More on fire for the Lord than ever

[3 to be 4]

the last 2 days have convinced me more than ever how messed up things really are. Up is down. Right is wrong. wrong is Right.

Pornography is ok
a right winger calling Democrats traitors and communists is ok
liberals calling for the President to go to a firing squad is ok
someone calling people who believe in God stupid and other swear words is ok

but praise the lord and everything is getting ruined!!! oh my

Has anybody really looked at the state of our world, looked at what our kids are getting bombarded with? the suicide rate? the abortion rate? the rate that young girls are getting raped?

You think thats because of too much God?

Now, im no Republican, so this isnt a political comment, ( i actualy lean more Democrat, although i disagree on the abortion issue)

this is a social comment. anyone who thinks society is heading in the right direction is out of their minds. And its not because God is too prevelant.

this Grogan issue and the reactions on this board, at least the ones doing the posting (other than Shmessy, who had the character to call Grogan's actions what they were), only give me more resolve to continue.

I know that meaness, cruelty, and rudeness is popular,both in our culture, and on this board, buts its not right, and it doesnt change the fact that God is in control and Jesus Christs victory has already been won.

[HAMMERMILL]

the last 2 days have convinced me more than ever how messed up things really are. Up is down. Right is wrong. wrong is Right.

Pornography is ok
a right winger calling Democrats traitors and communists is ok
liberals calling for the President to go to a firing squad is ok
someone calling people who believe in God stupid and other swear words is ok

but praise the lord and everything is getting ruined!!! oh my

Has anybody really looked at the state of our world, looked at what our kids are getting bombarded with? the suicide rate? the abortion rate? the rate that young girls are getting raped?

You think thats because of too much God?

Now, im no Republican, so this isnt a political comment, ( i actualy lean more Democrat, although i disagree on the abortion issue)

this is a social comment. anyone who thinks society is heading in the right direction is out of their minds. And its not because God is too prevelant.

this Grogan issue and the reactions on this board, at least the ones doing the posting (other than Shmessy, who had the character to call Grogan's actions what they were), only give me more resolve to continue.

I know that meaness, cruelty, and rudeness is popular,both in our culture, and on this board, buts its not right, and it doesnt change the fact that God is in control and Jesus Christs victory has already been won.

No disputing how messed up things are In the world,and faith can be a wonderful thing.
The only issue as I see it with discussing religion in a forum like this is,religion is faith based.
I, nor you could prove the existance or disprove the existance .
I have my beliefs,and you have yours and some have none.
We'll all find out one way or another in the end.
Good luck with your journey:)

[grogan2767]

Come on out of the Matrix dude. I was just like you actually. I used to go ESPN messageboards and preach Christ, before I finally admitted to myself that the Christ of the Evenagelical church does not line up with the Yaweh/Jehova/Christ of the scripture.

I predict you will be out of the cult. You are still on fire, becuase you are a baby Christian, and still don't know that much. You are silly and naive, avoid legit questions, and accuse ME of not reading the Bible, when it is clear you have no clue about the Bible, thoelogy, or the Christian faith.

You will come out of the cult.

http://www.ex-christian.net/

PS. I have been involved in Chrisitan apologetics (do you even know what apologetics are?) and around apologetics for 20 years. I have read Lee Stroble's "Case for Christ", Josh McDowell "Evidense that demands a verdict", "More than a Carpernter" etc) They all fail miserably as do you.


the last 2 days have convinced me more than ever how messed up things really are. Up is down. Right is wrong. wrong is Right.

Pornography is ok
a right winger calling Democrats traitors and communists is ok
liberals calling for the President to go to a firing squad is ok
someone calling people who believe in God stupid and other swear words is ok

but praise the lord and everything is getting ruined!!! oh my

Has anybody really looked at the state of our world, looked at what our kids are getting bombarded with? the suicide rate? the abortion rate? the rate that young girls are getting raped?

You think thats because of too much God?

Now, im no Republican, so this isnt a political comment, ( i actualy lean more Democrat, although i disagree on the abortion issue)

this is a social comment. anyone who thinks society is heading in the right direction is out of their minds. And its not because God is too prevelant.

this Grogan issue and the reactions on this board, at least the ones doing the posting (other than Shmessy, who had the character to call Grogan's actions what they were), only give me more resolve to continue.

I know that meaness, cruelty, and rudeness is popular,both in our culture, and on this board, buts its not right, and it doesnt change the fact that God is in control and Jesus Christs victory has already been won.

[Clonamery]

......it doesnt change the fact that God is in control and Jesus Christs victory has already been won.

