Check out This Rumor

[BelichickFan]

As I've said, I'm not a Celtics' fan (or a fan of any NBA team), but I saw this from Chad Ford on ESPN :

"If Boston is passing on Yi, I think that means we might see a trade coming. There's talk that the Suns -- to slash payroll -- might be willing to take the No. 5 pick, Theo Ratliff's expiring contract and Delonte West for Shawn Marion. That would make Paul Pierce happy."

[Brarrell]

As I've said, I'm not a Celtics' fan (or a fan of any NBA team), but I saw this from Chad Ford on ESPN :

"If Boston is passing on Yi, I think that means we might see a trade coming. There's talk that the Suns -- to slash payroll -- might be willing to take the No. 5 pick, Theo Ratliff's expiring contract and Delonte West for Shawn Marion. That would make Paul Pierce happy."

Would be a great trade for the Suns terrible for the Celts. If I'm the Celts you go with Yi or Brewer. Ratliff gives you cap flexibilty and Delonte is good young veteran who is still on the books for low money and when healthy is a productive player at low money. Pierce will eventually be traded IMO.

[BelichickFan]

Would be a great trade for the Suns terrible for the Celts. If I'm the Celts you go with Yi or Brewer. Ratliff gives you cap flexibilty and Delonte is good young veteran who is still on the books for low money and when healthy is a productive player at low money. Pierce will eventually be traded IMO.
Like I said I'm not a Celtics fan so I don't understand the roster like you guys but put Jefferson, Pierce and Marion together and I can't see how it wouldn't be a good team.

[maverick4]

is the negativity towards that Yi guy because he is Asian? kind of closet racist, isn't it?

[BradyManny2344]

As I've said, I'm not a Celtics' fan (or a fan of any NBA team), but I saw this from Chad Ford on ESPN :

"If Boston is passing on Yi, I think that means we might see a trade coming. There's talk that the Suns -- to slash payroll -- might be willing to take the No. 5 pick, Theo Ratliff's expiring contract and Delonte West for Shawn Marion. That would make Paul Pierce happy."

That's funny, I was actually thinking about this exact trade (minus DWest), and how it would be a perfect fit for the C's.

Marion can play SF or PF, and he is a force on the boards, and versatile defender, which is exactly what the C's need.

[BradyManny2344]

Would be a great trade for the Suns terrible for the Celts. If I'm the Celts you go with Yi or Brewer. Ratliff gives you cap flexibilty and Delonte is good young veteran who is still on the books for low money and when healthy is a productive player at low money. Pierce will eventually be traded IMO.

What good is cap flexibility if you have no plans to make a splash in the FA market? Danny has said that he doesn't really look towards free agency as a viable way to get better.

The only good thing that Ratliff contract brings us is a chip, as plenty of teams would be happy to take on his expiring contract.

The 5th pick is worthless to the Celts unless they plan on trading Pierce and rebuilding completely.

They have two options right now: 1) truly build around Pierce 2) suck hardcore for a couple seasons and collect some lottery players.

Personally, I'd rather build around Pierce. It takes quality veteran players to win a championship, and if you want to sit around hoping that Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Rondo, etc. and this upcoming fifth pick all pan out AND somehow all happen to stay on this team for the 3-8 years it will take for them to become experienced enough to compete, then more power to you. I just think that's not worth the risk.

If they continue to try and walk this middle ground, they'll be mediocre well into next decade.

[BradyManny2344]

Think about this potential starting 5:

PG - Rondo
SG - Pierce
SF - Szczerbiak
PF - Marion
C - Jefferson

While I think Szczerbiak is overrated, he would actually be suited to this offense more. With Marion and Jefferson as forces on the board, you can see Wally getting a lot of open shots in transition or on the result of solid offensive rebounding. Marion would make up for Wally's below average D.

You could bring Tony Allen off the bench to spell Wally for great lengths, and you'd have four solid defenders on the floor (Rondo, Pierce, Marion, Allen). Heck, now that I think about it, I'd rather just start Allen and have Wally be the 6th man.

Anyway, I think if you add Marion onto the C's, they become a competitive team.

[BelichickFan]

is the negativity towards that Yi guy because he is Asian? kind of closet racist, isn't it?
Do you think that if you keep saying it that it becomes true ? Yi is a high ceiling low floor guy whether he's white, black, or anything in between. What's the negativity ? Largely that he's one of the least ready rookies they could draft and most Celtics fans probably want someone to help more now. I've never read anything to suggest it's about his race.

[scout]

There's a ton of rumors out there concerning the Celts, tho this one looks good. If the Celts trade they need to do it for an immediate impact as Pierce has two or three really good years left. Forget about any Garnett scenario, he's had 12 seasons of NBA. Remember Cowens retired after 10. I'd rather wait a few seasons and let some youngster develop then see a two year window go by and go through another 20 years of drought. Thus, I guess I would be ok with Yi, even tho he's Asian

[patsfan55]

Think about this potential starting 5:

PG - Rondo
SG - Pierce
SF - Szczerbiak
PF - Marion
C - Jefferson

While I think Szczerbiak is overrated, he would actually be suited to this offense more. With Marion and Jefferson as forces on the board, you can see Wally getting a lot of open shots in transition or on the result of solid offensive rebounding. Marion would make up for Wally's below average D.

