Celts TRADE #5..Wally, West for Allen

[Kdo5]

Where is Danny Ainge? I want to throw up all over the mans face. :mad:

[Danny Boy®]

Need details.

Go Pats! Yahoo!

[MrBigglesWorth]

They are enver going to get rid of these hi-priced veteran coontracts. They get rid of one and take on another. They should have went with youth. Allen will be done in 2-3 years and same with Pierce.

[The Gr8est]

Good thing for me that I haven't paid attention to the NBA since the 80's with the Celtics vs Lakers. If the Pats had a GM the equivalant of Danny Ainge, I would be seriously trying to find another team to follow.

[Stokes]

This is an awful, awful trade. This is a perfect example of a GM throwing the plan out the window to build a team that will go .500 for the next few years, make an early exit in the playoffs to save his job for a couple of years. How do you trade #5 in such a talented draft along with your most consistant point guard from last year for a 32 year old guy that just had major surgery on his ankle? Horrible.

[makoute]

Not a terrible trade, they got rid of Wally finally. Waste of roster spot, since he's always injured. And I'm sure Allen will get you more trade wise then Wally ever could.

[PatDaPatriot]

Instead of kowtowing to Paul Pierce, they should've traded him. This is absolutely absurd. Wow, the Celtics just used the 5th pick on a 32 year old player on the back 9. Ainge needs to go...NOW...

[Kdo5]

This is an awful, awful trade. This is a perfect example of a GM throwing the plan out the window to build a team that will go .500 for the next few years, make an early exit in the playoffs to save his job for a couple of years. How do you trade #5 in such a talented draft along with your most consistant point guard from last year for a 32 year old guy that just had major surgery on his ankle? Horrible.
Thats Danny Aing for ya.

We frigging took 2nd to last place in the league hoping for a high draft pick and all we get out of it is ******* Ray Allen.

[BradyManny2344]

Where is Danny Ainge? I want to throw up all over the mans face. :mad:

Why would you throw up over his face?

We just got a perennial All-Star for the #5 pick and a useless vet with a terrible contract. It hurts to give up Delonte, but he wasn't going to get many minutes with Rondo taking over point anyway.

[Pats726]

Maybe it will force Ainge to go byebye....SOON!!! I find Ainge a total failure..and a disgrace to what was once a championship frabchise...seems the spirit of the Celts has gone south to Foxboro...and the spirit that plagued the Pats for years is now wearing Green.
Do not see how this trade helps at all!! had heard they were going to get Swift AND Allen..and that made MORE sense..but.a LOT to give up for only one player..who has only a bit left..and is really duplicating a LOT of what the team already has.

[Stokes]

Thats Danny Aing for ya.

We frigging took 2nd to last place in the league hoping for a high draft pick and all we get out of it is ******* Ray Allen.

People point to his drafting Al Jefferson and Gerald Green, but people forget both those guys slipped way down, and a chimp could have made those picks. I thought a deal couldn't be worse than picking up Telfair for the #7 pick last year, and now I stand corrected. Now I'm just waiting to hear they've traded Al Jefferson and the #32 pick to get Antoine Walker back again.

[BradyManny2344]

They are enver going to get rid of these hi-priced veteran coontracts. They get rid of one and take on another. They should have went with youth. Allen will be done in 2-3 years and same with Pierce.

Actually, they will get rid of these high-priced veteran contracts. In 3 years when both Allen and Pierce's contracts expires.

Nobody has been looking at the Celtics rationally recently. I don't know if it's the Sox success with youth or the Pats success with youth, but the whole Celtic nation has become youth obsessed, forgetting that, currently, of all leagues, its the NBA that puts the highest value on experience.

How can this backfire? Delonte West, as much as I am a fan of his, is a JAG. Wally Sczerbiak is a horrendous defensive player with a streaky shot and an overpriced contract. Jeff Green could turn into a serviceable-to above average player in a few years. Ray Allen is an All-Star, one of the best shooters in the league, and a terrific defensive player.

WORST CASE SCENARIO: Pierce and Allen make a few runs at the playoffs, fail, make Boston relevant in the meanwhile. In those three years, Jefferson, Green and Rondo actually approach the age in their career in which they will be strong enough to form a nucleus on their own, and as Pierce and Allen's contract expires, not only do we have the cap space to resign our talent as it begins to approach its prime, we'll have room left over to sign some complimentary parts in free agency.

