Good thoughts my mom had.

[fleabassist1]

Now, let me start off by saying my mom is a christian with very strong beliefs, however she is also Gay. Her girlfriend is of the Wicca faith.

I asked her "Mom, how can you be a christian and a lesbian."

She replied:
"Well, I have searched the bible, I have read it four times, and I have come to an understanding. In the old testament, it condem's Gay's, compairing them to murderers. However, during his life, Jesus never once said anything about gay people. He never once condemed them."

She went on and on about what Jesus has said, and her takes on it. She got into things that I have never considered before.

Anyways, does anyone have any biblical evidence in the New Testament that condems gays?

[3 to be 4]

Originally Posted by fleabassist1

Now, let me start off by saying my mom is a christian with very strong beliefs, however she is also Gay. Her girlfriend is of the Wicca faith.

I asked her "Mom, how can you be a christian and a lesbian."

She replied:
"Well, I have searched the bible, I have read it four times, and I have come to an understanding. In the old testament, it condem's Gay's, compairing them to murderers. However, during his life, Jesus never once said anything about gay people. He never once condemed them."

She went on and on about what Jesus has said, and her takes on it. She got into things that I have never considered before.

Anyways, does anyone have any biblical evidence in the New Testament that condems gays?

First off, does that mean the Old Testament is totally discarded? That being asked, I would offer that I believe many Christians put much too much emphasis on the Gay issue. I think it has a lot to do with peoples sexual hangups that this is so prominant, and its also been fueled by right wing political concerns.

But the Bible teaches that any fornication is a sin. Heterosexual sex outside of marraige is sin. And so is arrogance. And pride. And lying. And envy. And Greed. They are all equal. No sin is worse than another. You sin in one area you are condemned. By the Law. And Jesus said we should keep the Law.

However, the good news is that Jesus death on the Cross paid the debt of all our sin. One time. Past, Present, future. Washed away clean. By accepting that gift He gave to us, repenting of our sin, asking His forgivenes, and believing on Him, we are free from condemnation. We are a new creation. We are not to sin, but now, if we do, we can go to God as a child goes to a loving parent and ask for fogiveness and it is given. This does not mean Believers can go ahead and sin freely. Hardly. We will face God in Heaven and there will be needless conflict and pain in our hearts here. But the condemnation is over.

Being Homosexual in itself is not a sin. The Homosexual act is a sin. Just as Hetorosexual sex outside of marriage. And the others I mentioned. But by believing in Jesus Christ we are forgiven.

When I first got saved I asked a Southern Baptist Pastor this question "If a Homosexual believes in Jesus Christ will He or She go to Heaven?" He was not happy with my question but he had to concede He or She would.

Just as if a Liar or an arrogant person believed in Jesus Christ, they would go to Heaven as well.

[fleabassist1]

Originally Posted by 3 to be 4

First off, does that mean the Old Testament is totally discarded? That being asked, I would offer that I believe many Christians put much too much emphasis on the Gay issue. I think it has a lot to do with peoples sexual hangups that this is so prominant, and its also been fueled by right wing political concerns.

But the Bible teaches that any fornication is a sin. Heterosexual sex outside of marraige is sin. And so is arrogance. And pride. And lying. And envy. And Greed. They are all equal. No sin is worse than another. You sin in one area you are condemned. By the Law. And Jesus said we should keep the Law.

However, the good news is that Jesus death on the Cross paid the debt of all our sin. One time. Past, Present, future. Washed away clean. By accepting that gift He gave to us, repenting of our sin, asking His forgivenes, and believing on Him, we are free from condemnation. We are a new creation. We are not to sin, but now, if we do, we can go to God as a child goes to a loving parent and ask for fogiveness and it is given. This does not mean Believers can go ahead and sin freely. Hardly. We will face God in Heaven and there will be needless conflict and pain in our hearts here. But the condemnation is over.

Being Homosexual in itself is not a sin. The Homosexual act is a sin. Just as Hetorosexual sex outside of marriage. And the others I mentioned. But by believing in Jesus Christ we are forgiven.

When I first got saved I asked a Southern Baptist Pastor this question "If a Homosexual believes in Jesus Christ will He or She go to Heaven?" He was not happy with my question but he had to concede He or She would.

Just as if a Liar or an arrogant person believed in Jesus Christ, they would go to Heaven as well.

No, not totally disreguarded - but my mom believes in Jesus's teachings moreso, I think.
Also, I think people should just let it go. If God created people as homosexuals, then he should'nt condem them. Contrary to popular belief, it is not 100% free will (Being gay). Some - a lot - of homosexuals are born homosexual.



BTW - Are you insinuating that Homosexuals are liars and arrogant people?
...
...
Kidding. I know what your saying.

[3 to be 4]

Originally Posted by fleabassist1

No, not totally disreguarded - but my mom believes in Jesus's teachings moreso, I think.
Also, I think people should just let it go. If God created people as homosexuals, then he should'nt condem them. Contrary to popular belief, it is not 100% free will (Being gay). Some - a lot - of homosexuals are born homosexual.



BTW - Are you insinuating that Homosexuals are liars and arrogant people?
...
...
Kidding. I know what your saying.

You TOTALLY missed my point. I wasnt "insinuating" anything. I was saying we are all guilty of lying and of arrogance therefore we are all sinners. No sin is greater than another so a Christian should not be judgemental of a homosexual if he himself has lied or has been arrogant.