You could bring Tony Allen off the bench to spell Wally for great lengths, and you'd have four solid defenders on the floor (Rondo, Pierce, Marion, Allen). Heck, now that I think about it, I'd rather just start Allen and have Wally be the 6th man.

Anyway, I think if you add Marion onto the C's, they become a competitive team.


tony allen will be a starter over wally this year
as long as his knee cooperates

[patsfan55]

the guys i want in order of preference that are possibly being traded:

amare stoudamire
kg
carlos boozer
rashard lewis
shawn marion
jermaine oneal
pau gasol


i dont give al up for anyone
the only time i give up gerald is for the top two guys on the list
otherwise we're talkin giving up number five, ratliff, and gomes/dwest

[BradyManny2344]

tony allen will be a starter over wally this year
as long as his knee cooperates

I think that would be wise...it would require a shift in philosophy from Ainge, which is exactly what this team needs. He believes that defense can be learned, and that the premium should be placed on offense. But if this team wants to compete, it will have to put the emphasis on defense.

A great defending team will always compete against the best teams in the league.

Marion would drastically improve the team's D, whether he plays SF or PF, and that could change on a nightly basis depending upon the team. If they wanted to go big, they could send out Rondo-Pierce-Marion-Jefferson-Perkins.

As you can see, I really hope there is something to this rumor and that this trade comes to fruition.

[PonyExpress]

I love this kid Brewer. He's got leadership traits, plays great perimeter defense, blocks shot with his length. He's only 185 lbs, but deceptively strong. This kid has ridiculous upside. He's like a Dwayne Wade, who can be had at #5. Screw Paul Pierce. I'm a Celtic fan, not a just a Pierce fan. Draft Brewer, and if Pierce can;t take it dump him at the deadline next season. Big Al is the bomb.

[BradyManny2344]

I'm a Celtic fan, not a just a Pierce fan. Draft Brewer, and if Pierce can;t take it dump him at the deadline next season. Big Al is the bomb.

But just think how long it takes to rebuild a team through the draft unless you get a bonafide superstar. Talent in the draft is much thinner nowadays, takes longer to develop, by the time these guys do develop, their contracts are up and they move on.

Re-building is a COMPLETE crapshoot. Paul Pierce is a sure thing. If we don't try to win with him, odds are, we won't be putting up another banner in a LOOOOOOOONG time.

[patsfan55]

But just think how long it takes to rebuild a team through the draft unless you get a bonafide superstar. Talent in the draft is much thinner nowadays, takes longer to develop, by the time these guys do develop, their contracts are up and they move on.

Re-building is a COMPLETE crapshoot. Paul Pierce is a sure thing. If we don't try to win with him, odds are, we won't be putting up another banner in a LOOOOOOOONG time.

i agree completely
which is why i wanna make one of those packages work for a bonafide vet star

[GJAJ15]

I think it is time for PP to move on, will never see a championship here, go to a team like Dallas or similar, a team that needs one final piece of the puzzle. We need to move on with our core younger guys, bring in some complimentary players... and do well in the draft.

[scout]

Completely agree that PP needs to be traded. So, if we trade our pick and get a seasoned vet we will have a window of two or three years to compete. That is not going to satisfy my thirst thats not been quenched since the Bird days. I'll take my chances on #5 (or trading down) and tradeing PP. Ainge is a good judge of talent when it comes to the draft, and top picks usually do not flop. I would rather get a young player or two and wait another few years for a LONG run.

[Stokes]

is the negativity towards that Yi guy because he is Asian? kind of closet racist, isn't it?

No, that would be because he's a 7 footer whose best asset is his midrange shot. Plus he has only released film of him playing against 5 foot 7 guys and refuses to work out for teams. He looked pretty awkward/gangly to me in the video I've seen. He reminds people of Nikolas Tskitisvilli (I hope that's at least close to how its spelled), which is NOT a good thing. I don't like him for the same reasons I was terrified they would take Robert Swift 2 years ago, and he's as white as the newfallen snow. Oh wait, I guess that means I must hate Chinese people AND white people.

[Real World]

As I've said, I'm not a Celtics' fan (or a fan of any NBA team), but I saw this from Chad Ford on ESPN :

"If Boston is passing on Yi, I think that means we might see a trade coming. There's talk that the Suns -- to slash payroll -- might be willing to take the No. 5 pick, Theo Ratliff's expiring contract and Delonte West for Shawn Marion. That would make Paul Pierce happy."

