Now I know why the Patriots lost... [Archive] - New England Patriots Forums

3 to be 4

02-04-2007, 09:54 PM

Sorry for everyone that didn't watch the Postgame show.

But I thought Dungy was ridiculous.

He actually said this: "I'm not only proud that Lovie Smith and I were the first two African-Americans to coach in the Super Bowl, but that we were Christian coaches, and God lead us on this journey and blessed us."

WTF? What does that make the other coaches of other religions? (Nationality has nothing to do with this) I mean, that podium is totally inappropriate for that kind of talk. Does he have any non-Christians on his team? I'm OK with people that say God helped us win this football game, or whatever, it's just a cliche. But Tony Dungy takes it too far. How does he know what's in the heart of the other coaches?

exactly when did Dungy say anything about the other coaches? At no time did he say "God wanted us to win" or "God made us win". Thats something other people, who dont understand what giving thanks to your God in the good times or the bad, which Dungy does, read into it for themselves.

Dungy, Smith, Kurt Warner, Shaun alexander, Herm Edwards. They will give God the glory whether they win or they lose.

It takes nothing from you and it is no comment or reflection on what anyone else believes. He has a right to say it for himself without worrying about P.C.

PatsMyBoyz!

02-04-2007, 09:55 PM

3 to be 4

02-04-2007, 09:58 PM

I heard that speech too. I agree,that comment was inappropriate and is it even accurate? Weird.

if he actually said they were the first Christian coaches that would be a mistake. But Im not sure he said that. I didnt hear that and would have to go look at the tape again. I believe he only said first two african-american coaches and Christian coaches, not first Christian coaches.
Tom Landry and Dan Reeves come to mind immediatlely

PatsMyBoyz!

02-04-2007, 10:03 PM

if he actually said they were the first Christian coaches that would be a mistake. But Im not sure he said that. I didnt hear that and would have to go look at the tape again. I believe he only said first two african-american coaches and Christian coaches, not first Christian coaches.
Tom Landry and Dan Reeves come to mind immediatlely

Many Christian coaches have won-actually I never bothered to wonder about any coach's religion so I couldn't even name them. I didn't tape it-he must have said something else besides that. Oh well.

3 to be 4

02-04-2007, 10:05 PM

Raymond Berry was a very devout Christian.

Vince Lombardi, a very, very devout Catholic, went to church every day of the week, to morning mass.

like I said, I dont believe Dungy said it. He said ..."Not only the first african-american coaches but Christian coaches as well"

if i heard it wrong and he did say it im sure it was a mistake in how he said it.

either way, in thanking your God, it is not saying "God wanted us to win", its just properly giving your Lord his due. And the key is that people like Dungy do it whether he wins or loses.

upstater1

02-04-2007, 10:06 PM

exactly when did Dungy say anything about the other coaches?

On the podium right after the game he said that he and Lovie were the first Christians. Bizarre. And yes, he said that God lead them to the culmination of THIS journey. What do you think THIS refers to? It refers to winning? Irsay led off and said the same thing? Sounds like yo didn't watch it.

Patjew

02-04-2007, 10:06 PM

BTW, who ARE the Pats Jewish coaches. Belichick could be. That is a Jewish sounding name, I believe.

Maybe Peesberg?

Scarnechiastein?

And, lets not forget Pepper Johnsonovitz.

This,BTW, IS a tongue in cheek post..... just so a few off you dont go jumping..."there's nem again, starting crap." :D

Belichick ain't no Jew.

Even though it's on way way way way WAY different scales, Bob Kraft and I are each Jews running businesses. And we each know that you do NOT hire Jews to work the tough jobs in the trenches. Lawyers, accountants, agents, etc: no problem. Guys on the front line: NFW.

Was this post tongue in cheek? I have no idea.

ghostPatsfan

02-04-2007, 10:10 PM

The Jesus-freaks just take this stuff so far. It isn't enough that they have faith and keep it themselves. They have to just spew it and spew it and spew it....

I can't wait until somebody wins something one time and says, "First of all, I'd like to say that there is no God and religion had nothing to do with our victory today. It's all about the men and women who worked hard to see this goal to its conclusion." It'd be no different than what the religious nuts do.

mgteich

02-04-2007, 10:10 PM

You have reported what Dungy actually said.

like I said, I dont believe Dungy said it. He said ..."Not only the first african-american coaches but Christian coaches as well"

if i heard it wrong and he did say it im sure it was a mistake in how he said it.

either way, in thanking your God, it is not saying "God wanted us to win", its just properly giving your Lord his due. And the key is that people like Dungy do it whether he wins or loses.

NEPat

02-04-2007, 10:10 PM

And the key is that people like Dungy do it whether he wins or loses.

Right, I think the way Dungy is, he's saying it sincerely and from his heart, and not trying to annoy people. He just always talks like that, and there was a lot of it this week with both he and Lovie.

Besides after everything the guy has been through, hey, if he wants to talk about how God was with the Colts or whatever, I don't mind.

Now if you want to talk about Irsay going on about how God is the number one Colts fan, go right ahead :D

mgteich

02-04-2007, 10:12 PM

Just take out the wqord "first" and you ahve what Dungy actually said. He is quite aware that there have been many Christian coaches before him.

Sorry for everyone that didn't watch the Postgame show.

But I thought Dungy was ridiculous.

He actually said this: "I'm not only proud that Lovie Smith and I were the first two African-Americans to coach in the Super Bowl, but that we were the first Christian coaches, and God lead us on this journey and blessed us."

WTF? What does that make the other coaches of other religions? (Nationality has nothing to do with this) I mean, that podium is totally inappropriate for that kind of talk. Does he have any non-Christians on his team? I'm OK with people that say God helped us win this football game, or whatever, it's just a cliche. But Tony Dungy takes it too far. How does he know what's in the heart of the other coaches?

mgteich

02-04-2007, 10:14 PM

You can judge. It was certainly offensive, tongue in cheek or not.

I hope that this post is tongue in cheek, and not for real.

Seymour93

02-04-2007, 10:14 PM

Just take out the wqord "first" and you ahve what Dungy actually said. He is quite aware that there have been many Christian coaches before him.

Yeah so why did he say it? Just to be a pompous ass? Do other non-Christian coaches not deserve it or something?

3 to be 4

02-04-2007, 10:15 PM

On the podium right after the game he said that he and Lovie were the first Christians. Bizarre. And yes, he said that God lead them to the culmination of THIS journey. What do you think THIS refers to? It refers to winning? Irsay led off and said the same thing? Sounds like yo didn't watch it.

i'll have to watch the tape again, i dont think he said it that way, that they were the first. and if he did, it was a mistake.

as for the second part, i wasnt going to get into that on the football board with you but you brought it up. win or lose, for a Christian, God is in control. it doesnt mean God wants the Christian to win,. If that was the case, as they say, why play the game?

its an illogical leap to say just because one gives the Lord credit for everything, that hes saying "God wants our side to win"
Dungy had as much faith in God when his son died or when he lost past playoff games. It is only a slight towards other faiths if you want it to be.

DegeneratePatsFan

02-04-2007, 10:16 PM

I'm giggling at the thought of a winning QB or coach hoisting the Lombardi trophy and shouting, "All praise to Satan!" Then watching Jim Nantz's reaction.:D

BelichickFan

02-04-2007, 10:19 PM

Yeah so why did he say it? Just to be a pompass ass? Do other non-Christian coaches not deserve it or something?
I guess it makes him feel superior or something.

PatsMyBoyz!

02-04-2007, 10:19 PM

I'm sure Dungy didn't mean anything negative by it-at least I hope not. He doesn't seem the type to intentionally malign like that.Irsay....well.....:bricks:

3 to be 4

02-04-2007, 10:20 PM

Yeah so why did he say it? Just to be a pompous ass? Do other non-Christian coaches not deserve it or something?

He said it give the credit to his God, which he would have done in defeat as well.
What does that have to do with the non-Christian coaches? They are free to believe as they wish as well.

You have the choice to read more into it and be offended by it if you want to be.

PatsMyBoyz!

02-04-2007, 10:22 PM

I'm giggling at the thought of a winning QB or coach hoisting the Lombardi trophy and shouting, "All praise to Satan!" Then watching Jim Nantz's reaction.:D

Fitzy (the video guy) called him "Satan Manning" :rofl:

upstater1

02-04-2007, 10:23 PM

You can judge. It was certainly offensive, tongue in cheek or not.

Oh, please, come on. What was offensive? This is the third time I've heard Dungy utter the "first" Christian coaches line.

I teach English for a living, and this is what you call a parallel construction: We are the first African American and Christian coaches.