Honestly, for the "let's build around Al Jefferson" group, you do realize that you're probably 3+ years away from Jefferson even thinking about being able to carry a team.

Is Jeff Green really worth not contending in that period of time?

Let's keep some perspective.

[reflexblue]

Who,and what are the Celtics. :D

[GJAJ15]

I don't like it, this makes no long term sense, may make the Celts a playoff team, but never a championship team. Their irrevelance will continue...

[TomBrady'sGoat]

I can't be uniased because I've loved Allen going back to his days at UConn. I even have a Bucks jersey somewhere that I got after he went pro.

A couple years ago Boston had two awful contracts, Raef and Blount (though they were the idots who traded Antoine for Raef and gave Blount the contract). They've converted that into Allen and an expiring Ratliff. Of course it cost them a #7 and a #5 to do it, but I won't have to watch the corpse of Raef or Wally on the court.

Basically the fact that Wally, and not Ratliff, was part of this deal makes me like it a lot more.

Allen might not be able to play D, but he scored 26 ppg last year and keeps defenses honest (wasn't that what Wally was supposed to do?) with a beautiful outside shot.

I can watch Pierce, Allen, and Jefferson out there at the same time. You guys have just to talk yourself into it like I have :).

[BradyManny2344]

Allen might not be able to play D

Not true at all. He's always been on bad defensive teams, but he's a solid defender who can create some turnovers. Put him with Rondo in the backcourt, they will be a good combination defensively.

What you said about the contracts was on point. We are positioning ourselves to actually matter in free agency within a few years, and a few decent playoff runs will only help that.

[PonyExpress]

Not true at all. He's always been on bad defensive teams, but he's a solid defender who can create some turnovers. Put him with Rondo in the backcourt, they will be a good combination defensively.

What you said about the contracts was on point. We are positioning ourselves to actually matter in free agency within a few years, and a few decent playoff runs will only help that.

Allen has been a terrible defensive player for several years, mostly because he didn't even try. Now he's coming off surgery on both ankles for bone spurs. Two weeks ago he wasn't running yet. I guess we'll just gave to wait and see. Rondo, Allen (if healthy), Pierce, Jefferson and Perkins. If Pierce and Allen are healthy for 2 years, that is a 45 win team similar to the NJ Nets.

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Not true at all. He's always been on bad defensive teams, but he's a solid defender who can create some turnovers. Put him with Rondo in the backcourt, they will be a good combination defensively.

I'll admit I haven't seen him play lately. I was just going off of what I've read/heard from the media, and we all know how dangerous that is.

[BradyManny2344]

I'll admit I haven't seen him play lately. I was just going off of what I've read/heard from the media, and we all know how dangerous that is.

Fair enough. I agree, Allen's reputation is of an average defender, I happen to disagree quite a bit with that reputation based on what I've seen of him.

It's sort of like Pierce. You hear a lot of "his defense has declined in recent years". So much of defense revolves around how good your teammates are. I think PP is still a great defender, and we know he puts some pride in his D.

I think Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Al-Perk is a great defensive unit. It has speed and length, and will create turnovers and the uptempo basketball Ainge wants to create.

[BradyManny2344]

Allen has been a terrible defensive player for several years, mostly because he didn't even try.

No, the team sucked, just like the Bucks, who were a horrible defensive team while he was there. When healthy, he has the quickness and length to defend.

Again, saying his defense is lacking would be like saying Pierce's over the last couple years is lacking. I challenge both assumptions.

He's a significant upgrade defensively over Wally. While Pierce's D has been hindered by a bad team defense, Wally was, at times, that very source of the poor team defense.

[BradyManny2344]

FYI, we got Seattle's second round pick, #35 as well, apparently.

[Double G]

I guess I won't be listening to EEI tomorrow, it will be 12 hours of Ray Allen talk, WOW, what excitement. Where's Ted when you need him, that coconut head would be in his glory if he were still with the station.

I wouldn't know Ray Allen if I fell over him.

[BradyManny2344]

I've been hoping Danny manages to package the two 2nd rounders to move up, but doesn't look likely.

We don't really need two more early 2nd rounders. Our roster is still pretty full as it is. If Danny were to trade up into this range, it'd be right in his sweet spot of finding talent that has fallen.

