Completing the Roster

[mgteich]

We seem to have 6 vulnerable players as Belichick looks around after Week One for upgrades for the 53 man roster. Faulk and Flynn seem to be no-brainers to come back. That could be it, or we could have more additions. A starting RG would be great, but we might go with Hochstein and Yates for a few weeks. That's why they're on the roster.

THE SIX AT THE BOTTOM
OL - LEVIOR warming the bench for Flynn I would think
OL - CONNOLLY vulnerable if bb wants Welbourn or another vet; but Connolly could stay
(he seems to have prospects as to be our backup center after this year)
ST - JONES warming the bench for Faulk we all say (but another could go instead)
ST/WR - VENTRONE
ST/S - SLATER
ST - AIKEN

How many here would be disappointed if we kept Jones instead of Slater? I think Aiken is a injured highly respect STer who is expected to help us in the last half of the season. Or, Aiken could be negotiating an injury settlement.

================================
Belichick is certainly capable of surprises, but the rest of the roster seems safe to me, including Lewis Sanders and Guyton. The choices have been made, and they all have shown the coaches that they are worth having on the roster.

OFFENSE (23)
QB - 3 Tom Brady, Cassel, O'Connell
RB - 3 Maroney, Morris, Jordan
FB - 1 Evans
C - 1 Koppen
G - 3 Hochstein, Mankins, Yates
OT - 3 Light, Kaczur, Britt
WR - 4 Moss, Welker, Washington, Gaffney
TE - 3 Watson, Dave Thomas, Spach

DEFENSE (23)
DE - 3 Warren, Green, Seymour
DT - 3 Wilfork, Le Kevin Smith, Wright
LB - 9 Vrabel, Adalius Thomas, Bruschi, Woods, Alexander, Izzo, Mayo, Crable, Guyton
CB - 5 Hobbs, Wheatley, Lewis Sanders, Wilhite, O'Neal
S - 3 James Sanders, Harrison, Meriweather

SPECIALISTS (3)
P - 1 Hanson
K - 1 Gostkowski
LS - 1 Paxton

 

[jeffbiologist]

I still dont know how Slater got on the team. His primary spot as a returner didnt yield any more production than anyone else on the team or in the league....unless he showed more in practice. I think this is the most specialized team we have had, but being "unique/specialized" usually means you have fewer "pure" backups. I agree with Flynn, and I like Hochstien on the bench filling in for game-day injuries. I dont want him out there for the full game, backed up by Yates. That is just TOO thin, there has to be a guy we can get(trade for a backup?) that would fill RG for half a season or longer. Remember there is alot of doubt about Neal's long term future with both knee and shoulder problems.

 

[Mainefan]

Jeff...maybe you didn't notice, but Slater returned kickoffs reasonably well, tackled well on special teams, looked pretty good on the field as a defensive back and plays wide receiver as well. He's about as specialized as a Swiss Army knife.

 

[Metaphors]

Slater is both a returner and a gunner. Not sure why people keep missing this point. That is what previously kept Willie Andrews on the team and active. Not only don't I see Slater being cut, I don't see him being inactive (unless he is a dog in practice or otherwise screwing up this opportunity).

 

[Patriotis]

Slater is both a returner and a gunner. Not sure why people keep missing this point. That is what previously kept Willie Andrews on the team and active. Not only don't I see Slater being cut, I don't see him being inactive (unless he is a dog in practice or otherwise screwing up this opportunity).

I agree, Slater stays.

 

[mgteich]

Let me make the case more clearly.

1) When Faulk comes back, do you want to keep Jones or Slater and why?

2) If Lynch or another safety is picked up, who would you cut instead of Slater, presuming that Jones is already cut to pick up Faulk? Ventrone? Aiken?

Given the health of the OL, we should keep 9 OL's, as we usually do. Belichick will upgrade the existing nine as much as he can over the coming three weeks. So, we bring in FAULK and then LYNCH (or another safety). I would think the current backup safety is very vulnerable, unless the team is working on an injury settlement with Aiken.

 

[Dragda]

I still dont know how Slater got on the team. His primary spot as a returner didnt yield any more production than anyone else on the team or in the league....unless he showed more in practice. I think this is the most specialized team we have had, but being "unique/specialized" usually means you have fewer "pure" backups. I agree with Flynn, and I like Hochstien on the bench filling in for game-day injuries. I dont want him out there for the full game, backed up by Yates. That is just TOO thin, there has to be a guy we can get(trade for a backup?) that would fill RG for half a season or longer. Remember there is alot of doubt about Neal's long term future with both knee and shoulder problems.

I liked what I saw with Slater in at DB during camp. His return game doesn't seem great. He could be a good gunner.

