Colvin is sorely missed, whats the answer?

[KillEM]

Vrabel looks slow this year.

Slower than usual

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know if Colvin has anything left but as much as I like AD on the outside the defense was better when he was on the inside.

2007 key stats - games with Colvin vs. games without
PPG Against - 16.8 with, 17.8 without
Rushing YPG Against - 86 before - 124 without
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pXWJyKsM-8kvWJW3RwajPLg&hl=en

Currently the Pats have serious issues at ILB, Bruschi (father time) and Mayo (learning on the job) cannot cover worth a lick and are slow to fill the hole, even when they do fill the gap they are a little undersized. My ideal situation would be to use Thomas all over the field with at least 50% of his snaps coming inside with Mayo (this includes all 3rd downs and passing situations). Thomas offers the potential of an inside blitz and is the best coverage LB they have. The rub is that if Thomas moves inside they need a capable end rusher, Colvin filled that role and also brought a little swagger. To this point neither Woods or Crable have proven they can get to the QB. As the season progresses the Pats can't continue to have Bruschi, Mayo, Harrison and Merriweather all on the field at once. They are either too slow or too lost to stop the pass.

These stats are misleading. Colvin's injury coincided with the slowing down of the Pats offense. Teams ran more against the Pats later in the season because they weren't down by 2-3 TDs by halftime.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree with the author. The defense was better last year with a healthy Colvin starting. Statistics may or may not be misleading. He did not sack the QB every time but he did create pressure; pressure that might have got to Eli during the final drive of the Super Bowl. Is it a coincidence that the defense looked vulnerable when Colvin went to the DL?

Having wrote all of that, I doubt he can help us this year unless he is 100% healed.

I do think it was a coincidence that the defense looked vunerable when Colvin went down. Which had more of an affect on the defense: the loss of Colvin or the fact that teams weren't playing catch up and being one dimensional hucking the ball down field.

Besides, the only games the Pats gave up more than 13 points during the regular season that Colvin didn't play in were Baltimore and the Giants. Even in the playoffs, the Pats defense didn't give up more than 20 points.

As for the final drive of the Super Bowl, pressure wasn't the problem during that drive. The pressure made Eli make some horrendous throws. How would Colvin's pressure make Samuel or Meriweather hold onto surefire interceptions? How would pressure been any different on the Tyree pass? Thomas was dominant pass rushing on that final drive. I don't know how Colvin would have done better.

The defense was better just because Seau and Bruschi could rotate, but it wasn't significantly better.

 

[MassPats38]

LBs benefit from the defensive linemen requiring double team blocks, leaving open a clean path to the QB. Is that happening this year? If it's not, Colvin runs into an offensive lineman and goes nowhere.

The team played with substantial leads last year for most of the games. That puts the opposing team into a predictable passing play selection situation to play catch up. Do you expect more sacks on a running play or a passing play?

Who is faster, Thomas or Colvin? Who had more sacks last year as OLB, Vrabel or Colvin?

I like Colvin, but he old, frequently injured and no Lawrence Taylor standing as the missing link to spur this team to defensive greatness. He changes nothing if he returns, or actually causes the team to take a step back on defense.

 

[cstjohn17]

The defense was better just because Seau and Bruschi could rotate, but it wasn't significantly better.

This is the key point, Seau, Bruschi, Thomas, Vrabel, Colvin provided good insurance in case of injury.

Pre-Colvin inury - At the start of the year Thomas took a lot of snaps inside which allowed Bruschi and Seau to stay fresh. Vrabel and Colvin were also kept fresher when Thomas took some snaps outside.

Post Colvin Injury - Positions were set in stone, Thomas, Brushi, Seau and Vrabel. Zero depth behind them. Thomas had his up and down moments on the outside but came on strong in the playoffs, particularly the Superbowl where he was a demon.

2008 - The LB unit may be deeper from 1-9 but there is a big dropoff from the starters to any of the subs. In 2007 having 5 competent NFL starters combined with ADs flexibility allowed the unit to be productive. This year the outside LBs are holding their own but there are concerns at ILB, especially with Bruschi having to play all 3 downs. The situation at LB gets pretty scary if any of the starters go down.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

No offense to the orginal poster, but AJ you are correct. Colvin was so overrated by so many hometown fans. Watch the film. He usually was not a factor. I've seem so many similar comments and just scratch my head.