[BradyManny2344]

Wish we had gotten 31 instead...back to back picks would've been nice.

[VJCPatriot]

I just hope to god that Yi Jianlian doesn't grow into a Superstar and Ray Allen doesn't turn out to be the second coming of Dominique Wilkins... Knowing this franchise, I am really skeptical right now.

Better hope that Koppenen wasn't the guy they were targetting in Round 2.
Who can we get now?
Another undersized forward to go along with Gomes and Powe?

[BradyManny2344]

I just hope to god that Yi Jianlian doesn't grow into a Superstar and Ray Allen doesn't turn out to be the second coming of Dominique Wilkins... Knowing this franchise, I am really skeptical right now.

I don't think this is like the Wilkins move at all. I know I sound like a C's homer or something, but Allen and Pierce will play well together...

Let's see who round 2 brings us, some good players left still.

[BradyManny2344]

Gabe Pruitt, PG.

Basically, best available player and or PG.

Let's hope we get a big with 35.

[BradyManny2344]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/37825

Strengths: Pruitt led his USC Trojan team to an outstanding tournament run this past season, showing the ability to play point guard in the process. His height and athleticism are the two most intriguing assets that he brings to the table. He has NBA 3-point range on his jumper, and has shown that he can shoot both on the move and from a standstill position. His court vision and ability to run a team have improved dramatically over his time at USC.

Weaknesses: Gabe can be too flashy at times, making it difficult for him to consistently control the tempo of the game. Everything he does seems to be at 100 miles per hour, leading him to struggle a bit in the half-court set. His shot selection surely needs to be improved. He frequently jacked up contested 3-pointers at inopportune times last season.

Outlook: Pruitt hired an agent, so he is in the draft for good. He essentially had no choice but to enter the draft because USC has the nation’s top high school prospect in 6’5 O.J. Mayo coming in next year. Pruitt should see himself drafted in the mid second round, although there have been some rumors of a possible promise in the late first round.

[BradyManny2344]

Big Baby Glen Davis with #35.

[PonyExpress]

Big Baby Glen Davis with #35.

IMO you are seriously overrating Allen's D. Wally is possibly the worst defensive 3 in the league, so anyone would be an upgrade. I am taking a wait and see attitude on this deal, I am very happy the team retained Big Al. But to make it seem like Ray Allen is anything but a poor defensive player is stretching credulity. Love the pick @#32. Maybe we can hit lightning in a bottle with BBaby at #35.

[patsfan55]

Why would you throw up over his face?

We just got a perennial All-Star for the #5 pick and a useless vet with a terrible contract. It hurts to give up Delonte, but he wasn't going to get many minutes with Rondo taking over point anyway.

im really mixed on the trade
i dont really like guys that are jus spot shooters like ray allen and wally (rip hamilton etc), so i love gettin rid of wally, he was a waste of roster spot as someone said and a waste of mins
but still i feel like we coulda gotten more
sign and trade for rashard lewis? gerald wallace?
i lknow u cant do those til july 1, but we coulda had somethin kinda in place (not tampering right?)
i wanted to trade up for horford and then get lewis
i dunno, its not awful
but hes 32
how many yrs left on his contract btw?

[patsfan55]

People point to his drafting Al Jefferson and Gerald Green, but people forget both those guys slipped way down, and a chimp could have made those picks. I thought a deal couldn't be worse than picking up Telfair for the #7 pick last year, and now I stand corrected. Now I'm just waiting to hear they've traded Al Jefferson and the #32 pick to get Antoine Walker back again.

lol
very true
they were actually my two guys i loved in both drafts but didnt think we'd have a chance at either
and yet still im like **** ainge dont screw it up

if swift and al were avail at that spot ainge woulda taken swift lol

[patsfan55]

Actually, they will get rid of these high-priced veteran contracts. In 3 years when both Allen and Pierce's contracts expires.

Nobody has been looking at the Celtics rationally recently. I don't know if it's the Sox success with youth or the Pats success with youth, but the whole Celtic nation has become youth obsessed, forgetting that, currently, of all leagues, its the NBA that puts the highest value on experience.

How can this backfire? Delonte West, as much as I am a fan of his, is a JAG. Wally Sczerbiak is a horrendous defensive player with a streaky shot and an overpriced contract. Jeff Green could turn into a serviceable-to above average player in a few years. Ray Allen is an All-Star, one of the best shooters in the league, and a terrific defensive player.

