CB Positional Review

[cstjohn17]

I know it is early but I am bored, here is the first positional unit review. They will be posted in random order of need, expect a new unit overview every week or so.

Here is the CB breakdown, Areas of needs | 199Overall.com

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CB Position overview - early look October 2008

Starters
CB Deltha O'Neal - free agent after season
CB Hobbs - signed through 2009

Backups
Lewis Sanders - free agent after the season
Wheatley - signed through 2011
Wilhite - signed through 2011
Richardson (Practice Squad) - exclusive rights free agent

Grade C+
Hobbs is a slightly above average NFL corner followed by average to below average veterans working on one year deals. Behind the starters are two high drafts picks from 2008 (Wheatley, Wilhite), they are the future but more help is needed.

Future outlook
Hobbs should remain a solid option in 2009, but he is a free agent after 09. Wheatley and Wilhite should be the foundation of a solid base, the jury is out on whether either player is NFL starting caliber. Look for the Patriots to add a CB in the draft but maybe not on day 1, plus the usual vets on one year deals. History shows the Patriots do not put a premium on the position.

Potential Free agents
Chris Gamble - Carolina - 6’1 - 200 - Solid player coming out of Ohio State also contributes as punt returner. He is young (26) and athletic.. Good chance he hit’s a big payday, but a lineup of Hobbs, Gamble, Wheatley, Wlhite and JAG du jour looks pretty good.
Side note - he was born in Boston, maybe it could be a good old ‘boy comes home story’, sigh..
Chris Gamble

Dunta Robinson - 5’10 - 174 - Houston - Smallish (just the way the Pats like them), kind of an under achiever but he has also played on some real poor defenses.
Dunta Robinson

Domonique Foxworth - Atlanta - Not much of a player but could be a stop gap.
Domonique Foxworth

Jabari Greer - Buffalo - 5’11 - 180 - Shaky as a corner but should come cheap.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2968

Nnamdi Asomugha - Oakland - 6’2 - 210 - Will want Asante money…

Draft impact
Unit has ok depth going into 2009, but lacks a true impact player. Patriots should draft a CB but there are more obvious needs that will likely be addressed firs.

College Players to watch
Bruce Johnson, Miami - 5’10-180 - smaller, quicker player, rounds 3 -4

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Good analysis, I like it. Maybe a little harsh on Hobbs, who may be a victim to BB's soft zone defense rather than his abilities.

In the draft I see a lot of people pining for Jenkins of OSU, but let's remember BB's preference in CBs.

After we get past the generics, high character, intelligent, dedicated to football, etc.

1.) Ball skills!
2.) Quick Twitch, super change of direction skills.
3.) Willingness to tackle

Based on that, it is hard to see Jenkins fitting into BB's defense. That is why my early favorite is Burnett of Central Florida. If he runs a decent 40 and cone drill, he could be an ideal fit for our defense; maybe not as a 1st rounder, probabbly a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

Ther are however a whole group of CB's that could fall in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th, that would also appeal to BB, but I think we need to let the season play out to see how many actually hold up before listing them.

We did the Miami-UNC game last week and a couple of those heralded Miami ypung secondary players got toasted a bit. I would not be surprised to see a couple of them on the bench next game.

 

[cstjohn17]

Good analysis, I like it. Maybe a little harsh on Hobbs, who may be a victim to BB's soft zone defense rather than his abilities.

Thank you I appreciate your insights. I thought I was fair with Hobbs, I described him as an above average NFL starter.

One more item to add to your list of CB requirements, small. He likes them small and quick.

I would be pretty surprised if the Pats used a 1st rounder on a CB, they have a lot of work in the trenches.

 

[dryheat44]

Thank you I appreciate your insights. I thought I was fair with Hobbs, I described him as an above average NFL starter.

One more item to add to your list of CB requirements, small. He likes them small and quick.

I would be pretty surprised if the Pats used a 1st rounder on a CB, they have a lot of work in the trenches.

Don't forget Hobbs is three games into his third season. IMO, he's ahead of where Samuel and even Law were at this stage in their careers.

Regardless, I like this, and look forward to the next one.

 

[cstjohn17]

Don't forget Hobbs is three games into his third season. IMO, he's ahead of where Samuel and even Law were at this stage in their careers.

Regardless, I like this, and look forward to the next one.

That is a good way to think about it, I never really thought of it that way. At the end of Samuel's 3rd season the Pats could have signed him cheap (15M for 4-5 years). They decided to gamble and let him play his final year, he got 10+ picks and then the franchise tag. Despite losing a top CB financially it was still a good move for the Pats.

