What are your religious beliefs?

[gomezcat]

It's time to get something going in here. I was born, and partly raised a Catholic. I went to Mass until I was 10. Then, in my teenage years, I flirted with Evangelical Christianity. That was before my Heavy Metal phase- I've yet to grow out of that.

Currently, I'm an agnostic. Something or someone created the universe and I don't know what it was. As such, I just can't be an atheist.

So, what's the story for everyone else?

[Seymour93]

Born Catholic. Went to the local Catholic church until I was around 8 or so. My dad refused to go to church except for Christmas, so my mom got tired of bringing me and my litter sister because we were pretty hard to handle. Mom started going to the Presbyterian church with my sister because she knew more people who went there such as my paternal grandmother. I go there just for Christmas now. I consider myself agnostic. If I'm to do religion again it will be with the Catholic church as I have more respect for them.

[Real World]

I'm a catholic and not overly religious in the sense that I don't really go to church. I believe in God. While a believer, I am completely aware that one may, or may not exist (afterall Shaq was traded). I don't think anyone who doesn't believe is evil in any way, or that my God is holier than someone else's. That crap is junk. I think respect is key. When you begin to take your beliefs and impose them onto others, you lose me.

[Lifer]

lessee, I was born to a Jewish family that went from being very involved in the Temple ( my father was the first President of the new Reform Synagogue that was built in South Windsor, Connecticut in the early 1960's) to a family that pretty much dropped out of things in the 70's, although we believed in God, it was pretty much a Hes-out-to-get-us relationship.
I didnt really have a spiritual life into my early adulthood until 1985 at the age of 23 when I hit a bottom with trying to do it all myself and I reached out to God. I had a very strong belief in God for many years that I was sure didnt include Jesus Christ until I was born again in 2005. That has changed everything for me. That relationship is a part of me everyday and it is a pleasure to share it. Its also a pleasure to hear other peoples journeys and I always look forward to doing so.

[ironwasp]

There's a theme developing here. I too was raised a Catholic, and practiced until my mid-teens. I didn't so much fall out with religion as found it interfered with other things (sports, chasing girls etc) and just fell away.

When I got married in 1999 though it was to a practicing Catholic and so I got involved a little again and married in church. But now I cannot reconcile myself to the Church's irresponsible and hypocritical social policy, nor really its fire and brimstone black-and-white certainty of the way the world works. So I've fallen away again (and will therefore obviously go to hell).

We practice in the Anglican church in our village occasionally, but that is really more of a community thing than a religious thing to me.

So I still believe in a god of sorts, I'm just not sure who or where he is or what he would make of those who profess to organise the rest of us on his behalf.

[reflexblue]

There's a theme developing here. I too was raised a Catholic, and practiced until my late teens,then sort of fell away. In collage I read about the "childrens crusade" and realy disliked the Catholic church. But many years later I got into reading the bible,so much so that one fell apart on me. Have come to believe all the major "profets" Jesus, Budda,Mohammid, Zoroaster etc. are all voices of one diety,or entity. I believe in the anthropic principle of the universe, that is it couldn't happen randomly,the odds calculated by one theoretical physicist are 1 in15,000000000000000 that the universe would form the way it has, being able to support life. Thoses are stagering odds if true. I just ordered a couple of books dealing with the subject.One by a philosopher,and one by a T.physacist. As for me know I'm more into the mixing of Christianity,and Buddismmorals and spirituality are pretty much the same in all religeons. As long as people don't go and reinterprit them. Also I wouldn't want to belong to any organized religeon that would have me for a member. ;)

[GJAJ15]

Holy crap, talk about a consistent theme. Born and raised Catholic, attended catholic schools.. good catholic boy.. got married in the church, then divorced 17 years later. Stopped being involved with the church during that marriage, that was my fault.

After divorce, essentially banned from catholic church... find this hypocritical, as do not believe that Jesus would want me in a mundane, dead relationship.. instead would want me where I am not, in an alive one.

Couple of years ago had to go in for some major Kidney surgery, before I went in went to a franciscan chapel for confession.. anyways talked to the priest, told him my sitz. he started telling me about annulment.. almost crapped my pants. In other words, give the church about 5K go through a bunch of hoops, then you will ok in the eyes of the Catholic Church.. don't believe that that is the answer.

Now do not go to church, except for special occasions, but do stop by an open church light a candle and say a few prayers. Most days I stop for prayer, live a good moral life, dedicated to family.. it is what it is, I am a man who still believes in the basic concepts of the catholic church, but have issues with many of its laws and stands on issues. Most of the laws were made by grey haired men, who never have experienced a good relationship with a woman or ever experienced the intimacy of family life and all of its ups and downs.

[ironwasp]

I don't suppose it should be a huge surprise that there is a plethora of Catholics in the NE area, given the history and demography of Boston. But perhaps the rest of us Catholics are attracted for reasons of assimilation...

[GJAJ15]

I don't suppose it should be a huge surprise that there is a plethora of Catholics in the NE area, given the history and demography of Boston. But perhaps the rest of us Catholics are attracted for reasons of assimilation...