I bet if I looked hard enough I could find the occasional "the Pats will regret letting Colvin go" comments, but I'm not going to do so.

If BB wanted him, he could probably get him for the veteran minimum right now, so I suppose every other team in the league is as excited about Colvin as I am.

Colvin had a nack for making the play at a key moment. The San Diego game in SD. The Indy game when Peyton threw it to him.

He made plays. He is a fav of mine. Too bad he's not what he use to be. Is he better than Woods when healthy? Yes IMO

 

[billdog3484]

I agree 100%. our pass rush since his injury v. the Bills has been non-existent. I think vrabel is a bit overrated as a pass rusher, while thomas should be better the rest of the year. our DLine has to start dominating at the point of attack to create gaps for the LBs to shoot and attack the QB.

 

[mgteich]

We should understand that Crable is not our #3 OLB. Woods is #3, and should beat this point.

 

[cstjohn17]

We should understand that Crable is not our #3 OLB. Woods is #3, and should beat this point.

Not sure what you mean, I have never seen Woods get near a QB. Colvin was not Reggie White but he made his share of plays. Woods is a special teamer, he hasn't even hit the Tulla Bunta Cain level as a LB. Hopefully he or Crable can emerge as a semi-credible pass rush threat but as of right now last years rotation at LB was more productive and deeper than the 08 squad.

 

[condon84]

They are not using AD the way they used him in the Super Bowl. Vrabel becomes the rusher out of the two OLB and AD goes back into coverage. The couple of times I've seen AD used in the pass rush, he's applied good pressure.

I'm not saying Vrabel cannot apply pressure because he is a good rusher as well, but I think AD would be a complete beast if he were given Vrabel's responsibility. However, AD is so much better in coverage than Vrabel that they will automatically have Vrabel always rush and AD go into coverage.

Another issue with our third down package is that Jarvis Green and Wright come in as DL. They're not really applying pressure from the inside. Green might still be injured, because normally, he's a good pass rusher. I've noticed Wright apply pressure a couple of times but not enough to be a real factor.

They should make AD a DE along with Vrabel on the other side, during third and long because he is our best pass rusher.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree 100%. our pass rush since his injury v. the Bills has been non-existent. I think vrabel is a bit overrated as a pass rusher, while thomas should be better the rest of the year. our DLine has to start dominating at the point of attack to create gaps for the LBs to shoot and attack the QB.

First, Colvin went down in the third quarter of the Eagles game. Not in the Buffalo game.

Vrabel's pass rush vs. Roethlisberger almost single handily won the game from a defensive standpoint for the Pats after Colvin was IRed. He didn't register a sack, but he was able to pressure Roethlisberger so that he couldn't scramble and make good decisions. And Vrabel was being held on almost every play.

Also, the Pats sacked Pennington 5 times in the second game vs. the Jets after Colvin was IRed including 1.5 sacks by AD. The next week the Pats had 7 sacks vs. Miami including 2 sacks by Vrabel.

The facts don't support that the pass rush was non-existent after Colvin went down.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

They looked better last year because the team was up by three touchdowns every game and it made the opposing team's offense one dimensional and easier to dissect.

How about the Colts game and the Super Bowl?

 

[dtbrks]

First, Colvin went down in the third quarter of the Eagles game. Not in the Buffalo game.

Vrabel's pass rush vs. Roethlisberger almost single handily won the game from a defensive standpoint for the Pats after Colvin was IRed. He didn't register a sack, but he was able to pressure Roethlisberger so that he couldn't scramble and make good decisions. And Vrabel was being held on almost every play.

Also, the Pats sacked Pennington 5 times in the second game vs. the Jets after Colvin was IRed including 1.5 sacks by AD. The next week the Pats had 7 sacks vs. Miami including 2 sacks by Vrabel.

The facts don't support that the pass rush was non-existent after Colvin went down.

While I tend to agree that the Pats have just as good a pass rush without Rosie, I do believe their run defense has suffered without him. Someone posted the stats, which of course can be dissected to fit anyone's agenda, ie, who they played, leads, etc. That being said, my "eyes" told me the run defense was worse as Rosie set the edge and blew up a lot of plays that could have made yardage. Was he perfect, no, no one is.