Is Doc helping or hurting the young talent on the team?

[JoeSixPat]

Everyone seems to be calling for Doc's head these days.

Although I don't follow the Celts all that closely anymore, I'm not expecting that any coach is going to have these guys competeing for a Championship this year or next.

So my only real question is, is whether or not Doc is helping or hurting the development of the young talent on this team?

Are they developing and getting better, or are they remaining static?

I don't discount that learning to win can also be a big part of a players's development, and lord knows there's not been enough of that this year, but all I care about is whether or not Doc is the right teacher to make sure that these years with so many losses are worth it down the road.

If the organization thinks that a better coach can be a better teacher and make the players work harder on their own development, then they should get that person in here and get rid of Doc.

Otherwise, Doc should stay.

[maverick4]

It is well documented that Doc is a horrible in-game strategist. However, I also believe he is not a good teacher of young players. I haven't seen much coaching-related young player growth in the past few years.

I think Doc's strong points are that the players like him, and he is a smooth media talker.

If I could, I would fire Doc immediately. I still watch the games regularly and frankly Doc's abilities cause much frustration as a fan.

[BradyManny2344]

The "Fire Doc" stuff is 90% nonsense. The one thing that bothers me is that he says players like Green or Al Jefferson have to earn their minutes in practice - the problem is, these guys need to get in the game to learn. If we're committing to rebuilding, these guys have to get 30 minutes each game no matter the outcome.

But other than that, we simply don't have enough talent right now to compete - not yet. This team is what it is, and what it has been for about the last dozen or so years: Entertaining mediocrity. The team has gotten more exciting and more fun the past few years, but the results aren't getting better.

It's at the point where I still watch every game, but all I'm hoping for is an entertaining game where we're in it down the stretch - and hey, the C's have provided that the past few seasons, so I can't complain.

Again, this team is NOT underachieving under Doc. He's not a great coach, but he's not the reason this team has struggled. It's young and it may grow into something special or it may not. We'll see. Personally, I'd pull the trigger on an AI deal just so we can become a respectable franchise again and maybe contend within the next three years.

My biggest fear is Big Al and Green turn into stars and go for more money on another team in 2 and 3 years respectively when their contracts are up. No one is going to want to stay on the Celtics unless they are a respectable contender again, a trade for Iverson would do that - problem is, it might require Green or Al.

They're in a tough spot, perennially middle of the pack - middle of the pack team means middle round draft picks means middle of the pack team - an endless cycle. We gotta break it somehow, but I'm just glad it's not up to me to make these decisions!

[BradyManny2344]

Also - I don't like their style of team defense. It just hasn't worked and maybe it's the players, but I don't like it - it's too much like zone in its philosophy of "let's do what's easiest short term and worry about the rest of the play later" most notably in that they seldom fight picks.

Yes, it's much easier to switch on picks, but that doesn't make it better - it lets the offense dictate the matchups and as a result, we have 6 foot point guards guarding 6'10 power forwards on a regular basis. If they simply fought picks and played straight up man, they'd be a much better defensive team.

I understand that this style of team defense they play is intended to generate turnovers, but it hasn't been working, and it should've long been abandoned.

[JoeSixPat]

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

The "Fire Doc" stuff is 90% nonsense. The one thing that bothers me is that he says players like Green or Al Jefferson have to earn their minutes in practice - the problem is, these guys need to get in the game to learn. If we're committing to rebuilding, these guys have to get 30 minutes each game no matter the outcome.

But other than that, we simply don't have enough talent right now to compete - not yet. This team is what it is, and what it has been for about the last dozen or so years: Entertaining mediocrity. The team has gotten more exciting and more fun the past few years, but the results aren't getting better.

It's at the point where I still watch every game, but all I'm hoping for is an entertaining game where we're in it down the stretch - and hey, the C's have provided that the past few seasons, so I can't complain.

Again, this team is NOT underachieving under Doc. He's not a great coach, but he's not the reason this team has struggled. It's young and it may grow into something special or it may not. We'll see. Personally, I'd pull the trigger on an AI deal just so we can become a respectable franchise again and maybe contend within the next three years.

My biggest fear is Big Al and Green turn into stars and go for more money on another team in 2 and 3 years respectively when their contracts are up. No one is going to want to stay on the Celtics unless they are a respectable contender again, a trade for Iverson would do that - problem is, it might require Green or Al.

They're in a tough spot, perennially middle of the pack - middle of the pack team means middle round draft picks means middle of the pack team - an endless cycle. We gotta break it somehow, but I'm just glad it's not up to me to make these decisions!

It's really a tough line to walk - what does he "teach" if he puts guys into games who haven't earned their minutes?

I guess the thing to do is make clear that hard work is what gets you minutes - not necessarilly performance alone

But again, I'm not concerned about win loss record though I know many are - I want to see these guys develop into the best players they can be as quickly as is reasonable to expect.

If Doc's not the guy for that job and is causing more harm than good, and we can get someone better - do it - get them, fire him.

But if not, firing him because of Wins and Losses makes no sense to me.

[BradyManny2344]

Originally Posted by JoeSixPat

It's really a tough line to walk - what does he "teach" if he puts guys into games who haven't earned their minutes?

I just think that as an athlete, no matter what sport - you learn SO much faster in the real situation, in a game, match, tournament, whatever - than you do in practice.

These guys are playing 3 times a week and traveling around the country non stop, there practices can't be that intense, and in fact, they aren't that intense. So, to learn, they need minutes. Just look at the strides Big Al has made in the past week or so simply b/c he's getting the minutes. It's easily the fastest way to learn. I understand the argument that it's sending them the wrong message to play them whether they've earned it or not, but that has to take a back seat to the reality that if Al Jefferson and Gerald Green aren't our future, then we're going to be waiting even longer for #17.

The thing about the C's right now, is they have the luxury of playing these young guys and dealing with the consequences of losing. We aren't going to contend for a title this year, why not play the young guys and let them learn?

Honestly though, I have no way of telling how Doc is handling these guys b/c I'm not sure of their potential - I think Green and Al are the only ones with real upside and it's too early to judge them.