Trade Pierce, keep Al

[PonyExpress]

There are some tell-tale warning signs regarding Pierce that make me very wary of planning my immediate future around him. He put no effort into keeping his weight down during his stress reaction last season, ballooning to probably 250+. This offseason his notable appearances have been emceeing a celebrity poker tournament at the Playboy mansion and yukking it up with a midget outside of a hollywood hotspot. It is understandable that PP feels deprived of his proper recognition, but I have the impression he may be seeking that recognition with the wrong mindset and in the wrong places. In the end, it is better to be beloved like Don Mattingly than become a Karl Malone carpetbagger. The Truth is, a Celtic resurgence would ultimately give Pierce the recognition he most desires, and the special honor reserved for those who soldier from dusk to dawn. But PP has become blind to that fact after years of losing and the mocking whispers of his peers; He has become unable to see the forest from the bling. Now is the time to deal Pierce and get what we can, before his body and will break down further and his trade value is gone.

[scout]

As great as a player as he is/was, he was never a 'Celtic'. A few years back someone mentioned him in the same breath as Kobe to Kobe and Kobe shrugged. He probably wasn't in that category, but at the time he was doing it all. Then something happened and the next thing you knew he was being interviewed with a freakin' bandage around his head, WTF. I'm not sure what they could get for him, but I'd be in favor of another low pick if it could be accomplished.

[Real World]

We don't need to trade him yet, but come the deadline, if we're not lookig to hot, we really have to think about it.

Man thought PE, he looked so fat last year. He's always had a fatty build, which has always led me to believe that he's not a big beleiver in fitness.

[GJAJ15]

I agree with the premise, trade Pierce for some mid level players, draft well at #5 and then wait until next year when a lot of big names become available.

[BelichickFan]

I don't know, guys, a well used #5 and you guys (I have no team, so the Celtics aren't "we") seem like you could be pretty darn good. Jefferson & Pierce plus Rondo and West both had their moments last year - if you pluck a guy off at #5 who helps now . . . I think you could make a run.

I realize Wade was hurt and other teams had injuries but the Cavs won the conference with LeBron and a bunch of sh!t. Maybe I'm stupid but I think you guys could make an impact on the playoffs keeping Pierce, using #5 and still have a good looking future.

[BradyManny2344]

He has become unable to see the forest from the bling.

I'm not too concerned with what a guy does off-the-court or what you're referring to in reference to PP. Pierce is from LA and is active with some celebrity-for-charity type game(s) he does out there, so if he's mixing with celebs right now, that might be what it's about.

Pierce has only matured in the past few seasons. He's only a year removed from one of the best individual seasons by a Celtic in the past twenty years. He turned himself into a complete player who makes his teammates much better.

He's still one of the best 4th quarter players in the league, and if you get into the playoffs, the guy can be an absolute beast.

I would be extremely reluctant to trade PP. It is one of the two options this team has right now. But players like PP don't come around often. Big Al will turn himself into a perennial All-Star, IMO, but I firmly believe that he will never be as good a basketball player a Paul Pierce.

That's why I think we should take one final run with PP before blowing it up and centering things around Al and the other youngsters.

[PonyExpress]

I'm not too concerned with what a guy does off-the-court or what you're referring to in reference to PP. Pierce is from LA and is active with some celebrity-for-charity type game(s) he does out there, so if he's mixing with celebs right now, that might be what it's about.

Pierce has only matured in the past few seasons. He's only a year removed from one of the best individual seasons by a Celtic in the past twenty years. He turned himself into a complete player who makes his teammates much better.

He's still one of the best 4th quarter players in the league, and if you get into the playoffs, the guy can be an absolute beast.

I would be extremely reluctant to trade PP. It is one of the two options this team has right now. But players like PP don't come around often. Big Al will turn himself into a perennial All-Star, IMO, but I firmly believe that he will never be as good a basketball player a Paul Pierce.

That's why I think we should take one final run with PP before blowing it up and centering things around Al and the other youngsters.

