Chris Long's change of direction and athletic ability....impressive!

[sebman2112]

Watching the D-Line and LB drills today, and Chris Long's footwork and hips were outstanding, while he maintained good speed. He's (unofficially) run a 4.71 forty, at 6'3" 272lbs. His 34in vert was pretty nice, and his 10'4" long jump was very good.

These are the type of drills I had wanted to see Chris go through as I knew how good of a pass rusher he could be, but I wanted to see him go through some of these agility drills and coverage drills. In any case what I've seen from Chris so far has been quite impressive. He's quite the athlete, with a very nice frame/build, and agility.

[PatsandTrojans55]

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

[rsd]

Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

I think you are vastly overrating 40 times, especially when the difference is not huge. The Patriots have shown the prefer football players instead of the athletic freaks, and I think they have a justifiable position.

[sebman2112]

Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.

[ctpatsfan77]

Originally Posted by sebman2112

4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.

Was he really 291? I read on another thread that it had been corrected to 271. . . .

[PatsandTrojans55]

Originally Posted by sebman2112

4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.

Seb's,
Your right 4.71 isn't slow for 272 pound DE. It's the OLB part that I'm alittle concerned about. I'm not a Big fan of Long nor Gholston if we are going to convert them to OLBer's. I just think we aren't talking about our new playing surface enough as it pertains to this draft. When we had quicksand in between the hashes we could field a slower team but it showed up this season how slow we were at LBer. I believe that's why we got AD because of his outstanding speed with his playmaking ability. Long and Gholston to me are both OLB projects who are slow for our playing surface. IMHO.

[jays52]

Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

1) It's not a slow 40 for a 3-4 outside guy at 270.
2) That position is about explosion. Look at the broad jump and leap, explosive hips. That's what makes a guy an effective 3-4 outside linebacker. It's pretty telling about first step in rush, and finishing speed in persuit. I bet the dude can hangclean with the best of em.

Sebman, have you seen Gholston in the drills? I only got to see them running their 40's before I had to get some work done. How's he look?

[Patdown93]

Gholston looked good in the one LB drill I saw him in. He looked fluid, but not as fluid as Chris Long. He stayed low and kept his hips low. He moved well overall. He did hold the ball at a weird angle though.

[PatsandTrojans55]

Originally Posted by rsd

I think you are vastly overrating 40 times, especially when the difference is not huge. The Patriots have shown the prefer football players instead of the athletic freaks, and I think they have a justifiable position.

I don't think I do, I'm just pointing out the facts. And yes there is a Big difference between a 4.52 and a 4.62 or 4.72 especially in a game of inches. You also need to look at the yard splits. Also, I believe the Patriots are changing they're philosophy to a more speed and playmaking ability. I believe they want athletic freaks who are also football players and they won't win with "JAG"'s or "Plug and Play players" anymore. Look at the personel acquisitions the last off-season. Speed,speed and playmakers.

[jays52]

Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55

I don't think I do, I'm just pointing out the facts. And yes there is a Big difference between a 4.52 and a 4.62 or 4.72 especially in a game of inches.

How often does a linebacker run a linear 40 yard sprint? Acceleration, acceleration, acceleration. The high and broad jumps are far more accurate measures of how they will translate to position-specific playing speed. Those numbers will correlate far better to coming off of the edge or closing on a ball-carrier.

Then, we get into coverage skills and ability to effectively drop into zone. What about hip fluidity? How well do they snap their hips around? Do they maintain a z? Is their chest over their feet when they cut? Do they maintain a wide base?

You're putting way too much empasis on a 40 time.