Just say no too....?

[midwestpatsfan]

Who are guys that you have seen associated with the patriots that you want nothing to do with? Here are mine
1. Aqib Talib,CB-Kansas I live in lawrence, so I have seen him play in person and on tv for the last 2 years, and if you watched the combine drills, you know that he is highly overrated at this point.
He is poor in recognizing plays, he does not play near as fast as his time may say, his hips are tight and his footwork is not smooth whatsoever. He is tall, but is not physical at all.

2. Sedrick Ellis, DT- I thought Ellis looked soft at the combine and did not do great in some of the drills at the combine. For me though, I do not see him as a 3-4 guy more than anything. I see him in the Raiders or Tampa Bay system much more. I think a guy like Athyba Rubin from Iowa State is a much better fit and can be had in the 3rd or 4th probably.

3. Mike Jenkins,CB- I have limited amount of tape on him so maybe he is better than what I give him credit for,but I saw a guy who played well when he wanted to and then would get real lazy at other times. I have read that he may have some attitude issues and that is not what I want from a first round type pick.

Who are yours and why?

[sebman2112]

At 7th overall:
Darren McFadden: Chicken legs, behavior issues, isn't a power runner (goes down on first contact to often), and Felix Jones (his backfield mate) put up nice overall numbers with an outstanding YPC. I believe some of McFadden's success was system based. Oh, and the Patriots already have Laurence Maroney, who performed on a high level the second half of the season, and was the playoffs leading rusher. He's also got a somewhat similar skill set, but has stronger legs.

Dan Connor: Can't protect his legs, weak in coverage, limited pass rush...need more?

Talib: He does have potential and some of his mistakes could be corrected (Kansas has been teaching their DB's some bad tech), so he would be an option a little later in the draft, but I've seen him projected as going to NE at 7th overall, and I really don't think he has any business going that high.

I can think of some others too, but if NE were to select any of those three at 7th overall I'd be completely dumbfounded.

[VJCPatriot]

Talib has dropped down my chart after his poor combine performance. I think he's only my 4th or 5th best rated corner now. That still should put him in the late 1st round range. There will be a run on Corners at some point in the draft. Let's hope the Pats come up with one of the top 3 corners. I think that's possible by dropping down to the 10-12 range.

[chowder]

Originally Posted by midwestpatsfan

Who are guys that you have seen associated with the patriots that you want nothing to do with? Here are mine
1. Aqib Talib,CB-Kansas I live in lawrence, so I have seen him play in person and on tv for the last 2 years, and if you watched the combine drills, you know that he is highly overrated at this point.
He is poor in recognizing plays, he does not play near as fast as his time may say, his hips are tight and his footwork is not smooth whatsoever. He is tall, but is not physical at all.

2. Sedrick Ellis, DT- I thought Ellis looked soft at the combine and did not do great in some of the drills at the combine. For me though, I do not see him as a 3-4 guy more than anything. I see him in the Raiders or Tampa Bay system much more. I think a guy like Athyba Rubin from Iowa State is a much better fit and can be had in the 3rd or 4th probably.

3. Mike Jenkins,CB- I have limited amount of tape on him so maybe he is better than what I give him credit for,but I saw a guy who played well when he wanted to and then would get real lazy at other times. I have read that he may have some attitude issues and that is not what I want from a first round type pick.

Who are yours and why?

1. Mike Jenkins, CB- inconsistent effort and weak bowl performance although i like his 40 time at the combine. lol
2. Glenn Dorsey DT- overrated, doesn't fit our system and history of injuries
3. Dan Connor LB- don't think he fits our scheme and is small for a Patriots linebacker

[DaBruinz]

Originally Posted by VJCPatriot

Talib has dropped down my chart after his poor combine performance. I think he's only my 4th or 5th best rated corner now. That still should put him in the late 1st round range. There will be a run on Corners at some point in the draft. Let's hope the Pats come up with one of the top 3 corners. I think that's possible by dropping down to the 10-12 range.

Your statements definitely fall under the "things that make you go Hmmmm" category.

How can you say that he had a poor performance at the Combine? The number in parenthesis are the target results for his position.

40 (4.5) - 4.47
Bench (14) - 10 (DBs are notorious for not putting up great numbers here)
Vertical (36) - 38 inches
Broad Jump (10 feet)- 10' 11 inches
3cone (7.00)- 6.82 seconds

The only area he didn't exceed the targe results is in the bench.

I look forward to hearing your reasoning.

[sebman2112]

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Your statements definitely fall under the "things that make you go Hmmmm" category.

How can you say that he had a poor performance at the Combine? The number in parenthesis are the target results for his position.

40 (4.5) - 4.47
Bench (14) - 10 (DBs are notorious for not putting up great numbers here)
Vertical (36) - 38 inches
Broad Jump (10 feet)- 10' 11 inches
3cone (7.00)- 6.82 seconds

The only area he didn't exceed the targe results is in the bench.

I look forward to hearing your reasoning.

Did you watch him at the combine? His footwork and tech was bad or inconsistent during some of the agility and coverage drills. I'd still think about taking him late first round because he does have great size, athletic ability, and potential. But, he's got some question marks, including the fact that some scouts believe he's not physical enough.

[Massjayhawk]

Do you have any idea of how stupid it is to say that even though Talib has great potential and athleticism you would drop him because of poor technique? Really. You don’t think Don Capers and Belichick might be able to coach him up a bit in that area. You drop a guy because of a lack of athleticism. You can’t coach speed, size or hops but you absolutely can coach footwork.

Show me another corner in college football that can match Talib’s on-field production over the last two years (especially you iowa st. guy.) On the biggest stage, Talib dominated the Orange Bowl. He was unbelievable as a soph and very, very good as a junior.

Now all this said, I’m on board with not thinking he’s worthy of a top 10 pick. I like any of the top de/olbs over any of the corners and I’d be very tempted to draft Cromartie over Talib later in the first. But let’s not watch a guy run a couple of cone drills or one or two clips and completely write him off.

[sebman2112]

Originally Posted by Massjayhawk

Do you have any idea of how stupid it is to say that even though Talib has great potential and athleticism you would drop him because of poor technique? Really. You don’t think Don Capers and Belichick might be able to coach him up a bit in that area. You drop a guy because of a lack of athleticism. You can’t coach speed, size or hops but you absolutely can coach footwork.

Show me another corner in college football that can match Talib’s on-field production over the last two years (especially you iowa st. guy.) On the biggest stage, Talib dominated the Orange Bowl. He was unbelievable as a soph and very, very good as a junior.

Now all this said, I’m on board with not thinking he’s worthy of a top 10 pick. I like any of the top de/olbs over any of the corners and I’d be very tempted to draft Cromartie over Talib later in the first. But let’s not watch a guy run a couple of cone drills or one or two clips and completely write him off.

What's with the fire? I never had this guy ranked in the top 10 to begin with. I'm pointing SOME of the reasons why I think the Patriots wouldn't/shouldn't pick him at 7th overall. Notice, I still said I'd take him in the later part of the first round, and said he has potential. If I was "writing him off" I'd say he's not even worth a first round pick, or worse. I've also talked about him learning some of that bad tech at Kansas, and it will have to be coached out of him.

Actually know the discussion before jumping in next time, thanks...