Not sure if anything makes sense, but this makes as much sense as anything.. grew up hardly knowing any protestant kids, a few Jewish kids.. when I went to BU for graduate school in '82, inundated with gay jewish kids.. found that interesting, and any homophobia I had went away quickly.

[ironwasp]

Not sure if anything makes sense, but this makes as much sense as anything.. grew up hardly knowing any protestant kids, a few Jewish kids.. when I went to BU for graduate school in '82, inundated with gay jewish kids.. found that interesting, and any homophobia I had went away quickly.

I had a similar experience going to college. I'd been at an independent school in the south west of England, where there were pretty much no blacks, no Asians, no Jews, no anything much other than middle class white kids. (That included the town, which was as undiverse as any I've been to in the UK). I was an oddity being a Catholic as everyone else was Anglican.

Then I went to colleage in the east (rough) end of London, and it was like being plonked down in the United Nations general assembly. It helped me revise a lot of my world view that was entirely the product of a (relatively) privileged, insulated and ignorant upbringing.

(btw Where is Block Island Sound? My cousin lives in Newport; is it near there?)

[fleabassist1]

I'm a catholic and not overly religious in the sense that I don't really go to church. I believe in God. While a believer, I am completely aware that one may, or may not exist (afterall Shaq was traded). I don't think anyone who doesn't believe is evil in any way, or that my God is holier than someone else's. That crap is junk. I think respect is key. When you begin to take your beliefs and impose them onto others, you lose me.



I was born catholic, and about 8 or 9 I was baptised Baptist. After that, I started to loose faith in the Christian god because of personal things that happened to me - so I started experimenting (and studying) with several different religions ranging from Buddhism to some Pagan religions. After studying for years and years, I am still agnostic - searching for what I find as a good fit.

[Flying Fungi]

We are generally known as 'recovering catholics'

I am good for 12 years of schooling. Something about having my parents 'excommunicated' from our parish because they got divorced started to turn me off.

Now...I find organized religion to be a source of history and fascinating architecture...

I'll identify myself as a quantum theorist with spiritual tendencies and no conviction that anything more than **** luck led us to where we are. Consciousness is its own punishment.

[GJAJ15]

(btw Where is Block Island Sound? My cousin lives in Newport; is it near there?)

In reality it is RI.

[ironwasp]

In reality it is RI.

Pretty near then. I love Rhode Island. Visiting my cousin has become one of my favourite trips. It's been about two years now, so I'm excited to be heading to Newport in November.

[Handel]

Was raised as catholic (actually my mom wanted that I go to the Church each sunday to forge my character - you know enduring the boredom during 45 minutes- ). I stopped going to church during teen (14-15).

Became atheist and rather anti-clerical.

[wistahpatsfan]

Born and raised Catholic. Wised-up when I was about ten. Had to go to church by force after and went to Catholic shool until I could get out of the house at 17 on graduation. Parents' divorce caused the dioscese to cut off contributions to my HS tuition and had to quit sports my senior year to work for tuition. Parish shut my mom off, too, at a time when she really needed help. I'll never go back to the HRCC for that alone.

Now an affirmed athiest (seen and experienced way too many absolutely unholy things). Admittedly, missing the social connections churches offer.

The only valid religion, IMO, is science. All religions are based in mind control and fairy tales originally designed to protect children and explain things science has yet to understand. There is no life after death or before birth as far as we know....there might be, though, but I'm not giving any money to those who say there is, yet.

[Miss Gomezcat]

Erm, I have an Anglican mother and a Jewish father. What does that make me? Sitting on the fence in many ways as I don't feel that I completely belong to either camp. Faith-wise, I'm an agnostic and very nearly an atheist though I can't be a complete atheist without proof that there is no God and I doubt I'll ever get that. Mr G Cat has just observed that this is the closest thing to a post from a non-Catholic, non-Jew so far on this thread.

[jct]

I am a lifelong Catholic.
I aspire to be a disciple of Jesus.
One of my protestant mentors had me study the red letter edition of the bible.
That is pure wisdom.

[Fogbuster]

Nice to see this forum cleaned up!! Congrats to those who made it happen.


As to my beliefs, I was born, baptized, and raised in the Episcopal Church. My dad was very seriously committed to his faith: he took the whole family to church every Sunday; he would lead us in prayer each night before sleep time; and he prayed every morning before he started his day.

I attended Church, was confirmed, and served as an acolyte (liturgical assistant to the priest leading the service) for five years. I had a spiritual experience with Christ Jesus when I attended my first mid-night Christmas Eve service. My dad had to push me to go, as I was a sleepy teenager, but I am forever grateful to him that he did because it opened my spiritual eyes to the love and grace of God.

When I went to college, though, my church attendance and spiritual pursuit dropped off, as I became more secular in my thinking: my concerns were focused on "making it big" in the world. Things like money, power, and fame became the "glamorous" attractions in my life. At the same time, however, I could not escape feeling my obligation to God and Jesus and my nation. It was the Vietnam era, so I felt I should join the military to fight militant atheistic communism, which I viewed the biggest threat to America and the world.

