Sick of the double standard

[hambone1818]

I never do this, but the past few days have prompted me to write something about what I'm seeing on this board. At first it was shock, disbelief, anger and fear. Now that people have calmed down a bit there's a bit of optimism back in the threads, which is nice because as I see it the Pats are still one of the 3 or 4 most talented teams in football.

Now, that said, my gripe is with the fans laying down this double standard where the Week 2 game--and even the season as a whole--is nothing but a win-win. What I've seen are fans saying "Hey, if we beat the Jets (or make the playoffs) that's awesome--we can prove everyone wrong and shove it right back in their faces. If we don't win (or miss the playoffs), then it won't matter because no one expected us to anyway."

Now...what the HELL is that all about?!? That is NOT a win-win, that is a win-LOSE situation. I don't care who they have at QB, this team is far too talented to miss the playoffs, and I'd also be incredibly disappointed if they lose this weekend: this is one of those games, after all the crap spewing forth from the media and other fan bases, where I would be SHOCKED if they don't come out like gangbusters and play 60 minutes of 'F-YOU' football. That's not even including the fact that the Patriots' 53-man roster is, quite frankly, still superior to the Jets'.

I'm fine with rational discussion, but when it comes to rooting for the Patriots, you're either all in or you don't belong here (this is, of course, not including fans from other treams who contribute here). Don't give me this 'well people don't expect them to win anymore, so losing isn't that bad.' With this team, YES IT IS!

 

[Wax Frog]

Just one blowout, and all will be well.

 

[Wildo7]

I agree to an extent. But then again I feel spoiled when I start expecting things. That being said, if the Bears can go to the bowl with Grossman, we can certainly get there with Cassel. This team is still too good to win less than 10 games and I don't think it's understandable if they do. Everyone is annointing the Bills AFCE champs now, which is ridiculous since they don't have a proven QB either, and are weaker in almost ever other phase of the game than the Pats.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I'm fine with rational discussion, but when it comes to rooting for the Patriots, you're either all in or you don't belong here (this is, of course, not including fans from other treams who contribute here). Don't give me this 'well people don't expect them to win anymore, so losing isn't that bad.' With this team, YES IT IS!

I don't really understand your point. I don't think anyone here is rooting against the Pats. But that's incredibly different from being concerned about how they match up with other professional football teams now that an important piece has gone away.

I expect that the Patriots will be in a dog fight. Actually, I hope they are in a dogfight. I'd take a tie game with 10 minutes left right now if you offered it to me. I very much hope I'm wrong. I'm not sure whether or not they stack up on paper against the Jets, mostly because this new Jets team is a bit of an enigma so far and only time will tell. I agree that the team will play with emotion, but I don't think that carries you for 60 minutes on the road.

I'm pessimistic about the team's chances this week because of the disruption of losing their MVP. I think you don't get over that in a week or even two. I love the early bye week this year. I hope the team plays with emotion. I view the next couple of weeks as readjustment and settling down weeks. If they can hold down the fort and get to that bye week relatively (otherwise) healthy and at .500, I think the sky's the limit after that. Anything else is gravy for me. I'm rooting hard for our new QB. Real hard. But I'm also not forgetting he's the same guy who had to get replaced in a blow out last year for throwing a silly pick 6. Time will tell.

I really don't understand the "double standard" point or the propensity for people to jump on whether others are or aren't good fans is getting over the top. We all love our team. Discussing how our MVP going down will affect things doesn't make anyone a bad fan.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Maybe I missed something, but most of what I've read says this game is HUGE for the Pats and everybody here (plus everyone I know in real time) is calling for a BEAT DOWN

 

[MarvLevy]

I agree to an extent. But then again I feel spoiled when I start expecting things. That being said, if the Bears can go to the bowl with Grossman, we can certainly get there with Cassel. This team is still too good to win less than 10 games and I don't think it's understandable if they do. Everyone is annointing the Bills AFCE champs now, which is ridiculous since they don't have a proven QB either, and are weaker in almost ever other phase of the game than the Pats.