WORST CASE SCENARIO: Pierce and Allen make a few runs at the playoffs, fail, make Boston relevant in the meanwhile. In those three years, Jefferson, Green and Rondo actually approach the age in their career in which they will be strong enough to form a nucleus on their own, and as Pierce and Allen's contract expires, not only do we have the cap space to resign our talent as it begins to approach its prime, we'll have room left over to sign some complimentary parts in free agency.

Honestly, for the "let's build around Al Jefferson" group, you do realize that you're probably 3+ years away from Jefferson even thinking about being able to carry a team.

Is Jeff Green really worth not contending in that period of time?

Let's keep some perspective.

you're right for the most part
but lets not talk bout jeff green
its yi we woulda taken

also, wally woulda been off the books in two yrs vs three
isnt al a fa after two
if so, that could hand-cuff us next offseason, since we wouldnt wanna get a fa with theos money cuz then we wouldnt be able to re-sign al

[Stokes]

Fair enough. I agree, Allen's reputation is of an average defender, I happen to disagree quite a bit with that reputation based on what I've seen of him.

It's sort of like Pierce. You hear a lot of "his defense has declined in recent years". So much of defense revolves around how good your teammates are. I think PP is still a great defender, and we know he puts some pride in his D.

I think Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Al-Perk is a great defensive unit. It has speed and length, and will create turnovers and the uptempo basketball Ainge wants to create.

Pierce, Allen, and Jefferson are all minus defenders right now, in my opinion. Ray Allen has been mediocre at best on D throughout his career. Pierce can be an excellent defender when he wants to be, which is almost never anymore. Can't say that I've blamed him for that, with his minutes and pressure to score he couldn't play all out on both ends. Jefferson is still learning how to play D, he gets his block numbers from swiping at the ball when out of position. The only plus defenders I see on this team are Rondo and Tony Allen, if he comes back healthy. A big problem in my opinion is that Doc is such a poor coach that the young guys simply aren't learning how to play defense. Teams will run one play on the Celts over and over and Doc can't realize it and make adjustments.

[Stokes]

lol
very true
they were actually my two guys i loved in both drafts but didnt think we'd have a chance at either
and yet still im like **** ainge dont screw it up

if swift and al were avail at that spot ainge woulda taken swift lol

They interviewed a reporter from Seattle on New England Sports Tonight at 10:00 that said Ainge was trying to get Swift for the #7 pick, Rondo, AND Delonte last year but (thankfully) Seattle didn't bite. No idea if that's true, but that's what I'm pretty sure he said, and if so, I'm actually now happy that Ainge didn't screw things up worse tonight!

[VJCPatriot]

Ray Allen's contract seems to have 3 years left.
16.0M
17.3M
18.1M

I'm not sure where the guy from this thread gets his numbers. But it sounds about right.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116932

[patsfan55]

Pierce, Allen, and Jefferson are all minus defenders right now, in my opinion. Ray Allen has been mediocre at best on D throughout his career. Pierce can be an excellent defender when he wants to be, which is almost never anymore. Can't say that I've blamed him for that, with his minutes and pressure to score he couldn't play all out on both ends. Jefferson is still learning how to play D, he gets his block numbers from swiping at the ball when out of position. The only plus defenders I see on this team are Rondo and Tony Allen, if he comes back healthy. A big problem in my opinion is that Doc is such a poor coach that the young guys simply aren't learning how to play defense. Teams will run one play on the Celts over and over and Doc can't realize it and make adjustments.

doc has NO idea how to make adjustments
i'd possibly add gomes to the list of plus defenders

[patsfan55]

Ray Allen's contract seems to have 3 years left.
16.0M
17.3M
18.1M

I'm not sure where the guy from this thread gets his numbers. But it sounds about right.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116932

they seemed more upbeat about ray allen than any c's fan

[scout]

Interestingly, the Celts still have Theo's contract to trade. Look for more moves.

[VJCPatriot]

they seemed more upbeat about ray allen than any c's fan

Well of course, since they were giving up less. I'm sure they would have liked to dump Kirilenko, who has been in steady decline in Utah, for Ray Allen.
The Celtics on the other hand lost the #5, West, and Wally.

I like dumping Wally... but Ray Allen's contract is even bigger. so it doesn't provide any financial relief.