I'm not a fan of the Marion deal if it involves #5. Phoenix is , or will be, around the luxury tax (dollar for dollar tax for every penny over the cap) next year, or the year after, which means it has to trade a contract, or pay the money. Their owner has said he is not paying the tax. This makes Phoenix a seller, and thus in a lesser bargaining position. I don't think we need to pay a kings ransom in such a situation, and certainly would not give up #5, when the last year of the two years on Marion is an option. What happens if Marion comes here, hates it, and opts out after next season? Plus, is Marion the answer? He plays Pierce's position of SF.

Someone at CelticsBlog had mentioned making a move for Marcus Camby instead. I like that better. Denver has to move him for Tax purposes, and he wouldn't cost you #5. Adding Camby for Theo's contract, plus a player (telfair/Allen?) & pick (minny's 1st?) would be great since it would bloster our front court, and allow us to draft at #5. Think of a 4/5 rotation of Jefferson/Camby/Perkins with Pierce, Wally, Rondo, West, #5 pick, etc... that's good enough and saves our future.

[dhamz]

Teams trading guys for tax reasons are not going to take back Ratliff's contract. They aren't going to trade with the Celtics because we are over the cap and have to give equal salary back - putting them in the same tax spot with lessor talent. They need to trade to teams under the cap so they reduce salary.

[maverick4]

Completely agree that PP needs to be traded. So, if we trade our pick and get a seasoned vet we will have a window of two or three years to compete. That is not going to satisfy my thirst thats not been quenched since the Bird days. I'll take my chances on #5 (or trading down) and tradeing PP. Ainge is a good judge of talent when it comes to the draft, and top picks usually do not flop. I would rather get a young player or two and wait another few years for a LONG run.

Would Portland trade their #1 pick for Pierce or some combo involving Pierce?

I'd like to draft Oden and Brewer and rebuild the right way.

[scout]

Would Portland trade their #1 pick for Pierce or some combo involving Pierce?

I'd like to draft Oden and Brewer and rebuild the right way.
There is no way that Oden gets traded. Oden blew away Durant in a number of categories that by all rights Durant should have owned. I do like Brewer. I think he will be a dominant defensive player, something a lot of fans dismiss. Defense still wins championships, no matter what sport. If we can get two top rookies to go along with our young core, then I'm fine with watching this team develop and make a Patriot type of run.

[BradyManny2344]

I'm not a fan of the Marion deal if it involves #5.

The trade value of #5 is truly not that high at all. Look no further than the fact that the #7 yielded us Sebastian Telfair. Folks thinking that the #5 could somehow be flipped for a KG or Jermaine O'Neal need to curb their expectations. If we get Marion and all we have to give up is the #5 and Ratliff, it would be a huge steal on our end.

What happens if Marion comes here, hates it, and opts out after next season? Plus, is Marion the answer? He plays Pierce's position of SF.

Paul can play SG and Marion can play PF. Whichever one you want to move at any given time, you can go ahead and do that. That's not a disadvantage, that's an advantage. If we want to go big one nite, Paul plays the 2, Marion the 3, Al the 4, Perk the 5. If we want to run and play small, Tony Allen plays the 2, Paul the 3, Marion at 4 and Al at 5.

Someone at CelticsBlog had mentioned making a move for Marcus Camby instead. I like that better. Denver has to move him for Tax purposes, and he wouldn't cost you #5. Adding Camby for Theo's contract, plus a player (telfair/Allen?) & pick (minny's 1st?) would be great since it would bloster our front court, and allow us to draft at #5. Think of a 4/5 rotation of Jefferson/Camby/Perkins with Pierce, Wally, Rondo, West, #5 pick, etc... that's good enough and saves our future.

I wouldn't mind having Camby on our team...if Marion was already on it. We either go for broke and try and win with Pierce while he's still in his prime, or we have to absolutely break it apart and start from scratch.


If we don't make a move for a quality veteran star, and if we do make this #5 pick, and if we in turn do not trade Paul Pierce, it would even more firmly entrench us in the purgatory-like endless cycle of mediocrity we've been in for 2 decades.

If we continue to try and put band-aids on this team rather than either trying to create a legitimate championship team or just tearing the team apart, then within the next two years, we'll have been swept in the first round twice, missed out on two more lotteries, lost Al Jefferson to free agency, lured no free agents, missed Paul Pierce's prime and be stuck with a series of ever-developing youngsters who will all likely get the hell out of Boston the minute their rookie contract expires.

[Real World]

Teams trading guys for tax reasons are not going to take back Ratliff's contract. They aren't going to trade with the Celtics because we are over the cap and have to give equal salary back - putting them in the same tax spot with lessor talent. They need to trade to teams under the cap so they reduce salary.

Yes but most of these teams are not going to be over the cap this season necessarily. Some are planning a move now to save them in 2008. Remember, alot of these teams have to sign younger guys, and want to open up space for those signings (Think of the Raef deal we made).