Sorry it was just a play on words that I thought sounded good. I honestly think you may be giving Pierce a bit too much credit for his maturity. He came out and said he wanted Al traded, didn't keep his weight down, is making all kinds of demands and putting pressure on the front office. Pierce is very concerned with his rep around the league, his celebrity status, his lack of national TV time. I love Pierce's game, but IMO his head is in the wrong place right now from a Celtic perspective. When you accept 20 million a year, you take the good with the bad. Nobody "owes" him anything. PP is a physical freak of nature. He never had to commit himself to the weight room and still played 82 games a season like clockwork. Now he's at an age, like Randy Moss, where he needs to keep himself more focused than ever on one thing: keeping himself in shape and winning games. There are some indications that he may not be doing that. I wonder about pinning all our hopes on a 30 year old whose priorities and allegiance may be wandering.

[BradyManny2344]

Sorry it was just a play on words that I thought sounded good. I honestly think you may be giving Pierce a bit too much credit for his maturity. He came out and said he wanted Al traded, didn't keep his weight down, is making all kinds of demands and putting pressure on the front office. Pierce is very concerned with his rep around the league, his celebrity status, his lack of national TV time. I love Pierce's game, but IMO his head is in the wrong place right now from a Celtic perspective. When you accept 20 million a year, you take the good with the bad. Nobody "owes" him anything. PP is a physical freak of nature. He never had to commit himself to the weight room and still played 82 games a season like clockwork. Now he's at an age, like Randy Moss, where he needs to keep himself more focused than ever on one thing: keeping himself in shape and winning games. There are some indications that he may not be doing that. I wonder about pinning all our hopes on a 30 year old whose priorities and allegiance may be wandering.

I don't think I've seen Pierce say he wants Al traded, if he has, I'd be curious to see that quote. He's said that he wants to trade for a established vet, but I think Pierce values Big Al.

Everything Pierce says and wants is what you'd expect from any quality vet on a weak team. You have KG saying it, Kobe saying it. These guys want to win a ring (or in Kobe's case, another ring), and in the NBA, that's a really tough thing to do as on any given season, only a handful of teams have a realistic chance at winning.

[Real World]

He looked like a blimp last year. He really needs to get his body in shape now that he's going to be 30.

[PonyExpress]

I don't think I've seen Pierce say he wants Al traded, if he has, I'd be curious to see that quote. He's said that he wants to trade for a established vet, but I think Pierce values Big Al.

Everything Pierce says and wants is what you'd expect from any quality vet on a weak team. You have KG saying it, Kobe saying it. These guys want to win a ring (or in Kobe's case, another ring), and in the NBA, that's a really tough thing to do as on any given season, only a handful of teams have a realistic chance at winning.

Pierce made those quotes at the end of the season. They were pretty callous. He said, paraphrasing, "Hey I love Big Al, but this team needs vets and if Al can be traded for a star vet I'm for it." It was pretty tactless and I give Al credit for not responding. Al then basically pleaded in the press for another chance, saying (paraphrase): "Just give me and Paul another chance. Together we can bring a title to Boston."

[Real World]

Pierce made those quotes at the end of the season. They were pretty callous. He said, paraphrasing, "Hey I love Big Al, but this team needs vets and if Al can be traded for a star vet I'm for it." It was pretty tactless and I give Al credit for not responding. Al then basically pleaded in the press for another chance, saying (paraphrase): "Just give me and Paul another chance. Together we can bring a title to Boston."

I love Al Jefferson. He plays hard and with emotion. PP plays with that school yard look on his face. If I had to pick one, and trade the other, I'd keep Jefferson 10 times out of 10.

[everlong]

This morning driving to work Espn radio made it sound like the Celts had pulled the trigger on a four way deal where they gave up Jefferson and the #5 and were getting Jermaine O'Neil in return. I just rolled my eyes and thought Ainge just signed his death own death sentence. I then found out they backed out of the deal feeling they were not getting enough value and I thought thank god there's still hope if they realize that.

They should trade Pierce while he has value. They are not going to win a championship in the next 3-4 years so trade him now.