Another plus for Hobbs is his ability as a returner. I bet $15M for 5 years would look pretty good to Hobbs right now.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Thank you I appreciate your insights. I thought I was fair with Hobbs, I described him as an above average NFL starter.

One more item to add to your list of CB requirements, small. He likes them small and quick.

I would be pretty surprised if the Pats used a 1st rounder on a CB, they have a lot of work in the trenches.

Don't forget, though, that he wanted to trade up to get the 6'1" Zackary Bowman.

 

[cstjohn17]

Don't forget, though, that he wanted to trade up to get the 6'1" Zackary Bowman.

I am not sure how much the wanted Bowman, he was cut by the Bears and they could have signed him to the 53 man roster or their practice squad.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Thank you I appreciate your insights. I thought I was fair with Hobbs, I described him as an above average NFL starter.

One more item to add to your list of CB requirements, small. He likes them small and quick.

I would be pretty surprised if the Pats used a 1st rounder on a CB, they have a lot of work in the trenches.

I am sure that iff BB ever found a tall CB with superior change of direction skills, BB would not let excessive height stand in the way of drafting the kid.

Has anybody noticed that Dwigt Lowery, who in college had the best ball skills as a CB that I had seen in the past dozen years, but only ran a 4.6, is starting for the Jets? Wow!

I think this year's draft will have a couple of super risers that come out of left field, ala Cromartie last year, at the CB position. But just as I was happy to see someone else take Cromartie, I am sure BB will pass on those types again this year.
BB is trending toward Big 12 CB's lately and I do not see any special ones yet this year.

 

[Metaphors]

College Players to watch
Bruce Johnson, Miami - 5’10-180 - smaller, quicker player, rounds 3 -4

Captain Munnerlyn, South Carolina - 5’8-185 - smaller, quicker player, rounds 2 -3

Also can return punts.

 

[Patriot80]

Well, since we didn't pay Asante the big money and really never pay the big bucks to CBs, I have a hard time believing we would make a run at Asomugha in free agency, even though I think he is WELL worth the money. He doesn't get much press playing out in Oakland, but I'm telling you this guy is probably the best all around CB in the league, BY FAR. And yes even better than Bailey IMO. I see teams go after Bailey many times and he gets beat fairly often, however teams will simply avoid challenging Asomugha at all costs.

Chances are we'll address the CB position somewhere around the 3rd-5th rounds in the draft.

 

[dryheat44]

Well, since we didn't pay Asante the big money and really never pay the big bucks to CBs, I have a hard time believing we would make a run at Asomugha in free agency, even though I think he is WELL worth the money. He doesn't get much press playing out in Oakland, but I'm telling you this guy is probably the best all around CB in the league, BY FAR. And yes even better than Bailey IMO. I see teams go after Bailey many times and he gets beat fairly often, however teams will simply avoid challenging Asomugha at all costs.

Chances are we'll address the CB position somewhere around the 3rd-5th rounds in the draft.

I agree that he's become the best CB in the league. You never know how these things work out. Belichick may think he's miles better than Samuel, and still improving (which is my read). Or maybe BB, Pees, and Capers will decide to change up the defense and go to more man-2-man which would make him very desirable. We may lose some big ticket players to free agency and have more money to spend than usual. Or maybe Asomugha decides he wants to play for a contender that is coached by a defensive genius and comes cheaply.

On the plus side, I saw a lengthy interview on the NFLN with Asomugha after Kiffin's firing, and he came across as a very humble, intelligent, well-spoken young man.

 

[everlong]

Don't forget Hobbs is three games into his third season. IMO, he's ahead of where Samuel and even Law were at this stage in their careers.

3 games into his 4th year. I'd say in spite of popular opinion, which is that Hobbs sucks, he is on track to where Samuel was at that point. I think he gambles a lot less and tackles better. Then there's his special teams play which would put him a notch above.

 

[everlong]

On the plus side, I saw a lengthy interview on the NFLN with Asomugha after Kiffin's firing, and he came across as a very humble, intelligent, well-spoken young man.

I saw that and agree. I'd love to have him and play more press coverage.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

On the plus side, I saw a lengthy interview on the NFLN with Asomugha after Kiffin's firing, and he came across as a very humble, intelligent, well-spoken young man.