[patriotspride]

Why would you throw up over his face?

We just got a perennial All-Star for the #5 pick and a useless vet with a terrible contract. It hurts to give up Delonte, but he wasn't going to get many minutes with Rondo taking over point anyway.
bad tuna:(

[dhamz]

If this is the first of a series of moves, it could be the start of something good. If Danny can take Ratliff's contract and find a team blinded by Green's athleticism and add some quality players, they could make a run in the East.

If this is the end, it isn't anything to get excited about Right now this is a terrible defensive team with 3 guys who want shots, lots of shots and nothing but JAGs everywhere else. That doesn't even take into account that Pierce and Allen are old and coming off injury plagued seasons which makes it unlikely both guys stay healthy. That team gets beat easily in round one of the Eastern playoffs.

[TomBrady'sGoat]

If this is the first of a series of moves, it could be the start of something good. If Danny can take Ratliff's contract and find a team blinded by Green's athleticism and add some quality players, they could make a run in the East.

If this is the end, it isn't anything to get excited about Right now this is a terrible defensive team with 3 guys who want shots, lots of shots and nothing but JAGs everywhere else. That doesn't even take into account that Pierce and Allen are old and coming off injury plagued seasons which makes it unlikely both guys stay healthy. That team gets beat easily in round one of the Eastern playoffs.

Who easily beats this team in the first round? I don't know if any Eastern Conference team easily beats anyone in the first round. The East is downright awful. A freaking one-man team, perhaps the worst Finals team ever, represented the conference this year. A big part of my excitement is that you don't have to be very good to do anything in this Eastern Conference.

It's like the the opposite of the Jets. If they were in the NFC they'd have real playoff and maybe even superbowl hopes. Instead they have no chance at the division and are fighting for 1 playoff spot (either Denver or SD has one of the wildcards wrapped up already).

[VJCPatriot]

The East may suck but this team will need to put up 120 points a night to compensate for the terrible defense and lack of size in the front lines. What decent big man do we have besides Jefferson? NONE. Meanwhile our wings are now even more logjammed and our defense got worse. Oh and we got Ray Allen's contract for 3 more years at an average of 17M per year. Woohoo, we got older, AND we tied up our cap! Brilliant!

[Patti37]

Not true at all. He's always been on bad defensive teams, but he's a solid defender who can create some turnovers. Put him with Rondo in the backcourt, they will be a good combination defensively.

What you said about the contracts was on point. We are positioning ourselves to actually matter in free agency within a few years, and a few decent playoff runs will only help that.

My only concern with this trade has been the fact that the Celts have done very little to improve themselves defensively.

Everyone is saying Allen is a poor defender. I hope you are correct that he is a solid defender.

The Celtics did need to get a veteran. They needed someone along side Pierce to help with the development of the young players...they still have all the young players minus Delonte. If Big Al, Green, and Rondo continue to develop then we have a strong nucleus. If Tony Allen comes back strong from the ACL injury, I think they will be in decent shape. How these players will develop is unknown?

Once they lost the lottery they had to find a way to make the best of a bad situation.

[bakes781]

I liked the deal, but not with Delonte included that's too much IMO. My preference would have been to blow the whole thing up, but perhaps Allen will help Green's development.

[BradyManny2344]

Everyone is saying Allen is a poor defender.

It's just something people say b/c he's been on offense-first teams with poor defenses. Not to mention the team has sucked the past two seasons and admittedly Allen's effort may have been lacking at times on the defensive end of the court.

But to say he doesn't have the physical attributes and talent to play defense would be inaccurate.

Same goes for Paul Pierce, who recently has gotten the "he's not the same defender he was" label. Did Pierce's defense decline? Of course not. The team defense was atrocious b/c of the youngsters surrounding him and b/c Wally Sczerbiak is a huge liability.

[Real World]

Actually, they will get rid of these high-priced veteran contracts. In 3 years when both Allen and Pierce's contracts expires.

Nobody has been looking at the Celtics rationally recently. I don't know if it's the Sox success with youth or the Pats success with youth, but the whole Celtic nation has become youth obsessed, forgetting that, currently, of all leagues, its the NBA that puts the highest value on experience.

How can this backfire? Delonte West, as much as I am a fan of his, is a JAG. Wally Sczerbiak is a horrendous defensive player with a streaky shot and an overpriced contract. Jeff Green could turn into a serviceable-to above average player in a few years. Ray Allen is an All-Star, one of the best shooters in the league, and a terrific defensive player.