I forgive Dungy only if he was speaking English improperly, otherwise mine is the proper grammatical understanding of that sentence.

upstater1

02-04-2007, 10:25 PM

i'll have to watch the tape again, i dont think he said it that way, that they were the first. and if he did, it was a mistake.

as for the second part, i wasnt going to get into that on the football board with you but you brought it up. win or lose, for a Christian, God is in control. it doesnt mean God wants the Christian to win,. If that was the case, as they say, why play the game?

its an illogical leap to say just because one gives the Lord credit for everything, that hes saying "God wants our side to win"
Dungy had as much faith in God when his son died or when he lost past playoff games. It is only a slight towards other faiths if you want it to be.

Why is it important that they were Christian coaches? That's all I'm asking. Why did he emphasize that? Wh=ould it have been less important if Jewish coaches had won?

As for his son, I don't want to get into that. That's a story to be written later, and it isn't proper on this Sports board. But I have read stuff which gives me pause.

upstater1

02-04-2007, 10:26 PM

I'm sure Dungy didn't mean anything negative by it-at least I hope not. He doesn't seem the type to intentionally malign like that.Irsay....well.....:bricks:

Well, people keep saying that, but I've heard him repeat the phrase multiple times in the last few weeks.

3 to be 4

02-04-2007, 10:29 PM

Why is it important that they were Christian coaches? That's all I'm asking. Why did he emphasize that? Wh=ould it have been less important if Jewish coaches had won?

As for his son, I don't want to get into that. That's a story to be written later, and it isn't proper on this Sports board. But I have read stuff which gives me pause.

why is it important? Because it is the most important thing in his life. More than winning a Super Bowl.
Its not a swipe at somebody else that he gives the credit to his God, win or lose.

as far as your last point, since you put it out there please be so kind as to find another forum here that you can tell us what you are referring to.

mgteich

02-04-2007, 10:35 PM

This is what you said, English teacher. If you said it at school, you'd be fired.
It make absolutely no difference that it was said as a joke. Offensive jokes ar NOT Ok.

"If the Patriots want to get to the next level, they have to fire their Jewish coaches.

The Bears were done before they walked on the field: Mushin Muhammad? Are you kidding me? A turbanhead touching the Lombardi trophy? God would barf if he saw that?"

Personally, I strongly beleive in free speech. I think that it fine for you to embarrass yourself; but it is indeed offensive to me. And, if you understand the lesson given you by your HR department, you will understand that offense is in the eye of the beholder.

To be clear, I am fine with you being offensive. People are what they are.

That you would equate your racism with Dungy's comments, implying that his faith is as important to him as is race, this just poor judgement on your part.

Oh, please, come on. What was offensive? This is the third time I've heard Dungy utter the "first" Christian coaches line.

I teach English for a living, and this is what you call a parallel construction: We are the first African American and Christian coaches.

I forgive Dungy only if he was speaking English improperly, otherwise mine is the proper grammatical understanding of that sentence.

upstater1

02-04-2007, 10:42 PM

why is it important? Because it is the most important thing in his life. More than winning a Super Bowl.
Its not a swipe at somebody else that he gives the credit to his God, win or lose.

as far as your last point, since you put it out there please be so kind as to find another forum here that you can tell us what you are referring to.

As I said, I have no problem with him giving credit to God, or even saying join me in prayer, or anything else that's just typical. I specifically had a problem that, when Nantz asked him about social history, he highlighted the fact that he and Lovie were Christian coaches. This wasn't giving credit to God. This was in response to the question: why is your victory important in American social history. His answer: because I'm a Christian coach.

Anyone who saw his son's MySpace page and also understands Dungy's deeply held religious attitudes toward certain modern and contemporary lifestyles can probably figure out what I'm referring to.

Johnny Mac

02-04-2007, 10:45 PM

Why is it important that they were Christian coaches? That's all I'm asking.
Because they did it "the Lord's way." Everyone else does it the heathen way.

upstater1

02-04-2007, 10:46 PM

This is what you said, English teacher. If you said it at school, you'd be fired.
It make absolutely no difference that it was said as a joke. Offensive jokes ar NOT Ok.

"If the Patriots want to get to the next level, they have to fire their Jewish coaches.

The Bears were done before they walked on the field: Mushin Muhammad? Are you kidding me? A turbanhead touching the Lombardi trophy? God would barf if he saw that?"

Personally, I strongly beleive in free speech. I think that it fine for you to embarrass yourself; but it is indeed offensive to me. And, if you understand the lesson given you by your HR department, you will understand that offense is in the eye of the beholder.

To be clear, I am fine with you being offensive. People are what they are.

That you would equate your racism with Dungy's comments, implying that his faith is as important to him as is race, this just poor judgement on your part.

Calm down, mgteich. I was being sarcastic. I don't even know what your argument is. I'm implying that his faith is as important to him as race? Wha? Maybe but I don't even know how and what the significance is. What the hell does that mean?

For the record, this wasn't a colorful joke. I was being facetious, and I've said a lot worse to my students, who are comfortable with my teaching methods, and also bright enough to understand sarcasm and facetious speech when they hear it, like a lot of people on this thread. No, I don't like racist jokes either, and this clearly wasn't one, so get off my back and maybe kick your dog instead.

3 to be 4

02-04-2007, 10:48 PM

As I said, I have no problem with him giving credit to God, or even saying join me in prayer, or anything else that's just typical. I specifically had a problem that, when Nantz asked him about social history, he highlighted the fact that he and Lovie were Christian coaches. This wasn't giving credit to God. This was in response to the question: why is your victory important in American social history. His answer: because I'm a Christian coach.

Anyone who saw his son's MySpace page and also understands Dungy's deeply held religious attitudes toward certain modern and contemporary lifestyles can probably figure out what I'm referring to.

i thought he said because they were the first african-american coaches and christian coaches. You keep changing the quote.

so you are saying it was his father being a Christian which led to his killing himself?

I sensing an agenda here.

groundgame

02-04-2007, 11:06 PM

They lost not due to Reche Caldwell dropping a 2nd down pass that ended up with the Pats settling for a late 4th qtr. FG in a 28-28 game. With 28 seconds left and down 38-34, the Pats has advanced to the IND 45 with 1 timeout remaining. We were defeated by a great anticipation by Colt DB Robt. Sanders cutting in front of Troy Brown over the middle for an INT on a route that over the years to Troy has produced gold. Congratulations Colts.

upstater1

02-04-2007, 11:08 PM

i thought he said because they were the first african-american coaches and christian coaches. You keep changing the quote.

so you are saying it was his father being a Christian which led to his killing himself?

I sensing an agenda here.

I didn't change any quote. You see me change the quote somewhere? I simply stated a fact. He responded to the question, why is you victory socially significant?, by pointing to the fact that he and Lovie were Christian coaches. He said a couple other things too, obviously. The fact that I didn't type in everything else he said doesn't mean I'm misquoting him.

And no, I didn't say or imply that Dungy's religion led to his son's death. I don't believe that. Read what I wrote. If you knew of the MySpace page and read (there was a thread on it on this message board) then maybe you understand. And for the record I'm a Christian so there is no agenda.

mgteich

02-04-2007, 11:14 PM

I am not surprised that you haven't a clue that your reference to Muslims as "turbanheads" could get you fired, and is as racist as using the "n" word in reference to African-Americans. It matters not whether you are being facetious or not.

Calm down, mgteich. I was being sarcastic. I don't even know what your argument is. I'm implying that his faith is as important to him as race? Wha? Maybe but I don't even know how and what the significance is. What the hell does that mean?

For the record, this wasn't a colorful joke. I was being facetious, and I've said a lot worse to my students, who are comfortable with my teaching methods, and also bright enough to understand sarcasm and facetious speech when they hear it, like a lot of people on this thread. No, I don't like racist jokes either, and this clearly wasn't one, so get off my back and maybe kick your dog instead.

Tunescribe

02-04-2007, 11:22 PM

Ok, then explain this. Check out this pic of BB and his dad. Now, take a close look at dad's nose. The nose knows.
:D

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/don_banks/04/29/pats.minicamp/t1_belichick.jpg

You get away with this kind of stuff because you're Jewish.

Actually, that's just an old man's nose.

The Gr8est

02-04-2007, 11:32 PM

Because they did it "the Lord's way." Everyone else does it the heathen way.

Then how do they explain Polian being part of the victory?:eek:

upstater1

02-04-2007, 11:45 PM

I am not surprised that you haven't a clue that your reference to Muslims as "turbanheads" could get you fired, and is as racist as using the "n" word in reference to African-Americans. It matters not whether you are being facetious or not.

You don't know me. And apparently, you have a hard time understanding what the word facetious means. But if you insist I'll spell it out for you. I was mocking Tony Dungy by spelling out what Dungy was implying tonight. Man, you really need to go to bed.

As I said, I've said much worse, I still have my job, so do my colleagues who always say much worse than that, simply because students understand a little thing called "context." Maybe you should try to expand your horizons.