BTW, Theo was an 80% insurance reimbursement this past season for the Celtics, and all signs point to him being an 80% insurance reimbursement for whomever it is that aquires him (Remember Rick Fox's last year was an ins. casualty for the C's). That means an instant savings $10 million (Theo will make $12+ mill in 2007).

Very attractive. ;)

[Real World]

Would Portland trade their #1 pick for Pierce or some combo involving Pierce?

I'd like to draft Oden and Brewer and rebuild the right way.

They wouldn't take Pierce and Jefferson for #1, let's put it that way.

[Real World]

The trade value of #5 is truly not that high at all. Look no further than the fact that the #7 yielded us Sebastian Telfair. Folks thinking that the #5 could somehow be flipped for a KG or Jermaine O'Neal need to curb their expectations. If we get Marion and all we have to give up is the #5 and Ratliff, it would be a huge steal on our end.

The trade value of a pick is relevant to the quality of the players that would be available. Is last years #1 pick as valuable as this years? Not in any way, shape, or form. This years draft is supposedly one of the strongest in recent memory, and as strong as the Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony year (2003). Teams want this years #5 pick because they know there is a potential allstar at the pick, whereas in most years, there is not.

Also, last years draft was not considered to be very strong, especially at the #7 spot. That trade involving #7 was about moving the disgusting contract of Raef LAfrentz. Remember that Ainge was considering taking Rajon Rondo at #7. Brandon Roy looks like a nice player on an aweful team, but don't be surprised if he has a similar career to Ron Mercur. We all remember him early, and on a bad team right?


Paul can play SG and Marion can play PF. Whichever one you want to move at any given time, you can go ahead and do that. That's not a disadvantage, that's an advantage. If we want to go big one nite, Paul plays the 2, Marion the 3, Al the 4, Perk the 5. If we want to run and play small, Tony Allen plays the 2, Paul the 3, Marion at 4 and Al at 5.

Marion's ability, and talent is not the issue. It's his cost, and where it takes you. Everything is relative, and if we pass up a Bosh/Wade type talent at #5 for 1-2 years of Marion and the 2nd round, is that worth it? I don't think so.

I wouldn't mind having Camby on our team...if Marion was already on it. We either go for broke and try and win with Pierce while he's still in his prime, or we have to absolutely break it apart and start from scratch.


If we don't make a move for a quality veteran star, and if we do make this #5 pick, and if we in turn do not trade Paul Pierce, it would even more firmly entrench us in the purgatory-like endless cycle of mediocrity we've been in for 2 decades.

If we continue to try and put band-aids on this team rather than either trying to create a legitimate championship team or just tearing the team apart, then within the next two years, we'll have been swept in the first round twice, missed out on two more lotteries, lost Al Jefferson to free agency, lured no free agents, missed Paul Pierce's prime and be stuck with a series of ever-developing youngsters who will all likely get the hell out of Boston the minute their rookie contract expires.

What are you going to win in the next two years with Marion? Can you win a championship in the two years that you have Marion? What happens after that? Another 20 years of mediocrity? Draft at #5, try to aquire a lesser vet like Rashard Lewis, or Marcus Camby, if you intend to keep Pierce and compete now, or look to move Paul Pierce. Do you think Chicago would take Pierce for Gordon & #9? Gordon and Thomas? How about moving him to Atlanta for some of their young players, and maybe their #3 pick? Atlanta has to win as their pick goes to Phoneix next year without protections. My position is simple really, don't include #5 for some of the names I am hearing.

[BradyManny2344]

Draft at #5, try to aquire a lesser vet like Rashard Lewis, or Marcus Camby, if you intend to keep Pierce and compete now, or look to move Paul Pierce.

To me, it's very simply one or the other. If we take the #5 pick, we better trade Paul Pierce. And if we do not trade Paul Pierce, then the #5 pick is essentially worthless to us.

Danny has to commit, C's fans will accept either option, but it's really one or the other.

The reason why I prefer trying to win with Paul is quite simple: I am nervous that players such as Al Jefferson, Gerald Green & whoever we draft at #5 will NOT remain on this Celtic team after their contract expires for the same reasons we can't attract ANY free agents, b/c NBA players see Boston and think this: the team has been mediocre for two decades, the nightlife is mediocre, and the weather sucks.

I think you're underestimating the HUGE risk involved in going young. It takes the entire length (at least) of a player's rookie contract for him to really develop and there is no guarantee we will retain their services.

[Real World]

To me, it's very simply one or the other. If we take the #5 pick, we better trade Paul Pierce. And if we do not trade Paul Pierce, then the #5 pick is essentially worthless to us.

Danny has to commit, C's fans will accept either option, but it's really one or the other.

The reason why I prefer trying to win with Paul is quite simple: I am nervous that players such as Al Jefferson, Gerald Green & whoever we draft at #5 will NOT remain on this Celtic team after their contract expires for the same reasons we can't attract ANY free agents, b/c NBA players see Boston and think this: the team has been mediocre for two decades, the nightlife is mediocre, and the weather sucks.