Thank God! I was worried things could get worse.

[3 to be 4]

Come on out of the Matrix dude. I was just like you actually. I used to go ESPN messageboards and preach Christ, before I finally admitted to myself that the Christ of the Evenagelical church does not line up with the Yaweh/Jehova/Christ of the scripture.

I predict you will be out of the cult. You are still on fire, becuase you are a baby Christian, and still don't know that much. You are silly and naive, avoid legit questions, and accuse ME of not reading the Bible, when it is clear you have no clue about the Bible, thoelogy, or the Christian faith.

You will come out of the cult.

http://www.ex-christian.net/

PS. I have been involved in Chrisitan apologetics (do you even know what apologetics are?) and around apologetics for 20 years. I have read Lee Stroble's "Case for Christ", Josh McDowell "Evidense that demands a verdict", "More than a Carpernter" etc) They all fail miserably as do you.

I thought God didnt exist? So if He doesnt exist whats this imaginary Christianity I dont understand?

Why the hatred anyway, what happened in year 22?

[grogan2767]

Exactly! Imaginary. But I do know more about the Bible than you.

What about you? What happened in year 2? Did the Pastor take your diapers off yet?

I thought God didnt exist? So if He doesnt exist whats this imaginary Christianity I dont understand?

Why the hatred anyway, what happened in year 22?

[grogan2767]

Also, I already answered your silly question in detail in another thread. Unlike you I address the questions posted to me. You don't becuase you religion is indefinsible.

I thought God didnt exist? So if He doesnt exist whats this imaginary Christianity I dont understand?

Why the hatred anyway, what happened in year 22?

[grogan2767]

"More on fire than ever" LOL then ever, over these long last 2 long years of your life? LOL!!

the last 2 days have convinced me more than ever how messed up things really are. Up is down. Right is wrong. wrong is Right.

Pornography is ok
a right winger calling Democrats traitors and communists is ok
liberals calling for the President to go to a firing squad is ok
someone calling people who believe in God stupid and other swear words is ok

but praise the lord and everything is getting ruined!!! oh my

Has anybody really looked at the state of our world, looked at what our kids are getting bombarded with? the suicide rate? the abortion rate? the rate that young girls are getting raped?

You think thats because of too much God?

Now, im no Republican, so this isnt a political comment, ( i actualy lean more Democrat, although i disagree on the abortion issue)

this is a social comment. anyone who thinks society is heading in the right direction is out of their minds. And its not because God is too prevelant.

this Grogan issue and the reactions on this board, at least the ones doing the posting (other than Shmessy, who had the character to call Grogan's actions what they were), only give me more resolve to continue.

I know that meaness, cruelty, and rudeness is popular,both in our culture, and on this board, buts its not right, and it doesnt change the fact that God is in control and Jesus Christs victory has already been won.

[3 to be 4]

"More on fire than ever" LOL then ever, over these long last 2 long years of your life? LOL!!

please keep talking. Your class and warmth just draws me to your ways.

more than likely your were asked to leave your church is your demeanor was anything like this. Do you go to funerals and call people stupid for praying?

[BruschiOnTap]

You think society is getting worse than what? When has society ever been perfect? If anything, it's not getting better or worse at the moment because we still have a bunch of idiots who believe in crap like 'creationism' and America is God's chosen nation (because even though He is omnipotent he decided he no longer wanted to transcend man-made borders). Seriously, NPR reported that 50% of Americans refute evolution. That means 150 million people in the richest (read: should be most educated) nation on earth think biology is static because the Bible says so. I'm with you now, society is getting worse, but only because people still think the Bible is true

[3 to be 4]

hmmm. the downside of the reconfiguration of the website.

the return to the top of Grogan threads.

im not into debating this stuff anymore. If you actually think the world is a safer, saner, and people in general have more common decency than, say 20 or 30 years ago, and the only thing making some things worse is the Bible, than theres not much that anything i can say will change that. Maybe you are 22 or something and think this is the way it should be.

anyways, I wish you well

[fleabassist1]

hmmm. the downside of the reconfiguration of the website.

the return to the top of Grogan threads.

im not into debating this stuff anymore. If you actually think the world is a safer, saner, and people in general have have common decency than, say 20 or 30 years ago, and the only thing making some things worse is the Bible, than theres not much that anything i can will change that. Maybe you are 22 or something and think this is the way it should be.

anyways, I wish you well


I don't believe that society is getting worse.