Patjew

02-05-2007, 12:07 AM

You don't know me. And apparently, you have a hard time understanding what the word facetious means. But if you insist I'll spell it out for you. I was mocking Tony Dungy by spelling out what Dungy was implying tonight. Man, you really need to go to bed.

As I said, I've said much worse, I still have my job, so do my colleagues who always say much worse than that, simply because students understand a little thing called "context." Maybe you should try to expand your horizons.

You lost me with "turbanhead". I get the rest but am not sure why you broke out that term. Some expressions, used facetiously or not, are just plain offensive. You can call me a "kike" and rationalize it as facetious- that still doesn't make it right or not offensive. Anyway, "turbanhead" isn't even an apt insult toward a Muslim. There's a difference between a Mulsim and an Arab, and not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs.

Maybe you should try to expand your horizons and realize that the meaning of the written word is much more easily miscontrued than that of the spoken word.

upstater1

02-05-2007, 12:18 AM

You lost me with "turbanhead". I get the rest but am not sure why you broke out that term. Some expressions, used facetiously or not, are just plain offensive. You can call me a "kike" and rationalize it as facetious- that still doesn't make it right or not offensive. Anyway, "turbanhead" isn't even an apt insult toward a Muslim. There's a difference between a Mulsim and an Arab, and not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs.

Maybe you should try to expand your horizons and realize that the meaning of the written word is much more easily miscontrued than that of the spoken word.

I don't have to be apt. I was writing in the guise of someone who wouldn't know the difference. Whereas I was born in the Levant, that's my heritage. And no, i'm not Jewish.

Patjew

02-05-2007, 12:30 AM

I don't have to be apt. I was writing in the guise of someone who wouldn't know the difference. Whereas I was born in the Levant, that's my heritage.

Of course you don't HAVE to be apt. It's been know to help, though. Anyway, sweet guise.

And no, i'm not Jewish.

Believe me, I knew that a long time ago.

upstater1

02-05-2007, 12:45 AM

Of course you don't HAVE to be apt. It's been know to help, though. Anyway, sweet guise.

Believe me, I knew that a long time ago.

Long time? 10 minutes is a long time?

As for being apt, it ruins a gag. If you're on the ball, then you can't be the freak you're trying to be, and Tony Dungy certainly is a freak. I don't know how to be him and sane and from the Middle East at the same time. Therefore, this thread.

Patjew

02-05-2007, 01:10 AM

Long time? 10 minutes is a long time?

I knew from your name. No Jews live upstate! In any state!

As for being apt, it ruins a gag. If you're on the ball, then you can't be the freak you're trying to be, and Tony Dungy certainly is a freak. I don't know how to be him and sane and from the Middle East at the same time. Therefore, this thread.

LOL, OK, I give. I say crap like that too, I'm just saying it can come across easier in person.

Patjew

02-05-2007, 01:11 AM

Gee, it's funny, you don't look Jewish.

THAT'S the one I get.

patsfan55

02-05-2007, 01:14 AM

This was God's will, folks. That's it plain and simple. You can't go against God.

Plus, consider this: a Christian coach won, so America can be proud. If the Patriots want to get to the next level, they have to fire their Jewish coaches.

The Bears were done before they walked on the field: Mushin Muhammad? Are you kidding me? God would barf if he saw that?

FOLKS, DON'T TAKE OFFENSE, I'M BEING FACETIOUS!

ummm
we dont have any jewish coaches
only a jewish punter
and a jewish owner(who without we never would have one a single championship, hell wed be in st louis)

patsfan55

02-05-2007, 01:17 AM

he's just a mishugi goyim. :D

hhahahahah
damn goyim

Patjew

02-05-2007, 01:34 AM

hhahahahah
damn goyim

For real!!

...kidding!

upstater1

02-05-2007, 01:39 AM

I knew from your name. No Jews live upstate! In any state!

LOL, OK, I give. I say crap like that too, I'm just saying it can come across easier in person.

I have to say something. Dungy actually pissed me off when he said that.

I like the upstate line, but we know that isn't true. Maybe in Buffalo, but definitely not Rochester.

Patjew

02-05-2007, 01:54 AM

I have to say something. Dungy actually pissed me off when he said that.

Obviously! Me, I just laugh at it.

I like the upstate line, but we know that isn't true. Maybe in Buffalo, but definitely not Rochester.

Oh, you mean Southern Ontario?

I'm telling you, we don't live upstate.

3 to be 4

02-05-2007, 06:13 AM

Long time? 10 minutes is a long time?

As for being apt, it ruins a gag. If you're on the ball, then you can't be the freak you're trying to be, and Tony Dungy certainly is a freak. I don't know how to be him and sane and from the Middle East at the same time. Therefore, this thread.

here we go. Dungy is now a freak. lets see, a "Jesus Freak" maybe??

of course you have no agenda, upstater1.

again, another "Christian" saying someone who gives praise to God in any situation is a freak.

look, I know there are some off the wall people like Falwell and Roberstson.
But, as a Christian, if you have a problem with a guy like Tony Dungy, of all people, you have some serious questions to ask, not of Dungy, but of yourself.

And before you or others call me "judgemental", remember, it was you that started this, and it was you that "judged" Tony Dungy, without revealing until much later oh-im-christian-too- so-its ok.

you can call yourself all you want. But I would hope the church you go to would welcome a man like Tony Dungy with open arms.

mgteich

02-05-2007, 07:10 AM

:) :)

he's just a mishugi goyim. :D

mgteich

02-05-2007, 07:11 AM

Amen to your comments.

and NEM's :)

here we go. Dungy is now a freak. lets see, a "Jesus Freak" maybe??

of course you have no agenda, upstater1.

again, another "Christian" saying someone who gives praise to God in any situation is a freak.

look, I know there are some off the wall people like Falwell and Roberstson.
But, as a Christian, if you have a problem with a guy like Tony Dungy, of all people, you have some serious questions to ask, not of Dungy, but of yourself.

And before you or others call me "judgemental", remember, it was you that started this, and it was you that "judged" Tony Dungy, without revealing until much later oh-im-christian-too- so-its ok.

you can call yourself all you want. But I would hope the church you go to would welcome a man like Tony Dungy with open arms.

upstater1

02-05-2007, 09:28 AM

here we go. Dungy is now a freak. lets see, a "Jesus Freak" maybe??

of course you have no agenda, upstater1.

again, another "Christian" saying someone who gives praise to God in any situation is a freak.

look, I know there are some off the wall people like Falwell and Roberstson.
But, as a Christian, if you have a problem with a guy like Tony Dungy, of all people, you have some serious questions to ask, not of Dungy, but of yourself.

And before you or others call me "judgemental", remember, it was you that started this, and it was you that "judged" Tony Dungy, without revealing until much later oh-im-christian-too- so-its ok.

you can call yourself all you want. But I would hope the church you go to would welcome a man like Tony Dungy with open arms.

I;ve explained it to you multiple times, but you don't get it. Here's one last try: I have no problem with him praising God, or saying God wanted a Christian man to win, or anything to that effect. I have a problem with his answer to THIS question: "Tony, how is your win a big moment in American social history?"

"...Not only are Lovie and I the first African American coaches but we're also Christian coaches."

Um, so why is it a significant moment in American history that a Christian coach won the Super Bowl? Explain.

Lastly, I never said that I'm-a-Christian-so-it's-ok. You claimed I had an agenda. I interpreted that to mean you thought I was a hater from another religion. That's why I said deep into this thread that I'm Christian.

My agenda is clear: I have a problem with people that think it was some milestone for a Christian coach to win the Super Bowl. Why is that significant? I don't get it. For me, he's clearly got something against people of other faiths and persuasions, and as a christian, I don't like it.

And since we're being suspicious about myself and my agendas, let me say that the facetious ethnic bait I tossed up there isn't what offended you at all. That was just a smokescreen. You were offended because I was mocking Dungy's attempt to invoke the breakthrough event of Christian football coaches in American history.

3 to be 4

02-05-2007, 05:18 PM

I;ve explained it to you multiple times, but you don't get it. Here's one last try: I have no problem with him praising God, or saying God wanted a Christian man to win, or anything to that effect. I have a problem with his answer to THIS question: "Tony, how is your win a big moment in American social history?"

"...Not only are Lovie and I the first African American coaches but we're also Christian coaches."

Um, so why is it a significant moment in American history that a Christian coach won the Super Bowl? Explain.

Lastly, I never said that I'm-a-Christian-so-it's-ok. You claimed I had an agenda. I interpreted that to mean you thought I was a hater from another religion. That's why I said deep into this thread that I'm Christian.

My agenda is clear: I have a problem with people that think it was some milestone for a Christian coach to win the Super Bowl. Why is that significant? I don't get it. For me, he's clearly got something against people of other faiths and persuasions, and as a christian, I don't like it.