[PonyExpress]

I actually love Pierce's game. I think he is vastly underrated because he has played in Boston, outside of the national spotlight, these many years. However, I find it strange that other elite talents like Marion and Garnett have no desire to play with him. Why isn't PP on the the phone convincing Marion? If the Marion deal fell through because the Matrix doesn't want to play in Boston, in a weird way I blame PP for not being the player and leader to make it happen. Part of recruiting elite talent is the job of your all-star. Then for PP to turn around and demand a trade just seems juvenile, the sign of a guy not accepting his own share of the blame pie. If the Lakers had the pieces to make a Garnett or Marion trade happen, would they turn it down? No. What about Cleveland, no warm weather metropolis? No. Or the Pistons? No. Maybe Pierce doesn't have the pull to attract other great players to his side.

[BradyManny2344]

If the Marion deal fell through because the Matrix doesn't want to play in Boston, in a weird way I blame PP for not being the player and leader to make it happen. Part of recruiting elite talent is the job of your all-star

I agree with this part, but as I am arguing in another thread, convincing NBA players to play in Boston is a tough sell. Yes, other places have even crappier weather, weaker nightlife, less buzz, less national exposure, but Boston is still not one of those ideal places right now.

That aside, I do agree, PP has to play the role of salesman and get these idiots to realize that they are better off in Boston than remaining in the West, continuing to play in the tougher conference, and getting knocked out of the first/second round ever year for the rest of their careers.

[PonyExpress]

My 6th sense says, sadly, that the Celts will trade Al, the #5 and baggage for Garnett. The reason I feel that way is that Ordway, Gilroy & Co have hit the airways hard last week and this, selling such a trade to fans in the name of "relevancy". Relevancy is code word for "money". Key writers in the Herald are also pushing this trade and deriding Al's game. They also would benefit short term from an uptick in fan interest and sales. These cats are all dialed into the very talkative Celtic ownership and management and IMO they are prepping the fan base for the trade of Jefferson. This trade is about everything other than the long term health of this franchise. I think they were all probably shocked by the fact 90% of the fans want to keep Big Al, and I expect a full court media press over the next couple of days to sell the quick fix, 2 years and out Garnett solution. The bottom line here is the bottom line. WEEI will be airing Celtic games next season and doesn't want to lose money. Foxsportsnet has been griping about declining ad revenue, Corporate sponsors have been "grousing" about the product so the economic pressure is on Grousebeck.

[scout]

This morning driving to work Espn radio made it sound like the Celts had pulled the trigger on a four way deal where they gave up Jefferson and the #5 and were getting Jermaine O'Neil in return. I just rolled my eyes and thought Ainge just signed his death own death sentence. I then found out they backed out of the deal feeling they were not getting enough value and I thought thank god there's still hope if they realize that.

They should trade Pierce while he has value. They are not going to win a championship in the next 3-4 years so trade him now.
When I heard that I almost vomited. I wouldn't trade Jermaine O'Neil for Jefferson straight up, let alone adding the number 5.

[patsfan55]

When I heard that I almost vomited. I wouldn't trade Jermaine O'Neil for Jefferson straight up, let alone adding the number 5.

thats supposedly what the celtics said

[patsfan55]

I actually love Pierce's game. I think he is vastly underrated because he has played in Boston, outside of the national spotlight, these many years. However, I find it strange that other elite talents like Marion and Garnett have no desire to play with him. Why isn't PP on the the phone convincing Marion? If the Marion deal fell through because the Matrix doesn't want to play in Boston, in a weird way I blame PP for not being the player and leader to make it happen. Part of recruiting elite talent is the job of your all-star. Then for PP to turn around and demand a trade just seems juvenile, the sign of a guy not accepting his own share of the blame pie. If the Lakers had the pieces to make a Garnett or Marion trade happen, would they turn it down? No. What about Cleveland, no warm weather metropolis? No. Or the Pistons? No. Maybe Pierce doesn't have the pull to attract other great players to his side.


i agree with everything you say here
pierce is HIGHLY underrated
the ppl who say otherwise dont watch celtics games enough
personally, i watch at least half of almost every game, and have always liked pierce's game
some ppl might get a lil annoyed by the fact that its a lot of isolation plays, but thats jus the name of the game now
as for pierce bein a salesman, yes, he's def dropped the ball on that one
how many times have we heard guys in other sports/teams call up someone and get him on board
brady meeting with stallworth
bobby orr calling up keith foulke
etc