I think you're underestimating the HUGE risk involved in going young. It takes the entire length (at least) of a player's rookie contract for him to really develop and there is no guarantee we will retain their services.

Placating Pierce is not the C's goal, it's to win a championship. We traded a future all-star in joe Johnson to "win now" with a team that was flawed, and going nowhere. How'd that work out for us? Would you take that ill-fated effort in 2002, or would you rather have Joe Johnson for the last 4-5 years? Like I said, everything is relative. You can draft at #5, and still aquire a player that makes you better this year, both via that spot, and a trade. There is talk in Utah that Kilirenko and his contract are available. He would not cost you #5 (nor do I think Lewis would, unless DA is dumb), and would cost you Wally +, or Theo +. The problem is taking on 4 years and $63 million. To me, losing #5 for fools gold is a very bad move. I'd look to at a less costly vet, and draft at #5. This would solve all problems as it would make us more competitive now, and would allow us some time to break in our pick. Don't forget that this team won 24 games, but was 2-20 (close to that) in the games Pierce missed, and Wally/Allen missed virtually the whole season. They should be able to compete for the playoffs at least, as constituted.

[BradyManny2344]

Placating Pierce is not the C's goal, it's to win a championship.

I don't think Ainge is worried about placating Paul at all, if he thinks the team's future is better served by shipping Paul, I doubt he'd hesitate.

We traded a future all-star in joe Johnson to "win now" with a team that was flawed, and going nowhere. How'd that work out for us? Would you take that ill-fated effort in 2002, or would you rather have Joe Johnson for the last 4-5 years?

It was a really, really stupid trade, and so was the Chauncey Billups trade, particularly considering Paul was still young back then and there was plenty of time for patience, only Pitino didn't have it.

The difference now is that Paul Pierce probably only has 3-4 years of his prime left, so the question is, do you start the rebuilding process now, or take one last effort with the franchise player you DO currently have - and if you fail, rebuild for real 3-4 years from now?

I think either work, but we have to commit to one or the other.

Me, I'd rather spend the next 3-4 years giving it a go since players like Paul Pierce are not acquired lightly, and we could be waiting another dozen years for a franchise player like him. Is Big Al it? Is Gerald Green it? If they are good enough to be that guy, it won't be for 3 years or so anyway and we don't even know if we can resign them at that point.

Safer bet is to try and win with Paul and blow it up in 3-4 years if you fail. Thanks to the F-ing ping pong balls, if we trade Paul, there's just no end in sight in terms of the mediocre cycle. It's all down to luck, which so far, we've had none of.

[Real World]

The Celtics will not win a championship, with Paul Pierce on the roster, in the next 3-4 years.

[BradyManny2344]

The Celtics will not win a championship, with Paul Pierce on the roster, in the next 3-4 years.

I'd say it's "unlikely" they would win a championship in the next 3-4 years with Paul Pierce, but it beats the "impossible" over the 3-4 and the "almost impossible" from there forward.

In short, would you rather be "fu*ked" or "extremely fu*ked". Those are the C's options right now since they got screwed in the lottery.

[BelichickFan]

The Celtics will not win a championship, with Paul Pierce on the roster, in the next 3-4 years.
Things can change very quickly in basketball.

Another rumor from Chad Ford is :

"The talk here in Italy is that the Warriors are trying to move Jason Richardson and the No. 16 pick to move up higher into the draft to grab Yi Jianlian. Their targeted trade partners appear to be the Grizzlies (for Stromile Swift, Damon Stoudamire and the No. 4 pick), the Celtics (for Theo Ratliff and the No. 5) and the Bobcats."

[GJAJ15]

Things can change very quickly in basketball.

Another rumor from Chad Ford is :

"The talk here in Italy is that the Warriors are trying to move Jason Richardson and the No. 16 pick to move up higher into the draft to grab Yi Jianlian. Their targeted trade partners appear to be the Grizzlies (for Stromile Swift, Damon Stoudamire and the No. 4 pick), the Celtics (for Theo Ratliff and the No. 5) and the Bobcats."


Not sure how Richardson will fit in here, looks like a #2 or #3, good scorer, plays tough.. but does this move make this team that much better?? Said before think you have to blow the whole thing up, build around Jefferson and crew.

[patsfan55]

Things can change very quickly in basketball.

Another rumor from Chad Ford is :

"The talk here in Italy is that the Warriors are trying to move Jason Richardson and the No. 16 pick to move up higher into the draft to grab Yi Jianlian. Their targeted trade partners appear to be the Grizzlies (for Stromile Swift, Damon Stoudamire and the No. 4 pick), the Celtics (for Theo Ratliff and the No. 5) and the Bobcats."

i love jrich, and thats a great trade
but, we aready have paul, tony allen, gerald, and wally at the 2/3
jrich is like a rich mans tony/gerald

[BradyManny2344]

i love jrich, and thats a great trade
but, we aready have paul, tony allen, gerald, and wally at the 2/3
jrich is like a rich mans tony/gerald

While J Rich would be a huge upgrade over Wally, it doesn't get us any closer to being competitive.