And since we're being suspicious about myself and my agendas, let me say that the facetious ethnic bait I tossed up there isn't what offended you at all. That was just a smokescreen. You were offended because I was mocking Dungy's attempt to invoke the breakthrough event of Christian football coaches in American history.

mgteich was the one who objected to your failed attempt at ethnic wit.

I never denied being put off by your mocking of a Christian man giving thanks to his Lord.

His milestone point isnt nearly as sinister as you would, for some reason, like to believe. You left out the part when he talked about proving how it was possible to win, doing things the right way, meaning, and i am not quoting him, just what my interpretation of what he was saying, that you can win by not yelling and screaming at people, by trying to honor the Lord by how you treat people on the job etc etc...

if you choose to get all offended by this, by all means, do so. It IS possible to advocate your beliefs without it being some slight on someone else.

And for the life of me, i dont understansd, and you never answered the point, of how if you yourself are a Christian, why a man like Tony Dungy, who almost all people, whether Christian or not, look up to as a good and decent man and honorable man, is such a problem for you.

upstater1

02-05-2007, 05:37 PM

mgteich was the one who objected to your failed attempt at ethnic wit.

I never denied being put off by your mocking of a Christian man giving thanks to his Lord.

His milestone point isnt nearly as sinister as you would, for some reason, like to believe. You left out the part when he talked about proving how it was possible to win, doing things the right way, meaning, and i am not quoting him, just what my interpretation of what he was saying, that you can win by not yelling and screaming at people, by trying to honor the Lord by how you treat people on the job etc etc...

if you choose to get all offended by this, by all means, do so. It IS possible to advocate your beliefs without it being some slight on someone else.

And for the life of me, i dont understansd, and you never answered the point, of how if you yourself are a Christian, why a man like Tony Dungy, who almost all people, whether Christian or not, look up to as a good and decent man and honorable man, is such a problem for you.

Because Christians don't have a monopoly on doing things the right way. I guess he was knocking all the coaches before him who yelled at their players and were hard on them and who were some how defective in terms of their relationship to Christ.

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 05:57 AM

Because Christians don't have a monopoly on doing things the right way. I guess he was knocking all the coaches before him who yelled at their players and were hard on them and who were some how defective in terms of their relationship to Christ.

He was? Or are you putting those exact words in his mouth?

upstater1

02-06-2007, 08:32 AM

He was? Or are you putting those exact words in his mouth?

No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying.

PatrioticDynasty

02-06-2007, 11:40 AM

No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying.

Ok, First off; We all know that talk of Race, Religion, Creed, and Politics are to not be discussed on this board, and I am a little disappointed of the statements written here, albeit that both a religious and Racial statement was made by a HC after SB41. I believe emotions were high and there was a lot of talk about Race leading into the game BEFORE the outcome, so in the coaches mind I am assuming that the race comment was acceptable since it was talked about in every aspect of the media for 2 weeks.

Secondly, The religious aspect is part of the American culture, take out a dollar bill and look at the back and tell me what it says, It doesn't proclaim ANY specific deity, or religion, which is why our fore fathers left England in the first place. What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public.

Trying to interpret what Tony said is your choice, but you can not force feed your interpretation on others at the expense of insulting others and making yourself appear ignorant.

Please all ( Including Moderator) Nothing good or Intellectual can come from Ridicule of someone's Race, Religion, Creed or Politics.

That is just my opinion.......

PD

RayClay

02-06-2007, 11:55 AM

In this country, a Christian person can inappropriately inject his religious beliefs into a non religious event.

That's just the way it is. Better to leave it alone.

But again, more than anything, I've said it before, Lovie Smith and I, not only the first two African-Americans, but Christian coaches, showing that you can win doing it the Lord's way. We're more proud of that.

Of course this begs the question, as opposed to what?

http://newsbusters.org/node/10619

upstater1

02-06-2007, 12:33 PM

Ok, First off; We all know that talk of Race, Religion, Creed, and Politics are to not be discussed on this board, and I am a little disappointed of the statements written here, albeit that both a religious and Racial statement was made by a HC after SB41. I believe emotions were high and there was a lot of talk about Race leading into the game BEFORE the outcome, so in the coaches mind I am assuming that the race comment was acceptable since it was talked about in every aspect of the media for 2 weeks.

Secondly, The religious aspect is part of the American culture, take out a dollar bill and look at the back and tell me what it says, It doesn't proclaim ANY specific deity, or religion, which is why our fore fathers left England in the first place. What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public.

Trying to interpret what Tony said is your choice, but you can not force feed your interpretation on others at the expense of insulting others and making yourself appear ignorant.

Please all ( Including Moderator) Nothing good or Intellectual can come from Ridicule of someone's Race, Religion, Creed or Politics.

That is just my opinion.......

PD

I was trying to force my opinion? Please get off your high horse. The only ones who are ignorant are those who don't understand what sarcasm is.

You write: "What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public."

But I don't have the right to question him. Got it.

PatrioticDynasty

02-06-2007, 01:04 PM

I was trying to force my opinion? Please get off your high horse. The only ones who are ignorant are those who don't understand what sarcasm is.

You write: "What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public."

But I don't have the right to question him. Got it.

you have the right to question him, but not on this board and NOT WITH A STATMENT LIKE: No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying. see the RED text, can you just step back and see the red text only, that is an ignorant statement, because there is no way in HELL you KNOW what Tony meant. and that IS NOT what he said, period.
I am not on any damn high horse either, I was only trying to write my opinion without referencing RACE - RELIGION - CREED or POLITICS....you try doing that when the F`ING THREAD IS TOTOALLY ABOUT THAT!

Don't crap on me when you insult me and others with your racial comments

Geeez...

High horse.....what a bunch of sh!t....

How about no more of the 3 R's in threads eh? Ride that one for a while......

PD

upstater1

02-06-2007, 01:11 PM

you have the right to question him, but not on this board and NOT WITH A STATMENT LIKE: No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying. see the RED text, can you just step back and see the red text only, that is an ignorant statement, because there is no way in HELL you KNOW what Tony meant. and that IS NOT what he said, period.
I am not on any damn high horse either, I was only trying to write my opinion without referencing RACE - RELIGION - CREED or POLITICS....you try doing that when the F`ING THREAD IS TOTOALLY ABOUT THAT!

Don't crap on me when you insult me and others with your racial comments

Geeez...

High horse.....what a bunch of sh!t....

How about no more of the 3 R's in threads eh? Ride that one for a while......

PD

You have a real problem, friend. Becuase you got on here and started crapping on me. You have a thin skin, too, because you dish it out but can't take it. There are plenty of reasonable people on this thread that understood exactly what I meant, and no one here has offered an alternative understanding of Dungy's words. He repeatedly has said he and Lovie did it the right way, and then in the next breath he talks about their being christian coaches. You tell me, what the hell is he talking about?

Next, what racial comments are you referring to? Dude, get off your high horse.

PatrioticDynasty

02-06-2007, 01:25 PM

[QUOTE=PatrioticDynasty;332523]you have the right to question him, but not on this board and NOT WITH A STATMENT LIKE:

You have a real problem, friend. Becuase you got on here and started crapping on me. You have a thin skin, too, because you dish it out but can't take it. There are plenty of reasonable people on this thread that understood exactly what I meant, and no one here has offered an alternative understanding of Dungy's words. He repeatedly has said he and Lovie did it the right way, and then in the next breath he talks about their being christian coaches. You tell me, what the hell is he talking about?

Next, what racial comments are you referring to? Dude, get off your high horse.

first of all I'm not your friend, second of all YOU have the problem, we all know what racial comment he made..hey you are good at reading peoples thoughts and you know what I must have meant? right? did you even read my first post? he was very emotional after the game, Tony is a very religeious guy... so what, do you really think he was trying to piss everyone off whith what he said? why not get mad about the 2 african americans comment? why not 2 hispanic coaches? or asian? or whatever? I don't care, but you should not make ignorant comments about Religeion period, joking or not on a sports message board...I'm tired of this pissing contest.......so go to Hell... hows that? did you think I was going to say that? did you think that is what I really meant to say?...sounds stupid doesn't it...

upstater1

02-06-2007, 02:26 PM

[QUOTE=upstater1;332534]

first of all I'm not your friend, second of all YOU have the problem, we all know what racial comment he made..hey you are good at reading peoples thoughts and you know what I must have meant? right? did you even read my first post? he was very emotional after the game, Tony is a very religeious guy... so what, do you really think he was trying to piss everyone off whith what he said? why not get mad about the 2 african americans comment? why not 2 hispanic coaches? or asian? or whatever? I don't care, but you should not make ignorant comments about Religeion period, joking or not on a sports message board...I'm tired of this pissing contest.......so go to Hell... hows that? did you think I was going to say that? did you think that is what I really meant to say?...sounds stupid doesn't it...