As a Bills fan, we ar taking nothing for granted. The PAts are the kings until proven otherwise. They still have an excellent team. IT is curious that their primary backup is a guy who hasn't started since high school. But I guess who is more important to the Pats' success: Brady or BB.

 

[hambone1818]

I don't really understand your point. I don't think anyone here is rooting against the Pats. But that's incredibly different from being concerned about how they match up with other professional football teams now that an important piece has gone away.

I expect that the Patriots will be in a dog fight. Actually, I hope they are in a dogfight. I'd take a tie game with 10 minutes left right now if you offered it to me. I very much hope I'm wrong. I'm not sure whether or not they stack up on paper against the Jets, mostly because this new Jets team is a bit of an enigma so far and only time will tell. I agree that the team will play with emotion, but I don't think that carries you for 60 minutes on the road.

I'm pessimistic about the team's chances this week because of the disruption of losing their MVP. I think you don't get over that in a week or even two. I love the early bye week this year. I hope the team plays with emotion. I view the next couple of weeks as readjustment and settling down weeks. If they can hold down the fort and get to that bye week relatively (otherwise) healthy and at .500, I think the sky's the limit after that. Anything else is gravy for me. I'm rooting hard for our new QB. Real hard. But I'm also not forgetting he's the same guy who had to get replaced in a blow out last year for throwing a silly pick 6. Time will tell.

I really don't understand the "double standard" point or the propensity for people to jump on whether others are or aren't good fans is getting over the top. We all love our team. Discussing how our MVP going down will affect things doesn't make anyone a bad fan.

I think you're missing my point, and maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I'm saying that I've seen comments on this board on numerous occasions where people say something to the effect of: "I'd love it if they win, but if they don't no one is expecting them to anyway". It's certainly not as bad as rooting against the team or the constant pessimism that some on here seem to have, but I find it incredibly annoying. There IS NO silver lining to losing to the Jets...there IS NO silver lining to missing the playoffs. As the saying goes 'excuses are like a-holes, everyone has one and they all stink'. So we're missing our QB, who gives a rats ass...the defense hasn't changed, 90% of the offense hasn't changed, and the coaching staff hasn't changed. There's no excuses so stop trying to justify a loss in your mind.

Sorry if this comes off as a rant, I'm just sick of fair weather fans and fans who make excuses.

 

[Jackson 2]

As a Bills fan, we ar taking nothing for granted. The PAts are the kings until proven otherwise. They still have an excellent team. IT is curious that their primary backup is a guy who hasn't started since high school. But I guess who is more important to the Pats' success: Brady or BB.

Both, not one or the other.

 

[hambone1818]

Maybe I missed something, but most of what I've read says this game is HUGE for the Pats and everybody here (plus everyone I know in real time) is calling for a BEAT DOWN

I agree, most on here are echoing those sentiments. However, I've seen the excuses and the 'silver lining' talk enough that it's more than a small minority. It's the whole fall-back crap that I'm sick of: 'well if they lose we can always say they beat our backup'.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I think you're missing my point, and maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I'm saying that I've seen comments on this board on numerous occasions where people say something to the effect of: "I'd love it if they win, but if they don't no one is expecting them to anyway". It's certainly not as bad as rooting against the team or the constant pessimism that some on here seem to have, but I find it incredibly annoying. There IS NO silver lining to losing to the Jets...there IS NO silver lining to missing the playoffs. As the saying goes 'excuses are like a-holes, everyone has one and they all stink'. So we're missing our QB, who gives a rats ass...the defense hasn't changed, 90% of the offense hasn't changed, and the coaching staff hasn't changed. There's no excuses so stop trying to justify a loss in your mind.

I understand it a bit better now and agree with much what you're saying, but also respectfully disagree with some of it.

I mean, I'd be bothered if I thought the team was making excuses before the fact for not going out and giving their best. I can understand a little sulking, but they need eventually to suck it up and play. As a fan, though, I do actually think that if the team were to lose this week, we'd all know why. I think the team moved from a heavy favorite to a slight underdog because of what happened. It is what it is. I agree there's no silver lining. It just sucks. I'm not sure that's an excuse. It just kind of is that situation.