After I went on active duty, however, I began to see that the use of force does NOT provide the lasting solution to human conflicts; I needed to find a better way, a more peaceful way, a non-violent way to end human struggles. But it had to be a way that did not exclude God or people who believed in God and eternal world. I even had another visitation by Jesus when I was working on a farm in New Hampshire and Christ came to me and told me to keep on searching, that he indeed loved me very much.

Finally, after much searching for about ten years, I met the Unification Church movement in 1975 -- in New York City, of all places. I learned about God's ideal of creation, how Adam and Eve had been given a beautiful world, while being born as God's children, who should fully inherit God's love, life, and lineage. Then I saw how tragically Adam and Eve had been tempted by a rebellious archangel, Lucifer, and how they fell into unprincipled self-centered love, the opposite of God's love for the sake others. The first human ancestors fell into into the false, unGodly love of the archangel, which led to their accusing and hating each other, as well as the serpent archangel. This then later led to the first murder, when Cain killed Abel.

History has always been working to solve this fundamental problem because the human being has an innate sense of conscience that always seeks goodness. Today this desire for the right and principled way is being pursued by those who realize that God needs true sons and true daughters to grow up pure and true to God's unchanging, eternal, unique and absolute love. I learned this by the life-long support I have received from Jesus and Heaven, who led me to meet the Original True Parents, Father and Mother Moon.

The Rev. Dr. Sun Myung Moon and his wife, Dr. Hak Ja Moon, have been taking responsibility to educate the whole world about God's ideal and how to realize it, and they have endured unimaginable hardships to fulfill this mission, which is exactly what Jesus and all others have endured when trying to tell the sinful world of God's ideal. But more than Jesus and other saintly people, the True Parents have been able to establish the foundation of God's blessing of marriage to create families of pure, unchanging, eternal true love. It's been done here on earth and can never be removed, indeed, the greatest victory of all time for God.

I know that my observations will probably elicit skepticism, maybe even hostility. Nevertheless, it is what I have personally experienced and thus is the core of my religious belief, as this thread has asked, "What are your religious beliefs?".


//

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

The Rev. Dr. Sun Myung Moon and his wife, Dr. Hak Ja Moon, have been taking responsibility to educate the whole world about God's ideal and how to realize it, and they have endured unimaginable hardships to fulfill this mission, which is exactly what Jesus and all others have endured when trying to tell the sinful world of God's ideal.
Well, followers of the Unification Church are mocked and disparaged enough as is, so it's really not my intention here to perpetuate this intolerance or even to criticize your religion. But I do find the quoted passage above a bit odd. Though Sun Myung Moon has suffered social ostracization, persecution and hardship, especially in the US and his native South Korea, I really can't say it's at all comparable to what Christ is said to have suffered. Obviously, Christ never had mansions throughout the world including Gloucester MA, nor did he own the Washington Times, was once the owner of the international new wire service UPI, nor did he possess extensive holding throughout the world including the Brazilian football clue Sao Paolo. I really wouldn't say Christ or even the Dalai Lama for that matter had such extensive holdings.

As far as my religious background is concerned, I was born and raised a protestant and attended a Catholic primary school for a few years, but I cannot say I am a practicing Christian given that I only attend church twice a year on Christmas and at Easter. I've also read a bit on other religions both antiquated and current, and have attended Buddhist and Krishna temples as well as Sufi gatherings on many occasions. But when it comes down to it, I do believe in divine order and creation, and am by default a Christian given that one cannot easily dismiss the influence of cultural immersion that began since birth.

Said all this, I'll be honest and say that at this point in life, my real religious goal is to become a guru of a sex cult in San Diego. :D

[Fogbuster]

Well, followers of the Unification Church are mocked and disparaged enough as is, so it's really not my intention here to perpetuate this intolerance or even to criticize your religion. But I do find the quoted passage above a bit odd. Though Sun Myung Moon has suffered social ostracization, persecution and hardship, especially in the US and his native South Korea, I really can't say it's at all comparable to what Christ is said to have suffered. Obviously, Christ never had mansions throughout the world including Gloucester MA, nor did he own the Washington Times, was once the owner of the international new wire service UPI, nor did he possess extensive holding throughout the world including the Brazilian football clue Sao Paolo. I really wouldn't say Christ or even the Dalai Lama for that matter had such extensive holdings.

Well, you are only talking about more recent history of Rev. Moon's life. His early years were marked by torture and imprisonment by Japanese authorities for his involvement with a Korean national movement when Korean was occupied by Japan from 1905 until its defeat in 1945. Then, after liberation from Japan, Korea was partitioned and the North became communist. Again, Rev. Moon was imprisoned, beaten, tortured, and then sent to a death camp at Heung Nam, until the UN forces liberated the city during the Korean War. And, of course, there was the infamous treatment he received from the U.S. government which imprisoned him for a trumped up tax case that forever changed how American clergy kept their bank accounts: no more "pastor's funds" accounts, as almost every pastor in America had up to that point, from Roman Catholic to Southern Baptist. The first time in my life I had ever been invited in to a RC Bishop's office in Boston was when I went to discuss Rev. Moon's case. Ditto for most everyone, from the Unitarians to the Episcopalians to the Methodists, and everybody in between. Some 30 churches and other legal entities joined to file an amicus curiae brief defending Rev. Moon during his trial.