I didn't make a racial comment. not at all. A lot of people here have understood that fact. The people who don't know how to read haven't.

When someone asks, how is this an important moment in social history? Then it's entirely appropriate to reference the fact that he's the first African-American to win a Super Bowl. That IS indeed an event in history. He was an African-American coach. When Norm Chow or Wayne Fontes win a Super Bowl, then they too can celebrate their accomplishment. But that's entirely different from pointing out the social impact of having a Christian coach win it, especially when they comment is girded with this idea that he did it "the right way." "With dignity and class." As opposed to whom?

As for your other gibberish, grow up.

PatrioticDynasty

02-06-2007, 02:51 PM

I didn't make a racial comment. not at all. A lot of people here have understood that fact. The people who don't know how to read haven't.

Ok you say you didn't make a racial comment....so why type this:

The Bears were done before they walked on the field: Mushin Muhammad? Are you kidding me? A turbanhead touching the Lombardi trophy? God would barf if he saw that?.
what the HELL do you call that? you even went back to edit it, but several posters who know how to read quoted your original statement.

so please explain that to me... because I can't read? and that is not a childish statement either right?

Look, you started the taboo thread, not I...what did you expect, that I come out and say "yeah you are right man! that is exactly what he meant to say"

I can admit when I am wrong, and I have, Why is it easier for you to insult me rather than own up to your mistake?

just don't type threads about that stuff, stick to the Pats man, If Tony said what you originally wrote he would have had bricks thrown at him and you know it, so why write it?

It wasn't funny at all. It pi$$ed me off as well as a number of other posters....

PD

upstater1

02-06-2007, 03:52 PM

Ok you say you didn't make a racial comment....so why type this:

what the HELL do you call that? you even went back to edit it, but several posters who know how to read quoted your original statement.

so please explain that to me... because I can't read? and that is not a childish statement either right?

Look, you started the taboo thread, not I...what did you expect, that I come out and say "yeah you are right man! that is exactly what he meant to say"

I can admit when I am wrong, and I have, Why is it easier for you to insult me rather than own up to your mistake?

just don't type threads about that stuff, stick to the Pats man, If Tony said what you originally wrote he would have had bricks thrown at him and you know it, so why write it?

It wasn't funny at all. It pi$$ed me off as well as a number of other posters....

PD

And many other posters understood completely that I was being facetious. It was only yourself, 3x4, and mgteich that freaked about it. I explained it to Patjew and he understood where I was coming from. Like I said, I'm thinking you guys are mostly pissed that I'm calling on Dungy for mentioning the oh so marvelous feat of a Christian coach winning the Super Bowl. I don't buy this argument that you're offended by turbanhead, because I was clearly being ironic. I think the stuff I've written in this thread addressing that slur preecisely pretty much explains why I used that.

PatrioticDynasty

02-06-2007, 04:27 PM

And many other posters understood completely that I was being facetious. It was only yourself, 3x4, and mgteich that freaked about it. I explained it to Patjew and he understood where I was coming from. Like I said, I'm thinking you guys are mostly pissed that I'm calling on Dungy for mentioning the oh so marvelous feat of a Christian coach winning the Super Bowl. I don't buy this argument that you're offended by turbanhead, because I was clearly being ironic. I think the stuff I've written in this thread addressing that slur preecisely pretty much explains why I used that.
sdo it's ok to say Turbonhead because your being ironic? where is the irony in your statement, why did you edit it and take it out if you truly belive it was fine? Isn't mgteich a moderator? why not take what he said seriously then, it was aninsult to Religion and Race.

Calm down, mgteich. I was being sarcastic. I don't even know what your argument is. I'm implying that his faith is as important to him as race? Wha? Maybe but I don't even know how and what the significance is. What the hell does that mean?

For the record, this wasn't a colorful joke. I was being facetious, and I've said a lot worse to my students, who are comfortable with my teaching methods, and also bright enough to understand sarcasm and facetious speech when they hear it, like a lot of people on this thread...

And are you also to have us belive as a teacher you make similar comments to your students and they are ok with that? Iwould think you would be fired as well...

No, I don't like racist jokes either, and this clearly wasn't one, so get off my back and maybe kick your dog instead.

It was a racist joke, and a religieous joke...as for the dog part? where did that come from? are you an animal abuser as well as a racist and a Religion-hater? No, you are probably far from it, and your intentions were not to be harmful, I understand that...But you wrote them, and by defending them there can be no other conclusion than you are those things...and it scares me to think you actually teach our children your misguided ethics...

Admit your mistake, appologize to mgteich and the rest of us and be done with it......

PD

upstater1

02-06-2007, 04:34 PM

sdo it's ok to say Turbonhead because your being ironic?

Yes, of course, since I am a turbanhead. I don't mind either if a non-turbanhead uses it to be ironic, because the use of irory is quite powerful (and funny) in most situations.

where is the irony in your statement, why did you edit it and take it out if you truly belive it was fine?

Because three of you got angry and I realized my point about Dungy could still be made without it.

Isn't mgteich a moderator? why not take what he said seriously then, it was aninsult to Religion and Race.

Because it wasn't an insult to religion and race.

And are you also to have us belive as a teacher you make similar comments to your students and they are ok with that? Iwould think you would be fired as well...

No, my students are smart enough to realize the context in which I say and teach things. We can read Huck Finn and Kathy Acker and use the C... word and ask questions about how she's using it. I have had parents write to complain, but in almost every case I explained to them why we use these words in class, and they're perfectly fine with it. Fired? nope.

It was a racist joke, and a religieous joke...as for the dog part? where did that come from? are you an animal abuser as well as a racist and a Religion-hater?

Yes, I am. And an axe-murderer, and every single awful thing you can think of! I'm coming to get you. I'm the boogeyman. Boogaloolooo, I say, in my Porky's-corpse-rising-from-the-cemetery voice.

Go have a beer.

PatrioticDynasty

02-06-2007, 04:56 PM

Yes, of course, since I am a turbanhead. I don't mind either if a non-turbanhead uses it to be ironic, because the use of irory is quite powerful (and funny) in most situations..

but not on a Pats message board agreed? I'm not sure about the first part of this staement, I don't know too many people of middle eastern desent who would be ok with that staement...Irony is funny in most situations yes, not with religion and race, come on, don't sell me or anyone else that snake oil

Because three of you got angry and I realized my point about Dungy could still be made without it... but by pulling that line out you only made yourself look guilty...

Because it wasn't an insult to religion and race isin't this in total contradiction to your first statement above? You practically admit it, and even though it may not bother you it bothers me as well as many others...

No, my students are smart enough to realize the context in which I say and teach things. We can read Huck Finn and Kathy Acker and use the C... word and ask questions about how she's using it. I have had parents write to complain, but in almost every case I explained to them why we use these words in class, and they're perfectly fine with it. Fired? nope. perfectly fine with it.....The C... word, are you Nutz! If my daughter came home and said that word I don't think I would be fine with it....so IF you teach your class other slurs like the N word because you are teaching them about the slave trade and the kids go home and say that, is that OK? I don't think so...

Yes, I am. And an axe-murderer, and every single awful thing you can think of! I'm coming to get you. I'm the boogeyman. Boogaloolooo, I say, in my Porky's-corpse-rising-from-the-cemetery voice.

Go have a beer. using humor in this context is a denial response, you still won't own up to what you said, and didn't you tell me earlier to grow up...and giberish? your hypocritical sophomoric reply only acquiesce my last post...

PD.

upstater1

02-06-2007, 05:29 PM

but not on a Pats message board agreed? I'm not sure about the first part of this staement, I don't know too many people of middle eastern desent who would be ok with that staement...Irony is funny in most situations yes, not with religion and race, come on, don't sell me or anyone else that snake oil

Why are religion and race sacred cows? As for a Pats message board, this is in reference to Dungy and the Super Bowl.

but by pulling that line out you only made yourself look guilty...

Yeah, but I thought what's the point in offending some of you people. I've always defended what I said, i just didn't want you people getting on my case. That's not guilt. That's called trying to end the controversy, but I'll be damned if I let people like you call me a racist, especially after the situations I've been involved with in my life.

isin't this in total contradiction to your first statement above? You practically admit it, and even though it may not bother you it bothers me as well as many others...

No, it's not a contradiction. Not at all. When I see Borat rail with his anti-Smeitic comments, in Hebrew no less, I don't go away thinking that Sascha Cohen is anti-Semite, and Borat says a lot more vile things than I have. Well guess what, his movie was the top grossing movie in the US. You're still telling me it's inappropriate for someone to take about race and religion facetiously? Because apparently, most of America disagrees with you, as Borat proves.

The C... word, are you Nutz! If my daughter came home and said that word I don't think I would be fine with it....so IF you teach your class other slurs like the N word because you are teaching them about the slave trade and the kids go home and say that, is that OK? I don't think so...