Really he would be perfect for our schemes in that he takes away opportunities on one side of the field, much like Ty Law did. That leaves more defenders for the middle and other side of the field and gives the LBers more opportunities to tighten the windows on the underneath stuff.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Really he would be perfect for our schemes in that he takes away opportunities on one side of the field, much like Ty Law did. That leaves more defenders for the middle and other side of the field and gives the LBers more opportunities to tighten the windows on the underneath stuff.

It'd be awesome if it happened. I just don't see it, but I'd love it. /

 

[Patriot80]

I agree that he's become the best CB in the league. You never know how these things work out. Belichick may think he's miles better than Samuel, and still improving (which is my read). Or maybe BB, Pees, and Capers will decide to change up the defense and go to more man-2-man which would make him very desirable. We may lose some big ticket players to free agency and have more money to spend than usual. Or maybe Asomugha decides he wants to play for a contender that is coached by a defensive genius and comes cheaply.

On the plus side, I saw a lengthy interview on the NFLN with Asomugha after Kiffin's firing, and he came across as a very humble, intelligent, well-spoken young man.

He does seem like a very humble guy and very down to earth. You make some great points, and I'm sure he would love to be playing for a great defensive team with a great system in place like we have here. IF..............and that's a BIG IF the Raiders don't tag him or sign him to a long term deal, it's very possible he might take just a little bit less to come here and make a legit run at another SB trophy.

 

[Seneschal2]

1.) Ball skills!
2.) Quick Twitch, super change of direction skills.
3.) Willingness to tackle

That is why my early favorite is Burnett of Central Florida. If he runs a decent 40 and cone drill, he could be an ideal fit for our defense; maybe not as a 1st rounder, probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

Joe Burnett is also one of my few favorites. He and Wheatley were my two CB sleepers last draft, but Burnett decided to return. Not that fast, but has the aforementioned qualities listed. Same school as Asante Samuel, and is approaching Asante's school record for passes defended. Currently has twice as many career picks as Samuel. Heck of a punt returner also. Won't time fast, which will keep him out of round one -- good news for the Pats.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Joe Burnett is also one of my few favorites. He and Wheatley were my two CB sleepers last draft, but Burnett decided to return. Not that fast, but has the aforementioned qualities listed. Same school as Asante Samuel, and is approaching Asante's school record for passes defended. Currently has twice as many career picks as Samuel. Heck of a punt returner also. Won't time fast, which will keep him out of round one -- good news for the Pats.

He didn't look that slow against South Florida. He was in the hip pocket of most of the receivers he covered. Best estimate. What do you think he'll run?

 

[DocE]

I think the need at the CB position depends greatly on the rest of this season. Does Wheatley and/or Wilhite prove that can be trusted as a starter or nickelback in 2009? If both perform well the rest of the year, CB is not much of a need going in to the offseason. If just one of the two emerges this season, then CB is a top need going in to the offseason. If neither emerges, then CB is probably the top need (or tied with the Oline) going in to the offseason.

I"d love to see the Patriots make a push for Asomugha, but I find that an unlikely possibility. The Raiders probably won't franchise him a second time after getting burned by doing that with Charles Woodson a few years ago. It's very possible that Asomugha will be the best player to actually hit the open market in the Spring.

I hope that Chris Gamble is on their radar as he's a great fit as a bigger corner with very good hands. He seems like a nice complement for Hobbs and the Panthers have Ken Lucas and Richard Marshall still under contract after this year, so they are unlikely to make Gamble their top offseason priority.

I've liked what I've seen from Dunta Robinson on occasion, but he's been very inconsistent and he's currently on the PUP list with a hamstring injury. I can't endorse signing him to a big contract without seeing a very strong second half of the season from him.

Two other names that are of some interest Kelvin Hayden and Bryant McFadden. Both would bring more size to the CB position (6'0 190lbs each), but both have their drawbacks. Hayden is a cover 2 CB for the Colts and may not be a fit for the Pats scheme. McFadden is an inconsistent player who has been starting this year. Neither would be a big signing, but both are fairly young and worth following.

It's very early, but the CB position in the draft seems weak this year. I'd rather draft a 4th round or later prospect than take a CB early. I have to think that's the likely approach of the Patriots as well.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Or maybe Asomugha decides he wants to play for a contender that is coached by a defensive genius and comes cheaply.

That's a pipe dream if you think Asomugha will come cheaply. At best he'll take a Randy Moss type deal. IE he gets paid FAIRLY but it's not a capkiller deal. A young guy like him with that type of talent at that position will be able to demand a king's ransom in free agency.