The point is, Rev. Moon is not unlike most religious pioneers: he has received an intensely hostile reception by some religious leaders for the simple reason his has something new to say, and the entrenched establishment almost always has problems with new messages. See what St. Francis of Assisi went through, for example.

As for how this compares to Christ Jesus' life: Jesus came as the King of kings, was prepared and heralded by God, had wise men from the East attend his birth, was born to a people prepared for four thousand years to receive the Messiah, and then they call him a "blasphemer" (like being called a "cult" leader today) for saying he was the Son of God. Rev. Moon says Jesus called him to fulfill the mission of building God's Kingdom, and now he gets the same kind of treatment Jesus got, except instead of physical crucifixion he's gotten verbal crucifixion and character assassination. Meanwhile, he goes on about the business of building God's Kingdom through the enterprises you mention, plus more. We are living in the most exciting time in human history, a time of fundamental change in the world. God's will is coming to fruition! Just don't look for it on the evening news; it's coming "like a thief in the night" to most, although we should prepare ourselves with prayer and humility.



//

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Well, you are only talking about more recent history of Rev. Moon's life.

Indeed, I am though I'm not sure what recent really means when his sizable holding can be traced back to the '60s or '70s. As I've stated, I just found the term "hardship" a bit odd when referring to Sun Myung Moon. As far his earlier chapter in occupied and post-liberation Korea is concerned, I'm fairly sure his experience isn't all that extraordinary from other Koreans of his generation.

But if you wish to keep debating this, then perhaps you should begin a new post on the matter rather than taking it up here for it really doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this thread to get proselytize or deconstruct.

[taltos]

Born and raised a Catholic. Still practicing my faith. Fogbuster, this statement should take some heat off of you.

[Fogbuster]

Indeed, I am though I'm not sure what recent really means when his sizable holding can be traced back to the '60s or '70s. As I've stated, I just found the term "hardship" a bit odd when referring to Sun Myung Moon. As far his earlier chapter in occupied and post-liberation Korea is concerned, I'm fairly sure his experience isn't all that extraordinary from other Koreans of his generation.

But if you wish to keep debating this, then perhaps you should begin a new post on the matter rather than taking it up here for it really doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this thread to get proselytize or deconstruct.



This is not a "debate". Things are what they are. You either accept them or you don't, because the things in question never change. The only thing that ever changes is people's perception. Jesus is the Messiah of the first advent -- one either accepts this as fact or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who Jesus is. Rev. Moon is the Messiah of the second advent -- and one either accepts it or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who he is.


I didn't come here to "proselytize". The question of this thread was: "what do you believe?", and I answered. You chose to take issue about Rev. Moon's life, and I answered it. If you don't want people to answer your challenges, don't make them. If you don't want to learn from others about their beliefs, but only want to continue your own stereotypical, uninformed, and ignorant viewpoint, that's your choice; but don't chide me for setting you straight on the facts when you are, in fact, presenting a skewed, biased, and woefully incomplete picture of someone else.


//

[Fogbuster]

Born and raised a Catholic. Still practicing my faith. Fogbuster, this statement should take some heat off of you.



So true. As someone once said: "That government which governs least is that government which governs best."

Of course, this doesn't mean anarchy is the answer, but in the end it is when people govern themselves properly that produces the greatest freedom and happiness for all.


//

[GJAJ15]

So true. As someone once said: "That government which governs least is that government which governs best."

Of course, this doesn't mean anarchy is the answer, but in the end it is when people govern themselves properly that produces the greatest freedom and happiness for all.
//

In a country whose constitution defines the separation of church and state, who defines what "people govern themselves properly", sounds like a religious and value laden overtone to me.

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

This is not a "debate". Things are what they are. You either accept them or you don't, because the things in question never change. The only thing that ever changes is people's perception. Jesus is the Messiah of the first advent -- one either accepts this as fact or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who Jesus is. Rev. Moon is the Messiah of the second advent -- and one either accepts it or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who he is.


I didn't come here to "proselytize". The question of this thread was: "what do you believe?", and I answered. You chose to take issue about Rev. Moon's life, and I answered it. If you don't want people to answer your challenges, don't make them. If you don't want to learn from others about their beliefs, but only want to continue your own stereotypical, uninformed, and ignorant viewpoint, that's your choice; but don't chide me for setting you straight on the facts when you are, in fact, presenting a skewed, biased, and woefully incomplete picture of someone else.//

LOL....look, there really was no need for the above. I questioned your presentation that Sun Myung Moon was suffering under some "hardship." OK? Move on and you really didn't need to write a tome in your replies nor was it necessary to go ballistic in the above. I'm sure I've been rather polite to you. Sheesh.
:rolleyes:

[gomezcat]

Just to clarify, this IS a religious forum. Feel free to have a debate about religion, which is the whole point, but please keep it respectful and avoid personal attacks. Thanks.