Have you ever read Huck Finn? The word is tossed around. Some of the books I teach use that word and much worse. These books are indeed targetted by certain groups and blacklisted, but I thibnk a lot of teachers stand by the teaching of even offensive material.

using humor in this context is a denial response, you still won't own up to what you said, and didn't you tell me earlier to grow up...and giberish? your hypocritical sophomoric reply only acquiesce my last post...

Is this English? maybe you should take my class.

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 05:34 PM

Yes, of course, since I am a turbanhead. I don't mind either if a non-turbanhead uses it to be ironic, because the use of irory is quite powerful (and funny) in most situations.

Because three of you got angry and I realized my point about Dungy could still be made without it.

Because it wasn't an insult to religion and race.

No, my students are smart enough to realize the context in which I say and teach things. We can read Huck Finn and Kathy Acker and use the C... word and ask questions about how she's using it. I have had parents write to complain, but in almost every case I explained to them why we use these words in class, and they're perfectly fine with it. Fired? nope.

Yes, I am. And an axe-murderer, and every single awful thing you can think of! I'm coming to get you. I'm the boogeyman. Boogaloolooo, I say, in my Porky's-corpse-rising-from-the-cemetery voice.

Go have a beer.

i think you are basically playing head games upstater1. For one thing, nobody "freaked" out about what you said. It was YOU who freaked out enough about what Dungy said to start a post about it.
Secondly, you earlier said you were a Christian yourself. Then you continue to go after another Christian like Dungy with a passion, without ever mentioning anything about what you, yourself believe. Now we have another "late-inning" surprise, as you are now calling yourself a "turbanhead".

So whats next? Are you going to be Jewish later?

And that stuff at the end? I dont even believe you are a teacher.

What is your real agenda? Because im convinced you are just throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what will stick at this point.

most likely you are a 17 kid having a good laugh.

PatrioticDynasty

02-06-2007, 05:48 PM

Why are religion and race sacred cows? As for a Pats message board, this is in reference to Dungy and the Super Bowl..
sure,by al means talk about it, but why make a Racist and Religieous joke? just plain stupid

Yeah, but I thought what's the point in offending some of you people. I've always defended what I said, i just didn't want you people getting on my case. That's not guilt. That's called trying to end the controversy, but I'll be damned if I let people like you call me a racist, especially after the situations I've been involved with in my life.
What's with the "YOU PEOPLE" reference? if you keep defending what you wrote then you ARE a racist and a religion hater.

No, it's not a contradiction. Not at all. When I see Borat rail with his anti-Smeitic comments, in Hebrew no less, I don't go away thinking that Sascha Cohen is anti-Semite, and Borat says a lot more vile things than I have. Well guess what, his movie was the top grossing movie in the US. You're still telling me it's inappropriate for someone to take about race and religion facetiously? Because apparently, most of America disagrees with you, as Borat proves..
we are not talking about a movie here, trying to change the subject proves my point, you are still defending your racisim and religious hatred...we are talking about YOUR poor attempt at a joke, which was not funny to sevaral people, not just the 3 aforementioned.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever read Huck Finn? The word is tossed around. Some of the books I teach use that word and much worse. These books are indeed targetted by certain groups and blacklisted, but I thibnk a lot of teachers stand by the teaching of even offensive material.
sure I have, but don't you remember, you told me I can't read? so therfore I am just as illiterate as certain groups you speak off right?

Is this English? maybe you should take my class.
only if i want to be Racist and a Religous hater...

upstater1

02-06-2007, 06:36 PM

sure,by al means talk about it, but why make a Racist and Religieous joke? just plain stupid

I didn't but you're IQ is low so you can't figure out what I said.

What's with the "YOU PEOPLE" reference? if you keep defending what you wrote then you ARE a racist and a religion hater.

YOU PEOPLE = THE CATEGORY THAT YOU ARE IN =MORON

we are not talking about a movie here, trying to change the subject proves my point, you are still defending your racisim and religious hatred...we are talking about YOUR poor attempt at a joke, which was not funny to sevaral people, not just the 3 aforementioned.[/QUOTE]

Patjew said it wasn't funny, then I explained it to him. He was OK with it, and obviously you don't know much about American culture because Borat was a mocumentary, not a movie. There were real situations.

sure I have, but don't you remember, you told me I can't read? so therfore I am just as illiterate as certain groups you speak off right?

Yep

only if i want to be Racist and a Religous hater...[/QUOTE]

Or an idiot.

Let's face it, your so-called offense is all fake. You canc are less that I said turbanhead. You're just grasping at straws to attack me because I mocked Dungy for being the first "Christian coach" to win a Super Bowl. You'ree pretty easy to see through, and I've always found that religious bigots and racists are usually the first people the throw those accusations at other people. You don't surprise me at all.

upstater1

02-06-2007, 06:47 PM

i think you are basically playing head games upstater1. For one thing, nobody "freaked" out about what you said. It was YOU who freaked out enough about what Dungy said to start a post about it.
Secondly, you earlier said you were a Christian yourself. Then you continue to go after another Christian like Dungy with a passion, without ever mentioning anything about what you, yourself believe. Now we have another "late-inning" surprise, as you are now calling yourself a "turbanhead".

So whats next? Are you going to be Jewish later?

And that stuff at the end? I dont even believe you are a teacher.

What is your real agenda? Because im convinced you are just throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what will stick at this point.

most likely you are a 17 kid having a good laugh.

I'm Lebanese. And I teach. does that answer your question?

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 07:28 PM

I'm Lebanese. And I teach. does that answer your question?

now we are getting somewhere. A Christian Lebanese teacher who teaches kids to use the C word.

what kind of worship does your "church" do? Traditional? Christian Contemporary? Gospel? What denomination?
just curious.

It must have been a difficult time during the conflict a few months ago? Do you have a lot of Christian friends over in Lebanon?

upstater1

02-06-2007, 08:17 PM

now we are getting somewhere. A Christian Lebanese teacher who teaches kids to use the C word.

what kind of worship does your "church" do? Traditional? Christian Contemporary? Gospel? What denomination?
just curious.

It must have been a difficult time during the conflict a few months ago? Do you have a lot of Christian friends over in Lebanon?

I don't know but I find it ironic people are defending Arabs and they're not aware of the large numbers of Arab Christians, especially in Lebanon. This is why I know you're not bothered at all by the word.

I grew up in New England. I don't have friends over there, I have relatives, but I also don't go there. And for good reason. But the fact is, there are a lot of Arab christians, most of whom are Orthodox, but a good chunk are Catholic. This is how it is.

And I love how the little racism creeps in. "Church" in quotations, eh? Because Arabs can't be "real" Christians after all. Just like Catholics and their fealty to the Pope, the devil incarnate. I'm always amazed at how the bigots start calling other people racist.

By the way, you should talk to your kids more often.

Brady to Brown

02-06-2007, 09:34 PM

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 09:34 PM

I don't know but I find it ironic people are defending Arabs and they're not aware of the large numbers of Arab Christians, especially in Lebanon. This is why I know you're not bothered at all by the word.

I grew up in New England. I don't have friends over there, I have relatives, but I also don't go there. And for good reason. But the fact is, there are a lot of Arab christians, most of whom are Orthodox, but a good chunk are Catholic. This is how it is.

And I love how the little racism creeps in. "Church" in quotations, eh? Because Arabs can't be "real" Christians after all. Just like Catholics and their fealty to the Pope, the devil incarnate. I'm always amazed at how the bigots start calling other people racist.

By the way, you should talk to your kids more often.

wow, do you read things into everything. the quotes was because up until now you showed such a disdain for someone standing up for living as a Christian, I really had no reason to believe you were, in fact, a Christian.

maybe before you call other people bigots you should look in the mirror and ask yourself if you have some preconceived notions of what Christians such as myself or Tony Dungy might be all about.

You dished it out pretty good when you started this thread, and now are defensively assuming anti-Arab and anti-Catholic leanings from all who would call you out on your own hostility toward a person who looks at his faith different than you.

captain stone

02-06-2007, 09:37 PM

This was God's will, folks. That's it plain and simple. You can't go against God.

Plus, consider this: a Christian coach won, so America can be proud. If the Patriots want to get to the next level, they have to fire their Jewish coaches.

The Bears were done before they walked on the field: Mushin Muhammad? Are you kidding me? God would barf if he saw that?

FOLKS, DON'T TAKE OFFENSE, I'M BEING FACETIOUS!