However, that doesnt mean the act of homosexuality is not a sin. The homosexual is just as responsible for his or her sins as anyone else. I may even concede (rare for a Christian) that a homosexual is born that way.
But I was born a sinner. And I am responsible to deal with that sin.

The good news is that through Jesus Christ all the sin is forgiven. No matter your mothers sistuation, whether homosexual or not, if she has given her life to Christ, she is forgiven of her sin.

It is my opinion, and believe me, I get into it with Christians all the time about this, a person like your mother is going to Heaven. She has met the requirement. She believes in Jesus Christ as Son of God.

And just because there may be false teachings within Christianity ( not to mention sinners), it doesnt change the word of God.

Im not concerned with what religion says, I base my beliefs on the Bible and on Jesus Christ. Per Justification by Faith, Fleabassist1, I agree with your mother.

NOT because the Old Testament isnt valid, but because Jesus blood has paid for her sins, and by that im not focusing on her sexual orientation, but on ALL sin that she and all people have.

[3 to be 4]

oops. i missed the part when you said you were kidding. Oh well, I wanted to get that point across anyway, in case somebody else thought thats what i meant.

[fleabassist1]

Originally Posted by 3 to be 4

You TOTALLY missed my point. I wasnt "insinuating" anything. I was saying we are all guilty of lying and of arrogance therefore we are all sinners. No sin is greater than another so a Christian should not be judgemental of a homosexual if he himself has lied or has been arrogant.

However, that doesnt mean the act of homosexuality is not a sin. The homosexual is just as responsible for his or her sins as anyone else. I may even concede (rare for a Christian) that a homosexual is born that way.
But I was born a sinner. And I am responsible to deal with that sin.

The good news is that through Jesus Christ all the sin is forgiven. No matter your mothers sistuation, whether homosexual or not, if she has given her life to Christ, she is forgiven of her sin.

It is my opinion, and believe me, I get into it with Christians all the time about this, a person like your mother is going to Heaven. She has met the requirement. She believes in Jesus Christ as Son of God.

And just because there may be false teachings within Christianity ( not to mention sinners), it doesnt change the word of God.

Im not concerned with what religion says, I base my beliefs on the Bible and on Jesus Christ. Per Justification by Faith, Fleabassist1, I agree with your mother.

NOT because the Old Testament isnt valid, but because Jesus blood has paid for her sins, and by that im not focusing on her sexual orientation, but on ALL sin that she and all people have.

Yes, that is what she believes as well. She interprets it in a very odd way however, I don't feel like getting into it without her fully explaining it, (I don't want to say things that are not true) but she definitly has a few points on Christianity and how other religions relate to it. She was touching on something Jesus said about how everyone is saved ... except Jew's ... but don't quote me on that.

Originally Posted by 3 to be 4

oops. i missed the part when you said you were kidding. Oh well, I wanted to get that point across anyway, in case somebody else thought thats what i meant.

Haha, yeah. I was reading your previous post and I was wondering if you missed that or not :P.

[3 to be 4]

Originally Posted by fleabassist1

Yes, that is what she believes as well. She interprets it in a very odd way however, I don't feel like getting into it without her fully explaining it, (I don't want to say things that are not true) but she definitly has a few points on Christianity and how other religions relate to it. She was touching on something Jesus said about how everyone is saved ... except Jew's ... but don't quote me on that

everyone is Saved who accepts Jesus, Jew or not.

When the robber on the cross next to Jesus said "Lord, do not forget me" and acknowledged his sin, Jesus told him that he would be in paradise with Him.

Jesus did not require he join a church, get baptised, say a specific prayer, give money, help this person, help that person.

By acknowledging his own sin and calling Jesus Lord, he had a place in Heaven. Man, through Religion, has made it more much more complicated than that, which only serves the purpose of Satan.

Acknowledging your sin and striving to turn in the direction of righeousness (Repentance) and by believing that Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins, and rose again, we have eternal life.

Religious affiliation, trying to "good enough" (which NONE of us will ever be), that wont get you there. Its belief in Jesus.

[thesmee1]

I'd like to think that God loves everyone, and that all these diverse people that live on this earth are here for a reason. How people interpret the Bible, is entirely up to them. And being gay isn't a choice. I remeber my nephew as he went from a little boy to a teen, and I'd say to my mother, 'ma, he's gay.' She'd poo-poo it, but on the day of her funeral, he came out to the family. I wish he had the courage enough to come out to her.

[Tunescribe]

Originally Posted by thesmee1

I'd like to think that God loves everyone, and that all these diverse people that live on this earth are here for a reason. How people interpret the Bible, is entirely up to them. And being gay isn't a choice. I remeber my nephew as he went from a little boy to a teen, and I'd say to my mother, 'ma, he's gay.' She'd poo-poo it, but on the day of her funeral, he came out to the family. I wish he had the courage enough to come out to her.

Seems downright odd to think that God created homosexuals yet living a homosexual lifestyle is considered "sinful." Just one of the many nonsensical contradictions via fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible.

[fleabassist1]

Originally Posted by Tunescribe

Seems downright odd to think that God created homosexuals yet living a homosexual lifestyle is considered "sinful." Just one of the many nonsensical contradictions via fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible.

That's my thoughts on it as well.