Kirwin's 3-4 Draft Perspective [merged]

[ayjackson]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10066679
enjoyed this article....of note is the draft board (ILB)

[BelichickFan]

Not so subtle reminder to keep Anthony Waters in mind, we have LB for this year (although we could use a little depth) but could afford a second day pick to wait on a guy with big time upside.

[PonyExpress]

Originally Posted by BelichickFan

Not so subtle reminder to keep Anthony Waters in mind, we have LB for this year (although we could use a little depth) but could afford a second day pick to wait on a guy with big time upside.

I know DaBruinz has been high on Waters for months. Bradley should definitely be on that list, and IMO DeOssie seems like a project pick who is being overrated due to name recognition. I haven't seen DeOssie play a down, but I have heard from multiple sources, including his own father, that Zak is not a physical player, relying more on keen intellect than brute force to position himself correctly. That's all fine, but an almost psychotic love of violence seems like a prerequisite for ILB in the NFL. Tim Shaw's experience at both ILB and DE seems to make him an ideal ILB prospect, not OLB as Kirwan writes. I'm beating a dead horse that many people have shot more than once, but I like Siler for ILB.

[Box_O_Rocks]

Interesting that all three ILB selections are perceived as run stuffers who struggle against the pass. A good read nontheless.

[Box_O_Rocks]

Originally Posted by PonyExpress

I know DaBruinz has been high on Waters for months. Bradley should definitely be on that list, and IMO DeOssie seems like a project pick who is being overrated due to name recognition. I haven't seen DeOssie play a down, but I have heard from multiple sources, including his own father, that Zak is not a physical player, relying more on keen intellect than brute force to position himself correctly. That's all fine, but an almost psychotic love of violence seems like a prerequisite for ILB in the NFL. Tim Shaw's experience at both ILB and DE seems to make him an ideal ILB prospect, not OLB as Kirwan writes. I'm beating a dead horse that many people have shot more than once, but I like Siler for ILB.

That's okay, if they are shooting the dead horse it keeps you out of the line of fire.

I love that Shaw has played and done well at mutiple positions, unfortunately, he's closer to 6'1" than 6'2", and 236 on a guy who looked slim in shorts doesn't inspire me to set aside my biases. He's the kind of kid I wish I could find a place to play.

I agree with you on Zach, when I read intellectual and not as physical I think second day project. I agree with Kirwin's OLB assessment, with his speed I think a place could be found on passing downs. I would hope some of the hitters on the team would inspire him, but for the moment he projects second day/situational & Special Teams player to me.

[captain stone]

Originally Posted by Box_O_Rocks

Interesting that all three ILB selections are perceived as run stuffers who struggle against the pass. A good read nontheless.

Also interesting that all 3 ILB selections are not named Willis, Posluszny, or Siler. What's Kirwan trying to say, if anything?

[Box_O_Rocks]

Originally Posted by captain stone

Also interesting that all 3 ILB selections are not named Willis, Posluszny, or Siler. What's Kirwan trying to say, if anything?

I'm hoping his use of a "number" of coaches and scouts allowed him to control for people trying to use his article to throw a monkey wrench into someone else's draft board. Since I never saw any of the three as good 3-4 fits, I'm hoping this is an accurate assessment from his panel.

Though we probably should check and see if PATSNUTMe needs therapy.

[sebman2112]

At least they seem to like Carriker, Spencer, Woodley, Harrell, Harris, Bishop, Shaw, and DeOssie. All players I like by the way, and have talked about. I still think Willis would be awsome behind NE's line with AD Vrabel, and Colvin playing next to him. I haven't been on Posluzny's jock so it is no surprise to me. The problem is that he is basically projecting ILB's in college who can play 3-4 ILB, but he doesn't project the DE's who can play ILB. Vrabel and Bruschi were both defensive ends.

[VJCPatriot]

Originally Posted by PonyExpress

That's all fine, but an almost psychotic love of violence seems like a prerequisite for ILB in the NFL. Tim Shaw's experience at both ILB and DE seems to make him an ideal ILB prospect, not OLB as Kirwan writes. I'm beating a dead horse that many people have shot more than once, but I like Siler for ILB.

Huh you need a psychotic love for violence to be an effective ILB? Give me a fundamentally sound player with a high motor any time over a mere psycho. Got to have skills too. Zak was a team leader at Brown and he has intangibles that will make him an asset at linebacker. Even if he doesn't meet your "psychotic love for violence" requirement I think he'll be a good one.

So please tell me how you measure this "psychotic love for violence" quotient and let me know how guys like Siler, Waters etc. compare in that quotient to current Patriots like Bruschi, AD, Vrabel, etc. I really would like to know how you arrived at this scientific measurement and if our current players stack up to your new requirement. Thanks!

[PonyExpress]

Originally Posted by VJCPatriot

Huh you need a psychotic love for violence to be an effective ILB? Give me a fundamentally sound player with a high motor any time over a mere psycho. Got to have skills too. Zak was a team leader at Brown and he has intangibles that will make him an asset at linebacker. Even if he doesn't meet your "psychotic love for violence" requirement I think he'll be a good one.

So please tell me how you measure this "psychotic love for violence" quotient and let me know how guys like Siler, Waters etc. compare in that quotient to current Patriots like Bruschi, AD, Vrabel, etc. I really would like to know how you arrived at this scientific measurement and if our current players stack up to your new requirement. Thanks!

The "almost psychotic love of violence" I refer to is uniquely between the lines and in no way refers to a player's behavior off-field. It takes a somewhat deranged individual to defeat blocks vs. 300 lb guards and blow up 220 lb rbs play after play, game after game, year after year. The ILB must love contact, embrace contact, live for the thrill of contact. This love of violence gives him an edge, and only with that edge can he take the field without fear, and dominate. All the great ILBs in history have exhibited this character trait... Nitschke, Huff, Butkus, Lambert, Singletary, Carson, Lewis, yes, Bruschi and Ted Johnson, too. In this draft Buster Davis has it, Willis has it, Siler has it for sure. Without it, they would be too terrified to do what has to be done at the NFL level. Unfortunately, at times elite ILBs carry this burden with them off the field and walk a dangerous line in the civilian world. BB recognizes that the ILB position requires unique and complex individuals. That is what drew him to talents such as Channing Crowder and Odell Thurman in their respective drafts, before passing on them, and why he expressed such admiration for Ernie Sims, another player who exhibits this trait in his on-field play. Your welcome (is there a middle finger icon?).