If they really are going to build around Pierce, I wouldn't hesitate to use either our 08 first rounder or the one (I think) we're getting from the T-Wolves in 08 or 09.

I know folks will be quick to point out that Pierce only has 3-4 years left of his prime and that the same goes for Marion, KG, or whoever.

I'd be just as quick to point out Al Jefferson only has 2 seasons left on his contract, and that while he might be good for another decade+, there's decent chances he's doing it in another uniform.

[Real World]

I'd say it's "unlikely" they would win a championship in the next 3-4 years with Paul Pierce, but it beats the "impossible" over the 3-4 and the "almost impossible" from there forward.

In short, would you rather be "fu*ked" or "extremely fu*ked". Those are the C's options right now since they got screwed in the lottery.

I'd rather be extremely fukced over the next 3 years and kick azz for the 6-8 years after, by trading Pierce, drafting at #5, and having a stud team with all the talent we'd be getting.

[Real World]

i love jrich, and thats a great trade
but, we aready have paul, tony allen, gerald, and wally at the 2/3
jrich is like a rich mans tony/gerald

That trade is aweful. Richardson is coming off a couple of injury plagued seasons, and is not the player he once was. Plus, I think he still has some serious money on his deal. He can't play defense mind you, and is terrible value for this years #5.

[Real World]

While J Rich would be a huge upgrade over Wally, it doesn't get us any closer to being competitive.

If they really are going to build around Pierce, I wouldn't hesitate to use either our 08 first rounder or the one (I think) we're getting from the T-Wolves in 08 or 09.

I know folks will be quick to point out that Pierce only has 3-4 years left of his prime and that the same goes for Marion, KG, or whoever.

I'd be just as quick to point out Al Jefferson only has 2 seasons left on his contract, and that while he might be good for another decade+, there's decent chances he's doing it in another uniform.

Yeah but the way the cap is set up in the NBA, the C's can offer Jefferson much more money, and an extra year on a deal, whereas other teams couldn't. Most players don't leave their respective teams, and if they do, it's because they are not franchise types, and it comes via a sign and trade. Phoenix missed nothing from Johnson, and got 2 firsts, and Boris Diaw in return. Next years Atlanta pick is unprotected.

[GJAJ15]

The newest rumor is Garnett, for #5, Jefferson and a few more... don't like this as this would lead to a playoff team, not a championship team.. he and pierce are getting too old.

[scout]

The newest rumor is Garnett, for #5, Jefferson and a few more... don't like this as this would lead to a playoff team, not a championship team.. he and pierce are getting too old.

That trade has my head spinning. Why would you trade away a player who will be better then Garnett in two years (Garnett may be out of the league or with another team). Some people are salivating over Pierce and Garnett, so what. Does that mean the Celts will raise an Eastern Conference Championship Banner? That team does not beat the Spurs or the Suns. Add the right draftee, or two (32) to this squad and with luck this team wins the Eastern Conf., but more importantly, will get a lot better by not trading.

[BradyManny2344]

Yeah but the way the cap is set up in the NBA, the C's can offer Jefferson much more money, and an extra year on a deal, whereas other teams couldn't. Most players don't leave their respective teams, and if they do, it's because they are not franchise types, and it comes via a sign and trade. Phoenix missed nothing from Johnson, and got 2 firsts, and Boris Diaw in return. Next years Atlanta pick is unprotected.

If you could guarantee me that Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Rajon Rondo, the #5 pick we're about to make, and the ensuing number one picks in 08, will all be on this team in 5-8 years, I would trade Paul Pierce for a bag of potato chips (well, and some expensive but expiring contract, of course), and PP is one of my favorite players in the league.

But I don't think you can be sure of that. Ainge himself has gone on record saying he doesn't think he'll be able to retain all these guys. It's not just money or years, Boston is not a popular place for NBA players. If he really thinks they can retain the key players - Jefferson, Green, Rondo, whoever we draft at 5, then I'd agree with you and say blow it up ASAP.

[scout]

If you could guarantee me that Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Rajon Rondo, the #5 pick we're about to make, and the ensuing number one picks in 08, will all be on this team in 5-8 years, I would trade Paul Pierce for a bag of potato chips (well, and some expensive but expiring contract, of course), and PP is one of my favorite players in the league.

But I don't think you can be sure of that. Ainge himself has gone on record saying he doesn't think he'll be able to retain all these guys. It's not just money or years, Boston is not a popular place for NBA players. If he really thinks they can retain the key players - Jefferson, Green, Rondo, whoever we draft at 5, then I'd agree with you and say blow it up ASAP.