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Just to clarify, this IS a religious forum. Feel free to have a debate about religion, which is the whole point, but please keep it respectful and avoid personal attacks. Thanks.

I understood that this is a religious forum, but I thought this thread itself was about people introducing their political affiliations or lack thereof - something akin to a getting to know you sort of a thread. Appreciate the clarification though.

[Danish PATS Fan]

What are your religious beliefs?

None !!! :rocker:

Believe in The Patriots...they are my gods !!! :cool:

[Harry Boy]

Sit alone and watch this, speakers on.
http://www.biblesociety.ca/free_scriptures/escriptures/ecclesiastes3/ecclesiastes3.html

[Rawky77]

Quite simply i no longer have any religious beliefs, at least not as modern society presently defines religion. I no longer belong to any religious organizations, nor do i attend any religious meetings or fellowship with any religious groups. All of these activities were once a very large part of my life.

But the storms, the tragedies, and the cataclysms of this life have washed all of these temporary human trappings far from me.

What remains from these experiences are these simple Truths.

Jesus the Christ is the Very Son of God and He is God's one and only Messiah given as a sacrifice for all who would come to Him, Jesus the Christ has come in the flesh, died upon the Cross for my sins and yours, He was buried and on the third day by the awesome power of the One and Only True God, Jesus the Christ arose again to LIFE and LIVES forevermore. Jesus the Christ is presently and forever ALIVE.

These simple Truths are the one foundational stone left in all of my many efforts in this life and it remains in place not by my intellectual efforts or by the power of my own will, for the mind of my understanding and the steadfastness of my will change wily nilly as the circumstances of my experience in this life continually unfold.

But God in His wisdom rooted His truth in the faith of my heart rather then the mind of my understanding.
My heart of faith is impervious to my intellectual understanding and the circumstances that this life brings.

[PatsFanInVa]

One God, no virgins, saints, human intercessories, or wing-gods on either side. Just the one, thanks.

Ask me to describe Him and, if I'm thinking clearly enough, I'll tell you you already know Him, if you're thinking clearly enough. After all, all one needs is to realize participation in God; God's process of creation can only ultimately be a separation of something from God, nu? And if the ultimate reality is that God is One, the separation is illusory. Moments of that realization in the heart manifests in our everyday language as "grace" or "moments of clarity" or "holiness"... all they are, are moments when the veil is lifted, and we join for a moment in the totality of what we really are. And trying to capture it in words is just making me an ass, like every other ass who tries to capture it in words.

Paths to that realization can block, or enhance, the moments of that realization... any paths to that realization. For my own part, I block the hell out of that realization, because I am very rooted in my materialist world.

But I touch that realization now and then... the way I do it? Hardly ever in temple, so I do not attend temple anymore. I use to think that was bad... now, for me, it's just growing up. Of course, I don't reach that realization in church or a mosque. It's easier to be in touch with it in nature, but it can be anytime, anywhere... and I don't chase after it with any particular meditation, etc... it just is, and I am patient while I go about the little errands of the world.

If this makes sense to anybody else, I'm not at all surprised, in a spiritual way, and utterly shocked in a mundane way.

PFnV

[Rawky77]

One God, no virgins, saints, human intercessories, or wing-gods on either side. Just the one, thanks.

Moments of that realization in the heart manifests in our everyday language as "grace" or "moments of clarity" or "holiness"... all they are, are moments when the veil is lifted, and we join for a moment in the totality of what we really are. And trying to capture it in words is just making me an ass, like every other ass who tries to capture it in words.



PFnV

Your words are adequate and what you have said is, from my experience, valid and true. The truth be known. experience is the only true path to knowing the One and Only God.
All the rest is but a simple magicians slight of hand trick designed to keep the sheep from actually stumbling upon the Truth which is all around us and available at any moment in any situation.
For above all God is in each of us working out His salvation through us moment by moment as they unfold into our lives.
Any of us in any given moment may avail ourselves of His presence and His grace for it is ever present with us.

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I am a christian that was blind for a long time.

I listened to organized religion for many years.

I used to believe in the lies of organized religion.

Now I no longer go to the weekly brainwash session.

I listen to real christians that are against zionism.

www.powerofprophecy.com (http://www.powerofprophecy.com) is a very good eye opener for people.

I couldn't recommend it enough.

[costpet]

Many Christians believe that achohol is very bad. It leads to eternal ruin and is surely embraced by the devil.
However, there is a story in the Bible that tells of Jesus turning water into wine for his followers. It kind of made him a hero. Hey, why not? On the other hand, if he truely believed that wine was bad, he would have turned their wine into water. Can you imagine? They would have lynched him. You have to know your audience.