I know that you're being facetious, because...there is no god. And if there is a god, then he is one sick piece of effin shyte. Eff god.

mgteich

02-06-2007, 09:58 PM

Being Lebanese does not make it reasonable to make racial slurs against Muslims or Arabs, any more than it is reasonable for African Americans to use the N word, or for Jews to use racial slurs regarding Jews. Using racial slurs in jokes or in facetious statements does not make them any more accpetable. That you don't understand why using racial slurs within a novel like Huckelberry Finn is a difficrent situation does put serious doubt to your statement that you are a teacher. I have no idea why it relevant that there are millions of Lebanese Christians, or Palestinian Christains or Israel Christians.

I suppose it is your priviledge to attack Dungy as a freak for celebrating his Christianity in his moment of triumph, thanking God for his victory, and yes, him being proud that one can win the SB without cursing, raising your voice or demeaning your players. That you think that this isn't rare is just plain silly.

I've certainly heard devout and public Christians called worse in this free country, and yes, most often by other Christains. And of course, I've certainly heard Dungy and other colts called worse on this board.

I'm not offended that you don't approve of Dungy's behavior. Millions understood his comments. Many celebrated with him. You are entitled to your opinion. I'm sure many agree with your view that thanking God in public, especially by a public figure at a sporting event is inappropriate. And I know, your angst is about more than that. Sure it is. It is about a public expression of Christianity. I'm sure you would be mortified if the networks showed the pregame and postgame prayers, celebrated by members of opposing teams before almost every NFL game. I'm sure some are non-denominational. Most are not.

Me, I find Dungy's comments refreshing. Since the vast majority of Americans are believers, and most are Christian believers, I find it stange that so many would want to keep religion out of the public forum. I appreciate the public aspect of Senator Joe Lieberman's religious views, and their affect on his demeanor and his politics. I appreciated Sandy Koufax not playing on Saturday so long ago. And BTW, I appreciate the standard of conduct that Mrs. Kraft helps impose on players who want to be patriots.

just my 2 cents

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 10:00 PM

I know that you're being facetious, because...there is no god. And if there is a god, then he is one sick piece of effin shyte. Eff god.

upstater1 will defend your right to say that, just as long as you dont say anything REEEEEAAAAALLLLY offensive like Tony Dungy did!

upstater1

02-06-2007, 10:01 PM

You dished it out pretty good when you started this thread, and now are defensively assuming anti-Arab and anti-Catholic leanings from all who would call you out on your own hostility toward a person who looks at his faith different than you.

Fella, you threw out the racist and bigot labels first without trying to understand what I was saying. Yeah, I still think Dungy is a freak for saying that. I have no problem with him praising God for the win, thanking Jesus Christ, all of that is "kosher" for me.

But this constant refrain of, "We did it the right way," is too high hat for me. Sorry. You disagree. No reason to call me a racist or bigot. And then you say I'm coming on stong? Please. "We did it the Christian way." As opposed to what?

Yeah, there are real "churches" in the Middle East, despite what some people may think.

RayClay

02-06-2007, 10:16 PM

Dungy's a pompous ass.

I don't think the "sarcasm" is appropriate, but neither is his pompous ass holier than thou act.

Hey Tony, you know how many Christian NFL coaches have won the Super bowl? Probably 95% of them.

I'd check to see if any Wiccans or Zoroastrians have triumphed but I don't know where to look that up.

Pompous ass!!!!!

upstater1

02-06-2007, 10:16 PM

[QUOTE]Being Lebanese does not make it reasonable to make racial slurs against Muslims or Arabs, any more than it is reasonable for African Americans to use the N word, or for Jews to use racial slurs regarding Jews.

I never used an ethnic slur "against" them. Do you think my post was "against" Arabs? Not everyone perceives it that way. Some people understand the spirit I worte it in, and understand that I was being facetious.

Using racial slurs in jokes or in facetious statements does not make them any more accpetable.

Well, that's an interesting point of view. I think you should write, "acceptable to me," because in the Borat film (which wasn't a fiction) he ripped off one ethnic slur after another, lots of anti-semitism, lots of Arab baiting. And people laughed. Not at Jews or Arabs, but at Borat, because they knew he was being facetious.

That you don't understand why using racial slurs within a novel like Huckelberry Finn is a difficrent situation does put serious doubt to your statement that you are a teacher.

It's the same. I wasn't using slurs AGAINST anyone. I was using them to make a point, a non-racist point, in context. That being said, I wouldn't use the N-word, because it has too vexed a history, or though I understood that Kramer was trying to be over-the-top when he used the word, I thought he was a stupid idiot. But I also don't buy it when non-African-Americans lecture people like Chris Rock on whether he should be using the N-word, or other African-Americans who laugh at Chris Rock for using it. It's really not up to you to tell them whether they have a right to take a hateful word and empower it in new and different ways.

I have no idea why it relevant that there are millions of Lebanese Christians, or Palestinian Christains or Israel Christians.

I have no idea either. That only came up because some others questioned my religion and ethnicity. Notice I didn't bring it up until directly confronted about my background.

I suppose it is your priviledge to attack Dungy as a freak for celebrating his Christianity in his moment of triumph, thanking God for his victory, and yes, him being proud that one can win the SB without cursing, raising your voice or demeaning your players. That you think that this isn't rare is just plain silly.

That's not what I did. I repeatedly defended his right to invoke a Christian God. It's clear the problem was with noting the social and historical importance of a victory by a Christian coach. No one here has yet been able to tell me why this is a notable or important event. What difference does it make? You tell me. Just who is he comparing himself to when he says this time a coach won doing it the Christian way, the right way. He's used both lines. All well and good that he follows the Christian way. Christ was righteous. I applaud that. But he goes too far when he makes it evident that this is somehow a break with the past.

I'm sure many agree with your view that thanking God in public, especially by a public figure at a sporting event is inappropriate.

I'm fine with people thanking God in public.

And I know, your angst is about more than that. Sure it is. It is about a public expression of Christianity.

You're wrong. It's too bad you haven't read what I wrote fairly early in this thread. But I forgive you (as a good Christian should) because this is a fairly long worthless thread on a completely meanignless incident which I responded to with a sarcastic crack, and I wish I hadn't at all, but I only stuck around because I felt being called a racist and a bigot was something that I had to respond to.

I'm sure you would be mortified if the networks showed the pregame and postgame prayers, celebrated by members of opposing teams before almost every NFL game. I'm sure some are non-denominational. Most are not.

I played football. I went to a Catholic school. I took part in these. But yeah, I felt bad for the Jewish football players. And really, what Tony Boselli used to bring into the locker room week after week was also over the top and ridiculous.

upstater1

02-06-2007, 10:21 PM

upstater1 will defend your right to say that, just as long as you dont say anything REEEEEAAAAALLLLY offensive like Tony Dungy did!

If it was "really" offensive I wouldn't have made a wisecrack. I would have probably asked myself, just what "church" does this guy belong to. Is it a legitimate "church?"

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 10:29 PM

Fella, you threw out the racist and bigot labels first without trying to understand what I was saying. Yeah, I still think Dungy is a freak for saying that. I have no problem with him praising God for the win, thanking Jesus Christ, all of that is "kosher" for me.

But this constant refrain of, "We did it the right way," is too high hat for me. Sorry. You disagree. No reason to call me a racist or bigot. And then you say I'm coming on stong? Please. "We did it the Christian way." As opposed to what?

Yeah, there are real "churches" in the Middle East, despite what some people may think.

Fella, read back a few posts, who is calling who a bigot? And you keep goofing up the quotes. He said "Two Christian coaches...who showed you could do it the right way" He didnt say Christian way. You know, the right way? being decent? being kind? having integrity? Now, it might very well be that their Christian faith teaches them how to do it the "right way" but that in no way excluded anybody else from doing it being decent,being kind, having integrity.
You want to be paranoid about it go right ahead.

And btw, i am very well aware there are Christian Arabs. There are also Christian Jews, Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah. There are many, many Christians living a brave life in the Middle East, and also suffering because of it.

I doubted YOU because your credibility was weakened by many shaky statements and the way you conveniently left off information about where you were coming from.

And again, with all the attacks thrown at Christianity and all the offensive things that are out there in this world, WHY would a self-proclaimed Christian make his stand, devote an entire thread to going after a Christian for celebrating the role his faith has played in his life in order to maybe be an example for others?

That is a question I have posed on the Religious forum because I hear this a lot from a segment of people, Christians, not a majority, but a good number, who get all bent out of shape when another Christian does what Jesus called us to do. Call me judgemental ( its not always the worst word in the world, folks, despite what the current culture is shoving at us), but it makes me wonder who it is these Christians serve.

bashing a guy for praising the one who is the center of the faith you profess.

It boggles the mind.

mgteich

02-06-2007, 10:38 PM

upstater1

02-06-2007, 10:38 PM

I've made myself clear. The fact that it isn't registering with you isn't my fault.

Christian Jews, eh?

upstater1

02-06-2007, 10:43 PM

Upstater,

Yes, I read all the posts.