Boston is not a popular place for NBA players? I've heard that before and it is garbage. New England is not a popular place for NFL players. Boston is not popular place for MLB players. Boston is not a popular place for corporate people. Boston is a great city. What determines if an individual wants to work in an environment is what they get out of the situation and what type of organization in which they will work. It was not too long ago that the Patriots could not get players to come here. Ditto for the Red Sox, who sometimes still have that problem. The Celtics are an up and coming team. One huge factor for a player to come here is the salary cap (quite different then any other sport). Maybe players didn't want to play for Pitino, but that was yesterday.

[patsfan55]

That trade has my head spinning. Why would you trade away a player who will be better then Garnett in two years (Garnett may be out of the league or with another team). Some people are salivating over Pierce and Garnett, so what. Does that mean the Celts will raise an Eastern Conference Championship Banner? That team does not beat the Spurs or the Suns. Add the right draftee, or two (32) to this squad and with luck this team wins the Eastern Conf., but more importantly, will get a lot better by not trading.

id LOVE garnett in a c's uni
however, i really dont wanna give up big al
if there was a way we could do somthin like this: #5, ratliff, gerald, gomes/delonte, future first rounder
id do it

[BradyManny2344]

Boston is not a popular place for NBA players? I've heard that before and it is garbage....It was not too long ago that the Patriots could not get players to come here.

Winning [and money] makes people forget everything else. But right now, the C's aren't winning, and it's not even on their radar screen.

So the other factors - national exposure, weather, nightlife (even a player that likes it here, PP, complains about how early the city shuts down), relevance - are even more important.

I love Boston, I've lived around or in it my entire life, but you gotta be kidding me if you think an NBA player had a chance to play either here, LA, Phoenix, Miami or just about another half dozen cities with one or multiple of the following: a better team, better nightlife, better weather, better national exposure, etc. that they'd pick Boston.

[scout]

Winning [and money] makes people forget everything else. But right now, the C's aren't winning, and it's not even on their radar screen.

So the other factors - national exposure, weather, nightlife (even a player that likes it here, PP, complains about how early the city shuts down), relevance - are even more important.

I love Boston, I've lived around or in it my entire life, but you gotta be kidding me if you think an NBA player had a chance to play either here, LA, Phoenix, Miami or just about another half dozen cities with one or multiple of the following: a better team, better nightlife, better weather, better national exposure, etc. that they'd pick Boston.
So many people opting for Miami, I almost forgot. Ever live there?
Please name all the 'other' cities who have better exposure then Boston. New York would be one, with a great night life. Players are doing everything they can to play for the Knicks, right? Chicago will have great exposure with the media, and the weather is great too ? No thank you for the Phoenix weather. Nash went there, but he also had started out there. Los Angelos is king, uh well, I mean if you like the Lakers, not the Clippers who reside in the same location. It is about winning and money, something that has escaped the Celtics of late. Thomas could have made more money and a nicer climate in San Fran, but chose the Patriots, who happen to reside in New England. Unless your going to say NFL players differ from NBA players.

[BradyManny2344]

So many people opting for Miami, I almost forgot. Ever live there?
Please name all the 'other' cities who have better exposure then Boston. New York would be one, with a great night life. Players are doing everything they can to play for the Knicks, right? Chicago will have great exposure with the media, and the weather is great too ? No thank you for the Phoenix weather. Nash went there, but he also had started out there. Los Angelos is king, uh well, I mean if you like the Lakers, not the Clippers who reside in the same location. It is about winning and money, something that has escaped the Celtics of late. Thomas could have made more money and a nicer climate in San Fran, but chose the Patriots, who happen to reside in New England. Unless your going to say NFL players differ from NBA players.

Relax, man, I already said winning trumps all and that I personally love Boston.

Adalius Thomas came to the Pats to win.

Since the C's aren't winning, they'd need some of the other things that players consider (money & location), and they're lacking in it.

All I'm asking you for is one good reason why an NBA free agent would want to come to Boston right now, or why any of our young [potential] stars have compelling reasons to stay here (other than the contract related ones RealWorld laid out).

[scout]

Relax, man, I already said winning trumps all and that I personally love Boston.

Adalius Thomas came to the Pats to win.

Since the C's aren't winning, they'd need some of the other things that players consider (money & location), and they're lacking in it.

All I'm asking you for is one good reason why an NBA free agent would want to come to Boston right now, or why any of our young [potential] stars have compelling reasons to stay here (other than the contract related ones RealWorld laid out).

You still have a problem with Boston as a location, as you've mentioned in this post and others. I don't get it. NBA cities that are better then Boston?
Toronto
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Detroit
Cleveland
Indiana
Milwaukee
Washington
Utah
Minnesota
Houston
Memphis
New Orleans/Oklahoma
That is almost half of the NBA teams, and I've got to tell you I would not want to live in most of those places and certainly not better cities then Boston. New York is just a cold as Boston and is in worse shape as a franchise. Chicago is very comparable to Boston as that is where I live. They are on the verge of being a very good team. So that leaves a number of Southern and West Coast teams. Is that where all the free agents sign?