WORST CASE SCENARIO: Pierce and Allen make a few runs at the playoffs, fail, make Boston relevant in the meanwhile. In those three years, Jefferson, Green and Rondo actually approach the age in their career in which they will be strong enough to form a nucleus on their own, and as Pierce and Allen's contract expires, not only do we have the cap space to resign our talent as it begins to approach its prime, we'll have room left over to sign some complimentary parts in free agency.

Honestly, for the "let's build around Al Jefferson" group, you do realize that you're probably 3+ years away from Jefferson even thinking about being able to carry a team.

Is Jeff Green really worth not contending in that period of time?

Let's keep some perspective.

Relevent? Experience? Contracts are up IN THREE YEARS? My god dude how long have you followed the Celtics? I started in the 80's when they were unreal, and perenial contenders. In sports, you're either terrible, or competing for a championship. What are we now? Niether. This trade ensures anotehr 10 years of mediocrity. What we've done now, is we've traded away a piece (#5) that would grow with Rondo, Green, and Jefferson and propel us toward beng a contender. Now, we're 40+ wins for 3 years, and then starting over. Only, at that point, we'll need 4-5 years more time to be good again. 3 + 5 = 8, which means Jefferson will be 30, and we'll be right where we are now with Pierce. GROSS!

A 32 year old Shooting Guard. HAHAHAHA!!!

I'm fed up with being a Celtics fan. :enranged:

[Real World]

Not true at all. He's always been on bad defensive teams, but he's a solid defender who can create some turnovers. Put him with Rondo in the backcourt, they will be a good combination defensively.

What you said about the contracts was on point. We are positioning ourselves to actually matter in free agency within a few years, and a few decent playoff runs will only help that.

He's a liability on defense, which is why Presti entertained offers to trade him. Pierce and Allen are terrible defenders, and average 3+ TO's apiece.

GROOSSS!!! :mad:

Free Agents? HAHAHA!!!

What FA basketball player has ever signed with Boston? Brian Scalabrine? HAHAHAHA!!!

We're the Washington Celtics/Boston Wizards. :eek:

[Real World]

No, the team sucked, just like the Bucks, who were a horrible defensive team while he was there. When healthy, he has the quickness and length to defend.

Again, saying his defense is lacking would be like saying Pierce's over the last couple years is lacking. I challenge both assumptions.

He's a significant upgrade defensively over Wally. While Pierce's D has been hindered by a bad team defense, Wally was, at times, that very source of the poor team defense.

I'm a significant upgrade over Wally defensively. All 5'8 of me. What's that mean? Pierce is a terrible defender. He came into the league as a good one, and has significantly deteriorated in that department. Watch him on D, he's fat now, and hasn't moved well laterally in 3 years.

So what are we now, the 5th or 6th seed?

[BradyManny2344]

I'm a significant upgrade over Wally defensively. All 5'8 of me. What's that mean? Pierce is a terrible defender. He came into the league as a good one, and has significantly deteriorated in that department. Watch him on D, he's fat now, and hasn't moved well laterally in 3 years.

He gained weight after the injury. I started a thread on this very topic. I still think Pierce is a good defender.

[BradyManny2344]

Relevent? Experience? Contracts are up IN THREE YEARS? My god dude how long have you followed the Celtics? I started in the 80's when they were unreal, and perenial contenders. In sports, you're either terrible, or competing for a championship. What are we now? Niether. This trade ensures anotehr 10 years of mediocrity. What we've done now, is we've traded away a piece (#5) that would grow with Rondo, Green, and Jefferson and propel us toward beng a contender. Now, we're 40+ wins for 3 years, and then starting over. Only, at that point, we'll need 4-5 years more time to be good again. 3 + 5 = 8, which means Jefferson will be 30, and we'll be right where we are now with Pierce. GROSS!

A 32 year old Shooting Guard. HAHAHAHA!!!

I'm fed up with being a Celtics fan. :enranged:


Get a hold of yourself!

What year do you think that Rondo, Green, Jefferson group was going to contend in? At best, let's call it 2010.