Maybe I'm guilty of what you're talking about, but my expectations are lower for the next few weeks. I just think this is too much of a disruption to be something that can be overcome in a week or two. I think there will be a transition period over the next 3 weeks or so. After that, my expectations will be higher, but right now I see the team as just needing to hang on and get through this rough patch without any more serious damage. It's a big loss. It's Tom Brady.

The other part that I don't really agree with is the implication that as a fan I should get down on my team when it underperforms. I know that's how many fans root, and more power to them. One's relationship with his or her sports teams is a personal one and there's no right or wrong way to do it. I root for my team to succeed. I hope they do. If they don't, I understand that the other guys get paid to play and coach too, and I hope for better next time. I hear what you're saying -- it would be hard if the team took this as an excuse to fail, since there is still a lot of talent on the team. But I'm not exactly how that translates into how a good fan should or shouldn't react.

 

[signbabybrady]

I was depressed for a day or two and during that time I was a little Skitzo as to their chances but the depression has passes and I am back and I think there is no reason why this team still can't win the Super Bowl and IMO anything short is a failure.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

I agree, most on here are echoing those sentiments. However, I've seen the excuses and the 'silver lining' talk enough that it's more than a small minority. It's the whole fall-back crap that I'm sick of: 'well if they lose we can always say they beat our backup'.

I may have missed a lot of that. These last few days have been crazy as far as reading goes. Either way, venting happens a lot A few times I've had to bite my fingers myself lol.

 

[Bella*chick]

I understand what you're saying (I think), but let me just say if this means fans should be pissing and whining and screaming for Daunte Culpepper in the game thread if things don't go perfectly on Sunday, then I'm out.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

I understand what you're saying (I think), but let me just say if this means fans should be pissing and whining and screaming for Daunte Culpepper in the game thread if things don't go perfectly on Sunday, then I'm out.[/QUOTE]

ogod. I'd better start duct taping my fingers now.I'll rant if that happens,I really will.

 

[spacecrime]

We all love our team. Discussing how our MVP going down will affect things doesn't make anyone a bad fan.

Do you love your team? It sounds like you love Tom Brady and will love the team only if Brady comes back. No love for Cassel.

I love my family, but if one of my kids got incapacitated (or God forbid, died), I wouldn't be spending my time tellilng everyone how we won't be able to function as a family again because Tommy isn't here anymore, and I wouldn't appreciate anyone else saying stuff like that either.

Kripes, harping on how bad it will be under the guise of "discussing" it is pointless and depressing.

Focus on what is ahead and the challenge, not all this "Oh, poor us" and "we're doomed" crap.

 

[spacecrime]

I understand what you're saying (I think), but let me just say if this means fans should be pissing and whining and screaming for Daunte Culpepper in the game thread if things don't go perfectly on Sunday, then I'm out.

They will.

Brady had a horrible game his second or third start. No one screamed for his backup because back then fans didn't have unrealistic expectations and we weren't that good a team anyway.

Today, so-called fans get upset even when we win (look at people complaining about how we almost got picked, how KC almost scored a TD, etc). When we lose, and we will - back to back 16 win seasons is not a realistic expectation - when we lose, the media and this forum will be filled with whining and crying and complaining. It's sad but it's true.

 

[Bella*chick]

They will.

Brady had a horrible game his second or third start. No one screamed for his backup because back then fans didn't have unrealistic expectations and we weren't that good a team anyway.

Today, so-called fans get upset even when we win (look at people complaining about how we almost got picked, how KC almost scored a TD, etc). When we lose, and we will - back to back 16 win seasons is not a realistic expectation - when we lose, the media and this forum will be filled with whining and crying and complaining. It's sad but it's true.

I think you're absolutely right. People will predict 10-6 and 11-5 but when the day comes when they actually LOSE a game, fans go ballistic. It always mystifies me.