[BradyManny2344]

You still have a problem with Boston as a location, as you've mentioned in this post and others. I don't get it. NBA cities that are better then Boston?
Toronto
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Detroit
Cleveland
Indiana
Milwaukee
Washington
Utah
Minnesota
Houston
Memphis
New Orleans/Oklahoma
That is almost half of the NBA teams, and I've got to tell you I would not want to live in most of those places and certainly not better cities then Boston.

I agree with all of the above. That puts Boston slightly above middle of the pack. I'm simply saying because they are losing right now, in order to attract free agents, they'd have to have something else to offer.

Basically, I'm not even really arguing with you - I agree FAs go where the $$ is, and go where the prospect of success is. And in general, NBA free agency isn't that lively to begin with. Which is why you Ainge doesn't look at it as a useful way of getting better.

[TomBrady'sGoat]

That trade has my head spinning. Why would you trade away a player who will be better then Garnett in two years (Garnett may be out of the league or with another team). Some people are salivating over Pierce and Garnett, so what. Does that mean the Celts will raise an Eastern Conference Championship Banner? That team does not beat the Spurs or the Suns. Add the right draftee, or two (32) to this squad and with luck this team wins the Eastern Conf., but more importantly, will get a lot better by not trading.

yeah, I wouldn't trade Jefferson for one year of KG straight up. The fact that the rumor involves the #5 and Green on top of Jefferson is just downright silly.

The only way you trade Al is for Kobe (I'm not saying I want to root for Kobe, but he's the kind of player no one is untouchable for) or a PG.

If the Celts can't make a trade to get Pierce some help they have to explore trading him while he has a lot of value. I'm not talking about one of those 50-cent-on-the-dollar trades to get rid of him, but seeing if anyone is willing to offer value for him.

[BradyManny2344]

yeah, I wouldn't trade Jefferson for one year of KG straight up. The fact that the rumor involves the #5 and Green on top of Jefferson is just downright silly.

I'm completely dismissing the rumors myself. I'm sure we're in contact, but I bet when Al Jefferson's name comes up Ainge probably says "we're done."

Big Al is off limits right now. He's already good in the short term, so whether their plans are to win now or win in the future, he's in them.

[BradyManny2344]

You still have a problem with Boston as a location, as you've mentioned in this post and others. I don't get it. NBA cities that are better then Boston?

FYI, reading hoopshype, it looks like neither Garnett or Marion would be willing to extend their stay in Boston past one year...it goes beyond winning, these guys just clearly don't want to play here.

Which is a shame, b/c both of them - depending upon what we give up - would make us contenders in the East.

[scout]

FYI, reading hoopshype, it looks like neither Garnett or Marion would be willing to extend their stay in Boston past one year...it goes beyond winning, these guys just clearly don't want to play here.

Which is a shame, b/c both of them - depending upon what we give up - would make us contenders in the East.
Yea right, and it had nothing to do with trying to get a bigger contract. It's about winning and making $.

[BradyManny2344]

Yea right, and it had nothing to do with trying to get a bigger contract. It's about winning and making $.

Get a bigger contract? KG would be really stupid to opt out of his $25 million option. Ditto Marion for his $18 mill. These guys aren't opting out - and they won't, especially if they go to a destination they are OK with playing in.

So it has nothing to do with money.

As for winning, both of those guys have to realize that if they are coupled with Paul Pierce, they are now one of the elite teams in the East. The West is just such a tougher road, so if getting to the playoffs and going deep is their concern, they are truly better off on a good team in the East than a good team in the West.

[Sean Pa Patriot]

I know the NBA is irrelevent, but I want to see Kevin Garnnet as a Celtic..

[scout]

Get a bigger contract? KG would be really stupid to opt out of his $25 million option. Ditto Marion for his $18 mill. These guys aren't opting out - and they won't, especially if they go to a destination they are OK with playing in.

So it has nothing to do with money.

As for winning, both of those guys have to realize that if they are coupled with Paul Pierce, they are now one of the elite teams in the East. The West is just such a tougher road, so if getting to the playoffs and going deep is their concern, they are truly better off on a good team in the East than a good team in the West.

Neither K.G. or Marion will become Celtics without extensions, thus, its about the money. K.G. never did say he wouldn't play for the Celtics, it was his agent. Evidently, you also think highly of Paul Pierce, maybe a little too high.

[scout]

I know the NBA is irrelevent, but I want to see Kevin Garnnet as a Celtic..

Not really. He is not worth the price. How many games did the Wolves win last year? So the Celtics are going to trade away all their assets for a guy that has already played his best games. The Celtics will win more games with the #5 and their core, then the Wolves next year if the Wolves have KG.