Is one more piece to the puzzle, let's say it's Green or Brewer, really worth being irrelevant for three more seasons? Is that piece that unattainable through other means, such as trade, free agency or ensuing drafts? Is that piece such an incredible upgrade over what other pieces we have, whether we're talking a defensive swingman, (Tony Allen), or a rebounding, defense-oriented big (Kendrick Perkins)?

No, No, and No.

If no more big trades are made - and I think we will add some more pieces, but am not sure of the cost - Rondo, Green and Jefferson are still going to be there at the end of this run with Allen.

And in those three years, those guys will have been to the playoffs three times, and had that important experience. How many young guys win the championship on their first go? They don't.

If anything, this trade ensures we do NOT become the Washington Bullets who were mediocre for eternity. If we had drafted #5, then yes, we would have been stuck in that mediocrity indefinitely.

You're advocating us becoming the Chicago Bulls, who have been taking lottery picks since Jordan retired. The C's just started this rebuilding stuff in earnest the past few years, and it's never been true rebuilding. You, and other fans like you, act like we've sucked all along. We haven't, we've been mediocre, we have not truly been rebuilding. Off the top of my head, the only two lottery picks I can think of on this team right now are Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. Green, Jefferson, Rondo all were selected mid to late first round. WE HAVE NOT BEEN "REBUILDING" because we never blew it up. Danny's skilled drafting has given that illusion.

If you want to tear it up and rebuild and spend years and years making lottery picks like the Bulls have, fine, so be it. But I don't think you truly understand what rebuilding is, I don't think C's fans really get it.

This gives us a chance to get out of the mediocre cycle, and if we fail, we're in no worse shape than we were had we not taking a chance.

[dhamz]

What year do you think that Rondo, Green, Jefferson group was going to contend in?

Personally I would say the year after never.

[BradyManny2344]

Personally I would say the year after never.

Well, I'd agree with you. And I don't think the #5 pick would have made a difference either.

I think it's a pipe dream that all of our young players pan out and turn into stars, and all remain on the team. The fact is, most fans would rather have this pipe dream. I think we also have a tendency to overrate our young players here. They'll all be good players, but I'm not sure if any will ever be as good as Paul Pierce.

If people need a reminder of this fact, just think of how amazingly bad our team was without Paul Pierce last season.

They were 4-34 without Paul Pierce.

That is a pace of 8.5 wins in a season. And that IS the worst record in NBA history!!

Edit - updated for the proper math, it's even worse than I thought.

[Boston Boxer]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/37825

Strengths: Pruitt led his USC Trojan team to an outstanding tournament run this past season, showing the ability to play point guard in the process. His height and athleticism are the two most intriguing assets that he brings to the table. He has NBA 3-point range on his jumper, and has shown that he can shoot both on the move and from a standstill position. His court vision and ability to run a team have improved dramatically over his time at USC.

Weaknesses: Gabe can be too flashy at times, making it difficult for him to consistently control the tempo of the game. Everything he does seems to be at 100 miles per hour, leading him to struggle a bit in the half-court set. His shot selection surely needs to be improved. He frequently jacked up contested 3-pointers at inopportune times last season.

Outlook: Pruitt hired an agent, so he is in the draft for good. He essentially had no choice but to enter the draft because USC has the nation’s top high school prospect in 6’5 O.J. Mayo coming in next year. Pruitt should see himself drafted in the mid second round, although there have been some rumors of a possible promise in the late first round.

he sounds a lot like Marcus Banks. I think he will be a decent back up to Rondo

[Stokes]

I thought this was interesting, from today's globe in Dan Shaughnessy's article. Its a quote from probably the biggest cheerleader the Celts have, Tom Heinsohn, and another from the Cooz:

Heinsohn: "You know what happens when you are making a souffle and you mix all the ingredients and put it in the oven?" started Heinsohn. "If you take it out of the oven too soon, it flops. And that may be what we are doing."

Cooz was similarly underwhelmed.
"I didn't want them to make any trades," mused the first great Celtic. "I don't have that kind of confidence in aging free agents, especially guys like Garnett or Allen who haven't won anything."

Geez, when even Tommy says something bad about a move you KNOW it was terrible. I mean, he's such a homer he made numerous comparisons between Rajon Rondo and Bob Cousy last year!