 

[Ring 6]

We seem to have 6 vulnerable players as Belichick looks around after Week One for upgrades for the 53 man roster. Faulk and Flynn seem to be no-brainers to come back. That could be it, or we could have more additions. A starting RG would be great, but we might go with Hochstein and Yates for a few weeks. That's why they're on the roster.

THE SIX AT THE BOTTOM
OL - LEVIOR warming the bench for Flynn I would think
OL - CONNOLLY vulnerable if bb wants Welbourn or another vet; but Connolly could stay
(he seems to have prospects as to be our backup center after this year)
ST - JONES warming the bench for Faulk we all say (but another could go instead)
ST/WR - VENTRONE
ST/S - SLATER
ST - AIKEN

How many here would be disappointed if we kept Jones instead of Slater? I think Aiken is a injured highly respect STer who is expected to help us in the last half of the season. Or, Aiken could be negotiating an injury settlement.

================================
Belichick is certainly capable of surprises, but the rest of the roster seems safe to me, including Lewis Sanders and Guyton. The choices have been made, and they all have shown the coaches that they are worth having on the roster.

OFFENSE (23)
QB - 3 Tom Brady, Cassel, O'Connell
RB - 3 Maroney, Morris, Jordan
FB - 1 Evans
C - 1 Koppen
G - 3 Hochstein, Mankins, Yates
OT - 3 Light, Kaczur, Britt
WR - 4 Moss, Welker, Washington, Gaffney
TE - 3 Watson, Dave Thomas, Spach

DEFENSE (23)
DE - 3 Warren, Green, Seymour
DT - 3 Wilfork, Le Kevin Smith, Wright
LB - 9 Vrabel, Adalius Thomas, Bruschi, Woods, Alexander, Izzo, Mayo, Crable, Guyton
CB - 5 Hobbs, Wheatley, Lewis Sanders, Wilhite, O'Neal
S - 3 James Sanders, Harrison, Meriweather

SPECIALISTS (3)
P - 1 Hanson
K - 1 Gostkowski
LS - 1 Paxton

I'm confused why you think the OL that were cut are likely to be brought back and the ones kept cut to resign them?
Why would players who made the team be vulnerable to guys they made the team instead of? What am I missing?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm confused why you think the OL that were cut are likely to be brought back and the ones kept cut to resign them?
Why would players who made the team be vulnerable to guys they made the team instead of? What am I missing?

I'm also not sure about that rationale either. And I think Spann remains vulnerable provided Watson can get healthy. We could look to go with just 2 TE or try to uncover a more talented developmental prospect. I think Spann may have caught a break when Watson started limping again because he'd been here through camp and knows the system.

 

[mgteich]

LeVoire made the team? Or is that bb didn't want to guarantee a year of Flynn's salary? Are you making a case for keeping LeViore over signing a veteran?

As I stated, I am fine with Connolly as our #8 OL. I think that he is worth keeping, but allow for the possibility that bb will trade for a guard or sign a veteran.

In any case, the #8 and #9 are likely just warming the bench until Neal and Ross return.

In the end, I am fine with whoever Dante wants as backup non-playing inactive OL's.

I'm confused why you think the OL that were cut are likely to be brought back and the ones kept cut to resign them?
Why would players who made the team be vulnerable to guys they made the team instead of? What am I missing?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm also not sure about that rationale either. And I think Spann remains vulnerable provided Watson can get healthy. We could look to go with just 2 TE or try to uncover a more talented developmental prospect. I think Spann may have caught a break when Watson started limping again because he'd been here through camp and knows the system.

Spann = S (Practice Squad), Spach = TE

 

[DaBruinz]

I still dont know how Slater got on the team. His primary spot as a returner didnt yield any more production than anyone else on the team or in the league....unless he showed more in practice. I think this is the most specialized team we have had, but being "unique/specialized" usually means you have fewer "pure" backups. I agree with Flynn, and I like Hochstien on the bench filling in for game-day injuries. I dont want him out there for the full game, backed up by Yates. That is just TOO thin, there has to be a guy we can get(trade for a backup?) that would fill RG for half a season or longer. Remember there is alot of doubt about Neal's long term future with both knee and shoulder problems.

Jeff -
I want to know what happened to the intelligent guy that used to post here last year. Whatever you did, undo it and bring him back.

1) Slater isn't JUST a kick returner. Slater is taking the spot vacated by Willie Andrews. Slater will line up at Gunner, at Returner on kicks and in coverage on kick returns. This is all while also learning more about the safety and wide receiver positions. The kid is very smart.

2) You also have to remember that, at no time during the pre-season, did you see the finished special teams product. So, if Slater did as well as you say during the pre-season, he'll do even better once the pieces are in place.