[patsfan55]

My 6th sense says, sadly, that the Celts will trade Al, the #5 and baggage for Garnett. The reason I feel that way is that Ordway, Gilroy & Co have hit the airways hard last week and this, selling such a trade to fans in the name of "relevancy". Relevancy is code word for "money". Key writers in the Herald are also pushing this trade and deriding Al's game. They also would benefit short term from an uptick in fan interest and sales. These cats are all dialed into the very talkative Celtic ownership and management and IMO they are prepping the fan base for the trade of Jefferson. This trade is about everything other than the long term health of this franchise. I think they were all probably shocked by the fact 90% of the fans want to keep Big Al, and I expect a full court media press over the next couple of days to sell the quick fix, 2 years and out Garnett solution. The bottom line here is the bottom line. WEEI will be airing Celtic games next season and doesn't want to lose money. Foxsportsnet has been griping about declining ad revenue, Corporate sponsors have been "grousing" about the product so the economic pressure is on Grousebeck.


im scared of this happening too
however, im also scared of the c's not trading and taking jianlin

what i want is, a trade up to number 3 (second rounder, gomes, #5, more?) and taking horford

then trading next yrs first, gerald, ratliff, delonte for rashard lewis

pg: rondo, telfair
sg: pierce, wally
sf: rashard lewis, tony allen
pf: al horford, leon powe
c: big al, perk

[PonyExpress]

I share your concern about Yi. But here's something to ponder. Yi has been raised in a special school for athletic standouts since he was a child. He has essentially been brainwashed in a lifestyle of discipline and competition. He will come to the US representing his country and people, with all the burden and pride that entails. When he performs on the court it won't be about money as much as honor, by the nature of culture in which he was raised. He is 7'1'' in sneakers and already almost 250 lbs. He is a workaholic. He is skilled and from the interviews I have seen, he has a tough but likeable personality. He has the physical god-given tools to be an elite player, the work ethic to improve, and the pressure from his countryman to help him push the rock up the hill. If the Celtics take him, I actually could deal with it now, whereas last week I would have jumped off the tobin bridge.

I would prefer Noah. I realize his stock has sunk, but now we know that he has been playing with a damaged rotator cuff. He has the energy, leadership, communication skills and athleticism to be an elite defensive player who can get his points on junk around the rim. The Celts could do alot worse than Noah at #5.

[bakes781]

I agree that the time to trade Pierce is now. It's obvious no big name FAs want to come here, so it's time to blow it up. They've been bad for many years & when we missed out on the top 2 picks in this year's draft we already knew that meant 5 more years of mediocrity.

[Real World]

My 6th sense says, sadly, that the Celts will trade Al, the #5 and baggage for Garnett. The reason I feel that way is that Ordway, Gilroy & Co have hit the airways hard last week and this, selling such a trade to fans in the name of "relevancy". Relevancy is code word for "money". Key writers in the Herald are also pushing this trade and deriding Al's game. They also would benefit short term from an uptick in fan interest and sales. These cats are all dialed into the very talkative Celtic ownership and management and IMO they are prepping the fan base for the trade of Jefferson. This trade is about everything other than the long term health of this franchise. I think they were all probably shocked by the fact 90% of the fans want to keep Big Al, and I expect a full court media press over the next couple of days to sell the quick fix, 2 years and out Garnett solution. The bottom line here is the bottom line. WEEI will be airing Celtic games next season and doesn't want to lose money. Foxsportsnet has been griping about declining ad revenue, Corporate sponsors have been "grousing" about the product so the economic pressure is on Grousebeck.


Bingo! We've got bingo!

Those clowns, and that relevency crap is ridiculous. It's all about the $$. It's funny cuz Ordway, the Big Dope, really doesn't know anything about NBA basketball. Listen to him, and the rest of the idiots talk in depth about the league, or the C's, and you'll see how they don't even know how many years Wally has left on his contract, what a player makes, how the luxury tax works, or what players/picks were traded for who. Last week they didn't even know that the C's #7 pick was part of the Telfair deal. Hello? McFly? What a bunch of retards.