 

[Ring 6]

I never do this, but the past few days have prompted me to write something about what I'm seeing on this board. At first it was shock, disbelief, anger and fear. Now that people have calmed down a bit there's a bit of optimism back in the threads, which is nice because as I see it the Pats are still one of the 3 or 4 most talented teams in football.

Now, that said, my gripe is with the fans laying down this double standard where the Week 2 game--and even the season as a whole--is nothing but a win-win. What I've seen are fans saying "Hey, if we beat the Jets (or make the playoffs) that's awesome--we can prove everyone wrong and shove it right back in their faces. If we don't win (or miss the playoffs), then it won't matter because no one expected us to anyway."

Now...what the HELL is that all about?!? That is NOT a win-win, that is a win-LOSE situation. I don't care who they have at QB, this team is far too talented to miss the playoffs, and I'd also be incredibly disappointed if they lose this weekend: this is one of those games, after all the crap spewing forth from the media and other fan bases, where I would be SHOCKED if they don't come out like gangbusters and play 60 minutes of 'F-YOU' football. That's not even including the fact that the Patriots' 53-man roster is, quite frankly, still superior to the Jets'.

I'm fine with rational discussion, but when it comes to rooting for the Patriots, you're either all in or you don't belong here (this is, of course, not including fans from other treams who contribute here). Don't give me this 'well people don't expect them to win anymore, so losing isn't that bad.' With this team, YES IT IS!

Great post.
I get the sense that what you are 'attacking' is the fan attitude that losing would be OK because we have an excuse. And of course it is not. If we take the field, there is only one acceptable result, winning.

I do think one thing that changes, particularly for me, if that as recently as a week ago, I posted that I do not think anything less than a SB Championship could be considered a successful year. I have to say now, with Brady out, that I would tone that down.
We have gone from "There is no reason we shouldn't win the SB" to "We may have a chance to win the SB" meaning we go from a team that ought to win it in all to just another good team that is in contention.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

They will.

Brady had a horrible game his second or third start. No one screamed for his backup because back then fans didn't have unrealistic expectations and we weren't that good a team anyway.

Today, so-called fans get upset even when we win (look at people complaining about how we almost got picked, how KC almost scored a TD, etc). When we lose, and we will - back to back 16 win seasons is not a realistic expectation - when we lose, the media and this forum will be filled with whining and crying and complaining. It's sad but it's true.

Indeed. And a loss/close call Sunday WILL bring out the calls for Duante,Drew, "what a mistake to let Simms go" ....Those fans need to remember before 04, when all we wanted was a shot-not at perfection-but at the playoffs.
Some games they need to make a statement (Sunday's one of them), and they've always been pretty freakin good at doing that. But otherwise, a loss or 2 along the way won't have Culpepper et al on speed dial.

I'm ranting already and we haven't even played yet. LOL

 

[hambone1818]

Great post.
I get the sense that what you are 'attacking' is the fan attitude that losing would be OK because we have an excuse. And of course it is not. If we take the field, there is only one acceptable result, winning.

I do think one thing that changes, particularly for me, if that as recently as a week ago, I posted that I do not think anything less than a SB Championship could be considered a successful year. I have to say now, with Brady out, that I would tone that down.
We have gone from "There is no reason we shouldn't win the SB" to "We may have a chance to win the SB" meaning we go from a team that ought to win it in all to just another good team that is in contention.

THANK YOU...you said in one sentence what I barely stumbled over in that whole rant.

It's not an issue with people being rational--I think everyone who follows football realizes that the Patriots, previously a good bet to make the SB, are weakened after losing Brady--it's an issue with people now making excuses for future losses. Two years ago the Colts lost Sanders, this year they lost Saturday. The Eagles, the year they went to the SB, lost TO for the stretch run. SD has lost more star players the last two years than the Pats have lost in the last 5. That doesn't mean the team (or their fans) has an excuse if/when they lose, it just means they have to adjust their style, lean heavier on different players, and step up their overall effort. But don't for a second believe that BB and the Patriots will be making excuses if they lose, and we as fans shouldn't either.