I believe that Dungy runs his team differently than other coaches. In his Christian walk, it is important not to curse, not to yell or raise your voice, to treat everyone with deference and respect, and not to demen your players. He believes that modeling this behavior, and expecting it from his players, which for him derives from Christianity, is a very unusual way to run a football team. I suspect that this is indeed true. Some would call him a pompous *****.
I suppose that it is a matter of perspective.

I agree that the thread wasn't very useful. To be clear, I don't thinkt a called you a racist. I suggested and still do that your comments were racist. You don't distinguish between public expression and a movie or a book. There is a difference. I beleive that in the Commonwealth of Massachussets you would be fired for the use of the t word, or at least reprimanded at any public school. Attacking Dungy as you did would be acceptable. That is simply my opinion.

By the way, as for the movie, book and public statements issues, there's a bit more to parse. I was using the book as an example to show that hateful words can be mentioned and discussed in context. I wasn't equating what I did with what goes on in Huck Finn. When I said I use those words with my students, clearly it's in the context of literature, although I have used swear words on quite a few occasions :rocker:

But as for the so-called movie, have you seen it? It's all about public speech. That's what it is. This is exactly the same venue that we're in right now. What's the difference?

My only issue with what Dungy said is the implication that other ways are the "wrong" way. That's basically it. If you're going to use the word "right," then there's gotta to be a "wrong" in there somewhere.

I do suspect Dungy is a phony for other reasons, but this thread deserves to die.

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 10:46 PM

...........that's not what I did. I repeatedly defended his right to invoke a Christian God. It's clear the problem was with noting the social and historical importance of a victory by a Christian coach. No one here has yet been able to tell me why this is a notable or important event. What difference does it make? You tell me. Just who is he comparing himself to when he says this time a coach won doing it the Christian way, the right way. He's used both lines. All well and good that he follows the Christian way. Christ was righteous. I applaud that. But he goes too far when he makes it evident that this is somehow a break with the past..........

I played football. I went to a Catholic school. I took part in these. But yeah, I felt bad for the Jewish football players. And really, what Tony Boselli used to bring into the locker room week after week was also over the top and ridiculous.

um, yeah, we did, you just didnt want to listen. The question asked was about the social significance, meaning being African-American. Then Dungy answered that and THEN, without ever claiming to be the first or saying that was a break from the past, as if it never happened before, he went on to celebrate for himself and Lovie Smith that they were Christian coaches. YOU keep adding the historical link that Dungy never made. Its a distraction to the point and I have no clue why you keep doing it, ESPECIALLY being a Christian yourself.
He went on to talk about that their faith allowed them to do things the right way, not in exclusion of other people with other faiths. This is the stuff that angers you so much you have to post a thread about it? That another christian celebrates his Christian faith? It should be the worst thng to ever happen to you, brother.

As far as Tony Boselli, again, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?? why does this bother you? You want all your fellow Christians to be nice and quiet and not rock the boat or disturb anyone? sorry, thats not what the New Testament ( or the Old, for that matter) instructs us to do.

mgteich

02-06-2007, 10:47 PM

Dungy may indeed be a phony for other reasons. Dungy believes that the wrong way to run a football team is through intimidation, yelling at your team, often showing anger and cursing. That is his opinion.

But you're right; this thread should probably die.

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 10:49 PM

I've made myself clear. The fact that it isn't registering with you isn't my fault.

Christian Jews, eh?

here we go, lets hear the "open mindedness" of the good teacher.

3 to be 4

02-06-2007, 10:54 PM

By the way, as for the movie, book and public statements issues, there's a bit more to parse. I was using the book as an example to show that hateful words can be mentioned and discussed in context. I wasn't equating what I did with what goes on in Huck Finn. When I said I use those words with my students, clearly it's in the context of literature, although I have used swear words on quite a few occasions :rocker:

But as for the so-called movie, have you seen it? It's all about public speech. That's what it is. This is exactly the same venue that we're in right now. What's the difference?

My only issue with what Dungy said is the implication that other ways are the "wrong" way. That's basically it. If you're going to use the word "right," then there's gotta to be a "wrong" in there somewhere.

I do suspect Dungy is a phony for other reasons, but this thread deserves to die.

make it three. this thread belongs in the Religious forum at this point.
c'mon over if you want to rank on your fellow Christians and Messianic Jews.

upstater1

02-06-2007, 11:51 PM

here we go, lets hear the "open mindedness" of the good teacher.

Sorry, they don't teach open-mindedness at my phony Lebanese "church."

3 to be 4

02-07-2007, 06:11 AM

Sorry, they don't teach open-mindedness at my phony Lebanese "church."

I like the way you let the thread die, upstater, i think you love it.

Its fine with me because I like the topic being out there for discussion. However, it is more appropriate for the Religious forum.

Lets make it clear. You threw the "Christian Jew, eh?" thing out there. And you are the one who are now using the word "phony".

i made it clear that I fully understand that there are Arab Christians, It is you that I have doubted.

captain stone

02-07-2007, 07:57 AM

2 more cents: Eff Irsay, eff naPoilian, eff Dungheep, eff Payaton; and eff god, for allowing such a dispicible franchise to succeed. Great message for the rest of us, doG.

upstater1

02-07-2007, 09:59 AM

I like the way you let the thread die, upstater, i think you love it.

Its fine with me because I like the topic being out there for discussion. However, it is more appropriate for the Religious forum.

Lets make it clear. You threw the "Christian Jew, eh?" thing out there. And you are the one who are now using the word "phony".

i made it clear that I fully understand that there are Arab Christians, It is you that I have doubted.

Look in the mirror

pao

02-07-2007, 11:16 AM

I;ve explained it to you multiple times, but you don't get it.

This seems to be a recurring problem for you. Maybe it's because you are so often wrong and you don't get it.

pao

PatrioticDynasty

02-07-2007, 12:16 PM

First off, I am glad this was finally moved to where it belongs on the board.

I didn't but you're IQ is low so you can't figure out what I said.
OK, so you have to resort to bashing my inteligence to what? make me feel timid enough to say: "oh, he said my IQ is low...maybe I should not offend the very smart upstater1".... Typical response for someone when they feel they no longer have a valid argument to resort to insult to try and manipulate and overpower the other into quiet submision, you are still defending what you said and you have never answered my question that if you defend it then you must agree to the comment AS a insulting racial and religious joke. I don't understand why you can't admit that it was poor judgement to start the thread as you did, unless you were going for a Shock response because of your underlying hatred for Christians even though you say you are one, I feel that deep down you probably resent being rasied as one, and are only Christian in name as a defense mechanisim to your outlandish post.

YOU PEOPLE = THE CATEGORY THAT YOU ARE IN =MORON
Again, as I have stated above, resorting to insults is only admitting that you are wrong. so what you are saying then is that every one that YOU refer to as "YOU PEOPLE" who responded to your racisit and religious hater joke is a moron, that truley lacks tact Mr teacher.

Patjew said it wasn't funny, then I explained it to him. He was OK with it, and obviously you don't know much about American culture because Borat was a mocumentary, not a movie. There were real situations.
Because one individual is swayed, or just doesn't want to get involved doesn't mean it was ok? Because the Germans were brain washed in WWII about the Jews and the Polish does that mean that they were right in thier judgement? Also, I know enough about american history Being part Native american, and Hispanic as well as Roman Catholic, I too have had many confrontations in my past, I can not blame the People of now/and the future for the mistakes of the past. I can only use them as reference so the same mistakes are not made again.

A small example: I was working at a job and a few of my peirs got together as a joke and tossed a necklace of beads at me and asked if it was ok to but my land and if my mother was available, etc, etc. The people were of another religieon, and of learning of my family history threw idle conversation they took it upon themselves to try to get me to lash out and get fired, only because they did not agree with my race and religion, so please don't insult me with sophomoric jibes, it is beaneath you. You call yourself Christian, but your original thread is very Un-christian like, I don't understand why you had to resort to insult to make your point heard, and you never HAVE explained that?

Let's face it, your so-called offense is all fake. You canc are less that I said turbanhead. You're just grasping at straws to attack me because I mocked Dungy for being the first "Christian coach" to win a Super Bowl. You'ree pretty easy to see through, and I've always found that religious bigots and racists are usually the first people the throw those accusations at other people. You don't surprise me at all.
My feelings are not fake, I truly am insulted, I asked you several times to not make insults and you continued to, even lashing out at a moderator telling him to "go kick his dog" of all things. Calling me a bigot is the wrong thing, I would think on the contrary that as you stated in a previous post: "look in the mirror" YOU must be one yourself (refering to the early english record of the definition in 1598 "a superstitious hypocrite.") as a teacher I would have expected to recieve a little more of an inteligent bannter than the crass and vulgar display that you have posted recently. I feel sorry for your hatred of religion, may you find peace in your heart soon.

PD