[Rawky77]

Many Christians believe that achohol is very bad. It leads to eternal ruin and is surely embraced by the devil.
However, there is a story in the Bible that tells of Jesus turning water into wine for his followers. It kind of made him a hero. Hey, why not? On the other hand, if he truely believed that wine was bad, he would have turned their wine into water. Can you imagine? They would have lynched him. You have to know your audience.

When one encounters the Spiritual and interprets what they see or hear only with the eyes and ears of their experiences in the flesh they come away from that encounter with even less then they started it with.

In the NT Jesus only speaks in Parables to those who are outside of His inner circle of twelve disciples. Mat 13:10-13

The marriage at Cana must be interpreted as a parable because Jesus is speaking and acting before those who are not His disciples and thus the mystery’s of the Kingdom were not to be given to them. So the Truth in these events is hidden in the symbols used by Jesus in this teaching.

What Jesus did at the marriage in Cana was not an act of fleshly debauchery as you suggest but rather it was a Spiritual revelation of His life’s purpose and destiny too bring forth in those who would become His followers a totally new basis for life in the Spirit.

As the Scriptures teach that which is born flesh is flesh and that which is born Spirit is spirit. Jn 3:6

[PatsFanInVa]

What Jesus did at the marriage in Cana was not an act of fleshly debauchery as you suggest but rather it was a Spiritual revelation of His life’s purpose and destiny too bring forth in those who would become His followers a totally new basis for life in the Spirit.

As the Scriptures teach that which is born flesh is flesh and that which is born Spirit is spirit. Jn 3:6

Keep telling yourself that :)

Wine was a common libation at such events. Of course they were drinking wine.

The really fun question is, who was getting married at Cana? ;)

PFnV

[Lifer]

Many Christians believe that achohol is very bad. It leads to eternal ruin and is surely embraced by the devil.
However, there is a story in the Bible that tells of Jesus turning water into wine for his followers. It kind of made him a hero. Hey, why not? On the other hand, if he truely believed that wine was bad, he would have turned their wine into water. Can you imagine? They would have lynched him. You have to know your audience.

try to seperate what "many Christians believe" and what the Bible actually says. Alcohol in itself is not evil. money is not evil. The Bible says not to get drunk in the spirit and the LOVE of money is evil.
so there is no inconsistancy. I, myself, choose not to drink, because that, for myself, that feeling, puts a seperation between me and God. But I have no problem with people having some wine or whatever. Its the drunkeness which the Bible addresses. likewise, people who worship money, who put it before God, that is a problem. But money itself is not evil. at least this is how i interupt the Word.

[Harry Boy]

I Am Jesus

[reflexblue]

I Am JesusYou, me, them and everything above, below, and around us are part of ONE omnipresant force or conciousness. And what the ultimite goal,or end is I really have no idea. But I beleive it was no accident that were here. The odds of that happaning are mind bogling, they truly can't be comprehended. I mean the odds of the universe turning out the way it did (and it had to support life) are a stagering 1 in 15,000,000,000,000,000 thats one in 15 quaddrillion? that the universe would turn out the way it did,to be able to support life. It may be higher, I'd have to go look it up in a theoretical physics book I have at home. Its been about 7-8 years since I read the figure. Anyways I believe God, or the energy form that created the universe is in us and in everything,everythings connected.
It does seem like some sort of test though, I do believe there is such a thing as good and evil. And maybe that test is to see who can stand up to the presance of evil and remain good. Its not the length of time we have that gives life its value, it is the person possessing and living that life who gives the life value.

I justrelized I responding to the wrong thread and I had already posted on this one. But nothing has changed. I probably said in the first post I'd check the figures but still haven't.

[reflexblue]

Another take...
Christians like to attack Atheists with something like "Well, what meaning does YOUR life have? I have eternal life!" The fact is, their "eternal life", according to the Bible, will be spent kissing the ass of a petty desert deity suffering from low self-esteem- THAT'S the vaunted and bragged-about "meaning" to THEIR lives!!! The Book of Revelation clearly reveals that the Christians will spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for the next trillion billion quaddrillion years doing NOTHING but singing praises to a god that just can't get enough compliments. Now THAT'S real meaning in life, isn't it???Mark Smith :rolleyes:

[Lifer]

Another take...
Christians like to attack Atheists with something like "Well, what meaning does YOUR life have? I have eternal life!" The fact is, their "eternal life", according to the Bible, will be spent kissing the ass of a petty desert deity suffering from low self-esteem- THAT'S the vaunted and bragged-about "meaning" to THEIR lives!!! The Book of Revelation clearly reveals that the Christians will spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for the next trillion billion quaddrillion years doing NOTHING but singing praises to a god that just can't get enough compliments. Now THAT'S real meaning in life, isn't it???Mark Smith :rolleyes:

excuse me, i believe this is a thread for people to express their own beliefs, not to attack others beliefs. Especially on Easter.

[gomezcat]

excuse me, i believe this is a thread for people to express their own beliefs, not to attack others beliefs. Especially on Easter.