[Real World]

I share your concern about Yi. But here's something to ponder. Yi has been raised in a special school for athletic standouts since he was a child. He has essentially been brainwashed in a lifestyle of discipline and competition. He will come to the US representing his country and people, with all the burden and pride that entails. When he performs on the court it won't be about money as much as honor, by the nature of culture in which he was raised. He is 7'1'' in sneakers and already almost 250 lbs. He is a workaholic. He is skilled and from the interviews I have seen, he has a tough but likeable personality. He has the physical god-given tools to be an elite player, the work ethic to improve, and the pressure from his countryman to help him push the rock up the hill. If the Celtics take him, I actually could deal with it now, whereas last week I would have jumped off the tobin bridge.

I would prefer Noah. I realize his stock has sunk, but now we know that he has been playing with a damaged rotator cuff. He has the energy, leadership, communication skills and athleticism to be an elite defensive player who can get his points on junk around the rim. The Celts could do alot worse than Noah at #5.

I want Yi. He clearly has the most potential out of every player available after #2. He might not be there though. Something tells me Atlanta might take him. Memphis probably won't since I don't think he'd play there (he & his govt want a city with a Chinese pop). Atlanta has trouble puttign fannies in the seats, and they have a sizable asian community that might buy tickets if they take him. If that happens, we'll end up with Green. That would suck IMO, since we would be reaching, and could easily take a Noah, Green, Thorton later on. If Yi & Horford are gone by the time #5 comes, I'd seriously look at trading down, maybe with Charlotte, for #8 & #22, to Chicago for #9 & a player, or to Philly for #12 & Andre Miller. #12 is late, but we could still get Thorton or Nick Young at #12, and would finally be adding a legitimate veteran PG. That would be a score for Rondo, and for the team moving forward. Philly would then be able to draft Wright, and let him develop over the 2-3 years he'll need.

[Real World]

I agree that the time to trade Pierce is now. It's obvious no big name FAs want to come here, so it's time to blow it up. They've been bad for many years & when we missed out on the top 2 picks in this year's draft we already knew that meant 5 more years of mediocrity.

I don't mind trading PP so long as we get a decent return on the sale. I don't think we are that far off from competing in the East. We have a decent core of youngs in Jefferson, Rondo, Green, West, #5, and we could probably compete with Toronto and Jersey for the division this year. Remember, the Atlantic, or titanic Division, is not overpowering.

[bakes781]

I don't mind trading PP so long as we get a decent return on the sale. I don't think we are that far off from competing in the East. We have a decent core of youngs in Jefferson, Rondo, Green, West, #5, and we could probably compete with Toronto and Jersey for the division this year. Remember, the Atlantic, or titanic Division, is not overpowering.

Yeah but no established vets want to come here & Pierce is reportedly going to ask for a trade after the draft. So why not trade him now prior to the draft when his value is still high? The goal shouldn't be to get competitive in the East it should be to compete for a championship.

[PonyExpress]

I want Yi. He clearly has the most potential out of every player available after #2. He might not be there though. Something tells me Atlanta might take him. Memphis probably won't since I don't think he'd play there (he & his govt want a city with a Chinese pop). Atlanta has trouble puttign fannies in the seats, and they have a sizable asian community that might buy tickets if they take him. If that happens, we'll end up with Green. That would suck IMO, since we would be reaching, and could easily take a Noah, Green, Thorton later on. If Yi & Horford are gone by the time #5 comes, I'd seriously look at trading down, maybe with Charlotte, for #8 & #22, to Chicago for #9 & a player, or to Philly for #12 & Andre Miller. #12 is late, but we could still get Thorton or Nick Young at #12, and would finally be adding a legitimate veteran PG. That would be a score for Rondo, and for the team moving forward. Philly would then be able to draft Wright, and let him develop over the 2-3 years he'll need.

Here's the thing about Yi that alot of people seem to be missing: Yi plays with a ****y edge. He likes to dominate and compete. He is superathletic for a big man and has the broad frame to add bulk. I don't like the way he brings the ball down when he has a clear lane to the ball basket, kind of like Perk. The indecision can be annoying. But this kid has some brazen attitude that is going very underappreciated right now. He views the NBA as a challenge and he wants to get in there and fight. This seperates him from many of the passive European big men intimidated by the American style.