[BradyManny2344]

I thought this was interesting, from today's globe in Dan Shaughnessy's article. Its a quote from probably the biggest cheerleader the Celts have, Tom Heinsohn, and another from the Cooz:

Heinsohn: "You know what happens when you are making a souffle and you mix all the ingredients and put it in the oven?" started Heinsohn. "If you take it out of the oven too soon, it flops. And that may be what we are doing."

Cooz was similarly underwhelmed.
"I didn't want them to make any trades," mused the first great Celtic. "I don't have that kind of confidence in aging free agents, especially guys like Garnett or Allen who haven't won anything."

Geez, when even Tommy says something bad about a move you KNOW it was terrible. I mean, he's such a homer he made numerous comparisons between Rajon Rondo and Bob Cousy last year!

Well, that's the entire point, he thought it was a bad move b/c they gave up young players. This is the same Tommy Heinson who thought Justin Reed was going to be a key part of the C's future. He - like lots of other fans here - completely overrate our young players. Tommy thinks that the young players we have here are going to bring us a title. These guys were 4-34 together last season without Paul Pierce.

[TomBrady'sGoat]

add me to the list of people who had little faith Al, Green, Rondo, and Yi were going to amount to much, especially with horrible management/coaching.

The only difference between Boston right now and past teams that seem to be in the lottery every year is Pierce. They could trade him away to speed up the process or bring in some help.

I'm sick of the Cs being bad and drafting between 7-12 every year. Last year they were truly awful. Now they'll make the playoffs. It's better than the alternative.

[scout]

Now that I've digested the trade and somewhat gotten over the next promising rookie, I must say I'm looking forward to this basketball season. Ray Allen is at an all star level or just below, same with Paul Pierce. Jefferson improves even just minimally and he is a problem for most of the opposition, and may even be all star material. Rondo has demonstrated that he can play defense and improves on the point. This team will lose some games they should have won and surprise some people by winning some big games. The critical point is that they will be winning. When Allen's contract expires/ or is traded to an almost contender ( maybe he even stays) then maybe Gerald Green will be ready. If not, they will be in position to sign a big time free agent (they will not be seeing any high draft picks). There may be one more piece to add as Theo is still aboard. Hey, they take the Eastern Conference and may even win a playoff series. The core of the team is intact and will be one free agent player away from contending (and they will be winning).

[JoeSixPat]

Seattle fans HATE losing Allen - they think they've taken a big step back while we took a step forward.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/reader_feedback.php?id=188

Actually I think this is a good trade for both teams. We gained a veteran scorer to take pressure off of Pierce, and assuming Allen is healthy, picked up an all-star that can help us actually contend.

Meanwhile we didn't give up much in terms of future potential - though I do like West, one has to give up something good to get something good.

[GJAJ15]

I thought this was interesting, from today's globe in Dan Shaughnessy's article. Its a quote from probably the biggest cheerleader the Celts have, Tom Heinsohn, and another from the Cooz:

Heinsohn: "You know what happens when you are making a souffle and you mix all the ingredients and put it in the oven?" started Heinsohn. "If you take it out of the oven too soon, it flops. And that may be what we are doing."

Cooz was similarly underwhelmed.
"I didn't want them to make any trades," mused the first great Celtic. "I don't have that kind of confidence in aging free agents, especially guys like Garnett or Allen who haven't won anything."

Geez, when even Tommy says something bad about a move you KNOW it was terrible. I mean, he's such a homer he made numerous comparisons between Rajon Rondo and Bob Cousy last year!

When I read this and listen to Maxwell and Ordway on the Radio, I find that I do not understand the NBA any more.. they and baseball rely so much on experience the game itself seems to have lost a lot of relevancy.

[patsfan55]

Well, I'd agree with you. And I don't think the #5 pick would have made a difference either.

I think it's a pipe dream that all of our young players pan out and turn into stars, and all remain on the team. The fact is, most fans would rather have this pipe dream. I think we also have a tendency to overrate our young players here. They'll all be good players, but I'm not sure if any will ever be as good as Paul Pierce.

If people need a reminder of this fact, just think of how amazingly bad our team was without Paul Pierce last season.

They were 4-34 without Paul Pierce.

That is a pace of 8.5 wins in a season. And that IS the worst record in NBA history!!

Edit - updated for the proper math, it's even worse than I thought.

agree with most of what you say
i think the one guy that actually has the POTENTIAL to be better than pierce is gerald, but he is still SOOO raw

i have been saying for a while now how much we underrate paul, and that record quantifies that statement