still don't like that they passed over Jackson but made sure to take Maroney, but I try not to let that affect what my opinion of LoMo.)

Some theories I've looked at:

1.) The zone blocking isn't opening up the sort of cutback holes that a Maroney would use, but any fool can run behind Mankins and Light and get 3+ yards per carry. This puts Maroney at a distinct disadvantage, because the offensive line's frequent failures to open holes prevents LoMo from cutting back, and that makes it seem as if he's dancing when he's actually waiting for a hole to open that's never going to show. Since Morris and Jordan (And Dillon, etc...) don't run with this style, they are not impacted as negatively as LoMo is.

2.) LoMo is a bit of a Nancy and doesn't like repetitive contact.

3.) The team uses LoMo pretty much the same way every time, so teams can focus on that and shut it down.

4.) LoMo sucks.

5.) LoMo can't play hurt (I'm talking hurt, not injured).

6.) LoMo tries playing through injuries when he shouldn't.

7.) McDaniels can't, or won't, run the running game in a manner that suits Maroney's strengths. For example, why the hell isn't Maroney getting some fakes, slipping through the line and making catches just past the LOS? That would make the defenders hesitate and would make life easier for LoMo. Also, why no sweeps, or quick swing passses? Why no direct snaps? Why no Wildcat formations, etc.?


Personally, I tend to lean more towards #1,#3, and #7, but I'm open to pretty much any of the above (except #4, which I think last year showed to be untrue) if further information comes forth to change my current position that it's mostly the combination of poor blocking and pigeonholed playcalling.

 

[CheerforTom]

I think that you frame it in an excellent way: Maroney is the best running back on the team (Faulk is a 3rd down back for discussion purposes), but why is there not a wider gulf of separation between him and the other options?

(Disclaimer: First, let me state that I was really pissed off that the team didn't find a way to get Steven Jackson in the draft, so I was not a fan of the Maroney pick. I figured that if Jackson wasn't worth getting in round 1, why the hell should Maroney make the cut? I wanted Ngata, who was already gone, or Kiwanuka. I still don't like that they passed over Jackson but made sure to take Maroney, but I try not to let that affect what my opinion of LoMo.)

Some theories I've looked at:

1.) The zone blocking isn't opening up the sort of cutback holes that a Maroney would use, but any fool can run behind Mankins and Light and get 3+ yards per carry. This puts Maroney at a distinct disadvantage, because the offensive line's frequent failures to open holes prevents LoMo from cutting back, and that makes it seem as if he's dancing when he's actually waiting for a hole to open that's never going to show. Since Morris and Jordan (And Dillon, etc...) don't run with this style, they are not impacted as negatively as LoMo is.

2.) LoMo is a bit of a Nancy and doesn't like repetitive contact.

3.) The team uses LoMo pretty much the same way every time, so teams can focus on that and shut it down.

4.) LoMo sucks.

5.) LoMo can't play hurt (I'm talking hurt, not injured).

6.) LoMo tries playing through injuries when he shouldn't.

7.) McDaniels can't, or won't, run the running game in a manner that suits Maroney's strengths. For example, why the hell isn't Maroney getting some fakes, slipping through the line and making catches just past the LOS? That would make the defenders hesitate and would make life easier for LoMo. Also, why no sweeps, or quick swing passses? Why no direct snaps? Why no Wildcat formations, etc.?


Personally, I tend to lean more towards #1,#3, and #7, but I'm open to pretty much any of the above (except #4, which I think last year showed to be untrue) if further information comes forth to change my current position that it's mostly the combination of poor blocking and pigeonholed playcalling.

Fantastic post. I think it's clear that there is a problem with Maroney, regardless of whose fault it is. Even if LoMo is responsible for a lot of the suckitude I still think 7 is very true. Even if they don't want to do anything fancy, why don't they run him off tackle more rather than rely on him finding holes that aren't there?

It's also hard to disagree with the idea that Morris and Jordan are looking better than him because all they do is run forward and push.

 

[stcjones]

He has been nursing a shoulder injury and based on that play where he went out of bounds, I'd guess that he's hesitant to lower that shoulder and expose it to the NFL pounding. Hopefully this isn't a lingering issue for him all year, but he did seem hesitant today seemingly because of that shoulder.

He always seems to be nursing something.....very injury prone young man......If he is playing hurt and can't "lower his shoulder"......he shouldn't be in there....don't you think?

 

[stcjones]

His runing out of bounds reminded me of the infamous Ben Dreith Oakland game where Sam Cunningham ran outa bounds a yard shy to avoid a hit and we turned the ball over on downs as a result.

Something IS apparently off with Maroney this season. As he reaches the LOS, he often slows down to make a move. Doing this consistently is deadly as he loses momentum. He needs to hit the hole as designed at full throttle. I don't believe he's 'injured' in a meaningful football sense.

Contrast his style hiting the line vs Jordan, Morris, etc.

"As he reaches the LOS, he often slows down to make a move."

PWP....no offense....but this is something that Maroney has been doing HIS ENTIRE CAREER here in NE.......He almost always juke steps at the LOS.....and is slow to hit the hole........I don't think the Pats can "coach" that out of him.....it is his style....and he could get away with it in college where the holes were miles wide....not here in nfl

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Maroney is the best running back on the team (Faulk is a 3rd down back for discussion purposes), but why is there not a wider gulf of separation between him and the other options?

Some theories I've looked at:

1.) The zone blocking isn't opening up the sort of cutback holes that a Maroney would use, but any fool can run behind Mankins and Light and get 3+ yards per carry. This puts Maroney at a distinct disadvantage, because the offensive line's frequent failures to open holes prevents LoMo from cutting back, and that makes it seem as if he's dancing when he's actually waiting for a hole to open that's never going to show. Since Morris and Jordan (And Dillon, etc...) don't run with this style, they are not impacted as negatively as LoMo is.

2.) LoMo is a bit of a Nancy and doesn't like repetitive contact.

3.) The team uses LoMo pretty much the same way every time, so teams can focus on that and shut it down.

4.) LoMo sucks.

5.) LoMo can't play hurt (I'm talking hurt, not injured).

6.) LoMo tries playing through injuries when he shouldn't.

7.) McDaniels can't, or won't, run the running game in a manner that suits Maroney's strengths. For example, why the hell isn't Maroney getting some fakes, slipping through the line and making catches just past the LOS? That would make the defenders hesitate and would make life easier for LoMo. Also, why no sweeps, or quick swing passses? Why no direct snaps? Why no Wildcat formations, etc.?

Personally, I tend to lean more towards #1,#3, and #7, but I'm open to pretty much any of the above (except #4, which I think last year showed to be untrue) if further information comes forth to change my current position that it's mostly the combination of poor blocking and pigeonholed playcalling.

Good summary. I'm partial to 1 and 7. I wish I could find the long ago analysis/speculation that someone thoughtful posted that cited possible reasons why Maroney had probems catching passes, therefore the coaches don't use him that way. I really think that Josh McD needs to find a way to get the kid the ball in space. He's (J McD) geting paid a megabuck or more. Be creative.