Agreed. From now on, please just state your beliefs on this thread and keep the attacks out of it, or I lock it. Thanks.

[fair catch fryar]

Live and let live. For me, God or spiritual guidance can be found in the view from the top of a mountain or an ocean sunset, long before than it will reside in a building created and built upon the donations of rich and poor alike.

[Den-in-NH]

I too, was raised as a Roman Catholic.

I currently consider myself a Christian. At this point I do not believe it is neccessary or important to affiliate with a particular denomination.

That being said, my personal thoughts on God and Christ may be more in line with some Protestant viewpoints, but I still attend a Catholic mass (when I can...I work third shift into Sunday morning....) and am raising my son as a Christian through the Catholic Church.

Although some of the ceromonial aspects of the Catholic church are nothing more than "pomp and circumstance" the overall tenets of God as Creator, Jesus as Savior, Salvation through acceptance and repentance (as oppossed to good works), the Trinity, the Eucharist, and the need for Christian fellowship are all in line with my personal viewpoints.

I do not think that it is relevant whether one is a Protestant or Catholic - what is important is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior.

I enjoy the study of Christian theology and would consider myself a Christian apologist. I look forward to spending more time on this forum and discussing/debating with those with similar or variant viewpoints from my own. I am very interested in Comparative Religion and have done a fair amount of study on Christianity's differences from other religions - especially Islam. Jesus and Mohammad were quite different in their world views.

I also believe as a Christian that it is important to have an understanding of Judiasm as this is the basis of Christianity and neccessary to understand the Jewish world in which Jesus lived to fully understand His teachings. My wife is Jewish, by the way.

As my post count grows (and I can begin new thread topics) I look forward to posting on specific topics - I have a very definitive and specific viewpoint and look forward to contributing.

[PatsFanInVa]

LOL... HISTORICALLY, Easter has actually been a fine time to ahem air one's differences. I do not differ with the premise of being civil, I am just pleasantly surprised at the irony.

Reflex, there's a great popularized cosmology book called "The Whole Shebang" which I just read, by a guy named Timothy Ferris. He has a good little chunk therein on the math regarding a cosmos that would allow for our observation of said cosmos.

Of course, one very simple way to explain that the cosmos would allow for our existence to observe it, is that we are here discussing such a cosmos in the first place.

Let us postulate -- and there is good reason to do so -- that there is more than one cosmos, with more than one set of physical laws. Let us say there are a lot more.

Let us even say that there are fifteen quadrillion more.

That makes it a 50/50 chance that we'd be in the cosmos we're in. Such a cosmos, naturally, would allow for our type of life. Naturally, only we and beings like us will ask the question.

Now let us say there are a quintillion other cosmoses.

Suddenly it's overwhelmingly likely that our cosmos will support intelligen life as we know it. That is to say, in the other cosmoses in which we can not exist, we aren't around asking the question, and all you have proven is that we are where we are, because that's where we can be.

PFnV

[The_Bloke]

I hadn't noticed. Are there any catholics in here? :D

My two sisters are catholic but I am not.

[Harry Boy]

Heaven 9:00 AM:
St Peter greeting a new Protestant arrival:

Peter, "greetings we love you"
New Guy, "thank you"
Peter, "you may go anywhere you wish in heaven, Jesus loves you"
New Guy, "oh boy"
Peter, "but"
New Guy, "i knew it"
Peter "you are free to travel anywhere except that through green door over there, never ever enter that door"
New Guy, "why pete"
Peter, "because thats where the Catholics are and they think they're the only ones up here"

He walks with me
And he talks with me
And he tells me I am his own
The joy we share
As we tarry there
None other has ever known

Blessed Is The Womb---------:rocker:

[Rabbi_Goldberg]

I Am Jesus

Well, that being the case, may I have a word with you. I need to verify some of that gossip about you. Like, for instance, who really rolled that stone away from the entrance to your grave?

Not to mention, "Who's your daddy?"

[GJAJ15]

Well, that being the case, may I have a word with you. I need to verify some of that gossip about you. Like, for instance, who really rolled that stone away from the entrance to your grave?

Not to mention, "Who's your daddy?"

Sounds like a NEM quote or question to me..

[Harry Boy]

Well, that being the case, may I have a word with you. I need to verify some of that gossip about you. Like, for instance, who really rolled that stone away from the entrance to your grave?

Not to mention, "Who's your daddy?"I'm not allowed to speak of such things
"Bless You"

[OldEngland]

What Do I Believe????


I believe that in order to achieve the ultimate wellbeing and spiritual joy that is the result of being close to God you are required to……………

1) Be willing to always share your spirit with others, knowing you may receive nothing in return……….
2) Be humble…….(especially in front of God)
3) Be merciful to everyone…
4) Be pure in mind, will and emotion…
5) A peacemaker….
6) To thirst for righteousness……(while never demanding it or being hypocritical)
7) To never think, look or act in lust for a woman (or man) who is not your own…… (yes that includes your right hand as well)
8) To love your enemies unconditionally….
9) To always and continually give to those less fortunate than yourself….(whether that be in kindness, time or/and money)
10) Love your neighbour as you love yourself…..
11) Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength……

Quite a list I’m sure you’ll agree. The observant among you will notice all these characteristics are part of the teaching and ministry of one man - Jesus.