3) If you think that this team is the "most specialized team you've ever seen," you just started watching football. This team is as far from being specialized as any team that Belichick has coached. Ventrone and Slater are extremely versatile and both could end up seeing time in 5 wide formations. Morris, Jordan, Faulk and Maroney ALL have experience on kick returns with Maroney being the best of that group. Hobbs also has experience on kick returns, but we won't see him used there this year. Meriweather has experience at safety and as the nickle and dime corners. Kelley Washington will continue as a special teams ace at one gunner spot as well as getting time at WR. CJ Jones will see time on all 4 special teams units.

4) Connolly, Hochstein and Yates are all C/Gs. LaVoir is a G/T. Kaczur is a G/T.

If anything, this team is the most VERSATILE team that Belichick has put on the field.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Spann = S (Practice Squad), Spach = TE

I am struggling with the humidity today and too many similar fringe names...:violent:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am struggling with the humidity today and too many similar fringe names...:violent:

The humidity was indeed killer today. :beersign:

 

[DaBruinz]

Let me make the case more clearly.

1) When Faulk comes back, do you want to keep Jones or Slater and why?

Why do you assume its Jones or Slater on the bubble? Why not Morris?

I'd rather keep Slater because he's the more versatile and better of the two.

2) If Lynch or another safety is picked up, who would you cut instead of Slater, presuming that Jones is already cut to pick up Faulk? Ventrone? Aiken?

There is a good chance that Aiken will get IRed or given an injury settlement. Ventrone could be gone though.

Given the health of the OL, we should keep 9 OL's, as we usually do. Belichick will upgrade the existing nine as much as he can over the coming three weeks. So, we bring in FAULK and then LYNCH (or another safety). I would think the current backup safety is very vulnerable, unless the team is working on an injury settlement with Aiken.

You know what they say about assumptions. Given the health, or lack there of, of Hochstein and Connolly, I would say that Connolly is in trouble. The Pats don't need 3 C/G behind Koppen. Adding a Welbourn, who can play guard or tackle, would be much more reasonable. And fit with the idea that Belichick likes to keep 4 OTs. He's kept 4 OTs on the roster every year he's been here. There was one year where they just ran out of them.. 2005 I believe, so they were down to 3. But over-all, its been 4 every year.

 

[Jimke]

I thought that Flynn and Lynch were due back after game one

when their salaries were no longer guaranteed. Faulk will also be back.

This would mean that the Pats might waive an OL (Connolly or LeVoir),

C.J. Jones, and Aiken or Slater or Ventrone.

In the early preseason games, Connolly appear to screw up a few plays.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Slater did well in daily practises. That counts. His versitile ST roleSSS makes him a keeper over CJ Jones, who is not bad but less valuable than Slater.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They are not presumed back so much as speculated to be presumed back. Might not be back or might be back 2-3 weeks later. Might never be back. They didn't cut either just to save a few bucks on the cap. They had other needs and/or other wants out of the gate. For all we know those are long range shadow roster plans (like Seau who is still surfing) pending only injury or dropoff in performance once the games matter.

 

[mgteich]

I forget there are those who would risk going into the season with four running backs yet again. But there is no need.

I am perfectly fine with two OL veterans being signed after Game One. Flynn and Welbourn are fine upgrades.

And yes, Aiken could be working on an injury settlemnt.

Why do you assume its Jones or Slater on the bubble? Why not Morris?

I'd rather keep Slater because he's the more versatile and better of the two.



There is a good chance that Aiken will get IRed or given an injury settlement. Ventrone could be gone though.




You know what they say about assumptions. Given the health, or lack there of, of Hochstein and Connolly, I would say that Connolly is in trouble. The Pats don't need 3 C/G behind Koppen. Adding a Welbourn, who can play guard or tackle, would be much more reasonable. And fit with the idea that Belichick likes to keep 4 OTs. He's kept 4 OTs on the roster every year he's been here. There was one year where they just ran out of them.. 2005 I believe, so they were down to 3. But over-all, its been 4 every year.

 

[mgteich]

Is everyone happy with the following? Would the team be stronger?
=========================
THE SIX AT THE BOTTOM
OL - LEVIOR is warming the bench for Flynn I would think.
OL - CONNOLLY is to be replaced by a veteran OG who also plays OT, likely Welbourn.
ST - JONES is warming the bench for Faulk.
ST - AIKEN may be moved to the IR when a vet safety is signed, likely Lynch.
ST/S - SLATER will likely stay although could be cut if Aiken can come back soon
ST/WR - VENTRONE has earned his spot and is not vulnerable at all; he is our #5 WR
==========================
OUT: LeVoir, Connolly, Jones, Aiken
IN: Flynn, Welbourn, Faulk, Lynch
STAY: Slater, Ventrone
==========================
BTW, this analysis strongly says that bb has made moves so that he would not guarantee the salaries of three veterans (whether they were on the team before or others). Miguel might tell us if this was necessary for cap reasons. How much would we haved saved by cutting and re-signing, and did we need the cap room?