Some say the result of his teachings, Christianity, is only a crutch used by the weak and needy in times of need. I absolutely, totally and wholeheartedly agree!! Our flesh is far too weak, and too easily tempted by selfish desires to achieve any of these above for long. In my opinion you could never even think about approaching them without 3 vital things.

- The Removal of Our Sins
(We all have baggage, all of us, everyone, and I bet you can think of something right now that stops you from achieving something on that list. Forgiving yourself and others is vital.)
- Prayer (and Worship)
(Thanking God for our blessings, there are always numerous people less fortunate than ourselves. Confessing new sins. Asking God for enough strength to accomplish whatever it is we were put on this earth to do.
N.B. Who knows which religion is actually right in how to achieve this communication with God.
- Doing Works
(Saying the words without backing it up with the actions of helping others is worth little)
- “Now sin no more”

Personally, I could not accomplish the removal of my sins without Paul’s interpretation of Jesus’ message. Prayer without the belief in God, and Jesus’ message that he does indeed love and cherish everyone of us like a father. The works I always tried to do, but I have to say Jesus’ half brother James has a lot of common sense to say on the matter, and I find works much more enjoyable and easy to do now.

I have always respected everyone’s views regarding their spirituality (or their right to a lack of it) and that will never change. I myself was invited late to the party, after years of intellectual arrogance. I am only writing this because of the joy I have found following his teachings, and the affect it has had on my life every day. And even if you don’t agree, that’s fine, just please, be aware, looking back I think someone up there was trying to catch my attention for years before I wanted to notice.

I have a scientific background, and am fascinated by the history (and lack of it) surrounding this man, and his immediate followers. There are so many unusual circumstances and missing information surrounding the ministry of Jesus and that of those who immediately continued his teachings. I firmly believe these issues should not be avoided, and should be asked and actively discussed.

- Was Jesus really born divine? Or did he receive his blessing and healing powers following John’s baptism aged 30?
- If he had them before why is there no documentation of their use anywhere?
- Was Jesus really resurrected from the dead? Did he die in the first place?
- Was he really the son of God
- Did he really do all/some of the miracles the NT claims?
- Did his followers produce miracles following his death?
- Was Mary really a virgin when she had Jesus? Is there any scientific explanation for this claim however remote?
- Was an elderly Mary really a source in Luke’s gospel?
- If so why the absence of his life pre-ministry in the texts, she must have known?
- Did Jesus ever sin in his unrecorded past?
- What was a doctor (Luke) doing testifying about supernatural miracles anyway?
- And why did such a thorough and comprehensive researcher (Luke) completely miss out Jesus’ earlier life in his gospel?
- Was James (the Just) really Jesus’ biological half brother? And why did he not believe Jesus until after his death and resurrection (where he became a major force in the developing church)
- What was Jesus’ real relationship with Mary Magdalene?
- How did Paul, a man who never (we think) even meet Jesus, become the greatest force in the spread of Christianity? And if he received no extra content to his message from the “super-disciples” where did he learn it? And is it accurate?
- Did Paul use versions of the current Gospel? Or just teach what is in his letters?
- Are the attributed authors of the NT accurate?
- When were they written?
- Is there any hidden documentation?
- How would God really prefer He was worshipped?
- Is the Bible God’s Word on Earth? If so should it be taken literally or should the scope of human error be accounted for?

If I’m honest, as much as I love these questions, and will always be happy for a good debate about the answers with anyone regardless of their choice of beliefs. They really don’t matter. You judge a tree by the fruit it produces. Even if Jesus was just a man, a man with an extraordinary vision of the way to live, who got extremely lucky to have his legacy carried on the way it did even after 20 years let alone 2000. The fact is this man has saved billions of people over 2000 years, encouraged them to lead better lives, and to love each other. Even he died without resurrection, the fact is his death has wiped the slate clean in the hearts of billions of people, allowing them to move forward. Even if it was accidental he chose men from all walks of life as his disciples (and apostles) so that everyone can relate to someone. Even if the Bible is warped by human error, and Paul distorted the truth, by reading it, it saved me, and Paul was the messenger who found me, and I am not alone.

If you factor all these things together, you have to admire the beauty and dare I say majesty of this. Now look back at the teachings at the start again. They are heart-achingly pure and beautiful in every way, the perfect way to live your life. Could a simple carpenter from an adulterous relationship really have achieved this, this man, who only took three years for his wisdom to change the world forever, and after his death, sparked the emergence of normal uneducated men, most without formal religious training, to spread his message and teaching of love throughout the world to this day.


Was this man really the Son of God?
Personally I don’t need evidence.
I think the answer is clear.



If he wasn’t he should be adopted.