Question for you, 3 to be 4:
How come generally good people, people who give to charity, people who love and care for others, people who try not to wrong and always do the right thing... people who may be Muslim, Buddhist, Pagan, Hindu, Etc (Not Christian) ... how come those people go to hell if they do not believe in Christ?

[3 to be 4]

I don't believe that society is getting worse.


Question for you, 3 to be 4:
How come generally good people, people who give to charity, people who love and care for others, people who try not to wrong and always do the right thing... people who may be Muslim, Buddhist, Pagan, Hindu, Etc (Not Christian) ... how come those people go to hell if they do not believe in Christ?

Because thats what the Bible says.

[fleabassist1]

Because thats what the Bible says.

Wow, sucks for them I guess. Can't say that's me, was just wondering.

[Tunescribe]

Because thats what the Bible says.

No, that is WHAT YOU INTERPRET the Bible to say. (Sorry, couldn't resist responding to your sheer lunacy now that it's been moved to a more proper forum.) To believe that God-loving people of other faiths are doomed to hell because they never had a chance in their lives to be exposed to Christianity or chose not to adopt it is beyond insane, bordering on evil, and downright dangerous.

There are many devout Christians, just as blessed and worthy as you believe yourself to be, who disagree with your fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible and consequently insane, anti-spiritual/pro-religionist perspectives. Much of what you believe breeds judgment, intolerance, control and hatred, not love, support and enlightenment. The fact you cannot see this speaks to how utterly brainwashed you truly are.

Now that you have your own space for proslytizing, please try to do so with a sense of responsibility and open-mindedness/open heartedness for the views of others who innocently might believe they can engage you in reasonable discussion. You do not represent Christianity or the spirit of Jesus, you represent extreme, fundamental, fear-based religionism. Perhaps you can make that clear from the outset.

[fleabassist1]

No, that is WHAT YOU INTERPRET the Bible to say. (Sorry, couldn't resist responding to your sheer lunacy now that it's been moved to a more proper forum.)

There are many devout Christians, just as blessed and worthy as you believe yourself to be, who disagree with your fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible and consequently insane, anti-spiritual/pro-religionist perspectives. Much of what you believe breeds judgment, control and hatred, not love, support and enlightenment. The fact you cannot see this speaks to how utterly brainwashed you are.



However, the same goes for all fundamentalist religions.

[Tunescribe]

However, the same goes for all fundamentalist religions.

Very true. If our brainwashed friend had half a wit he'd be able to see where he is by means of comparison. But of course, everyone else is going to hell so he's absolved from paying attention long enough to learn something.

[3 to be 4]

Very true. If our brainwashed friend had half a wit he'd be able to see where he is by means of comparison. But of course, everyone else is going to hell so he's absolved from paying attention long enough to learn something.


its interesting who is doing the angry accusations and who isnt.

You call me a "lunatic" for interpreting what the Bible states pretty clearly. Where, exactly, in the Bible does Jesus say, "there are many ways to Heaven"? Where does Paul say "Good works are good enough, you dont need Jesus"? You react as if millions of Christians just make this up out of thin air to be "intolerant" and "hateful".

And what if it is all true? What is mans sin has seperated him from God but that in one act it was all forgiven? And all that was asked was belief in Jesus Christ? Just laying aside all the ego, all the pride, and just accepting Christs gift of His blood on the Cross as payment for all of our sin. All of it washed away.
What if it was true? Who is asking for more? God, who now forgives everything? Or Man, whose pride and ego is so determined to not even consider this, but feels it necessary to call those that believe "lunatics"?

I'll boldly say it again and again, Jesus Christ is Lord.

And how have I harmed you?

Did those words condemn you to Hell? People on this website say all kinds of things to each other and about other people. But me saying Jesus is Lord stirs up a passionate fury like nothing else.

Why? Its because evil knows the power of God. And in a culture where evil is accepted as the norm, the light of God will stir up rage.

Ive traveled a lot and I have posted a lot all over this country. And its interesting to me how on every other site in every other part of this country there is free thinking , cordial, and interesting discussion that takes place between believers and non-believers. And I dont know the percentage of participants of Patsfan.com who actually live in New England, but I do know that this is only place Ive talked of Jesus Christ that it has generated such across the board hostility, rage, and downright hatred.

That just serves to confirm the need to keep talking of Jesus Christ here.

And the barbs and the insults only fire me up more, because it means im hitting on something here. I ,again, force not a thing on anyone. And its certainly not fringe "lunatic" thinking. The Bible has stood every test. And God reigns supreme.

Jesus Christ died on the Cross for all of our sins and rose again three days later. He is the Son of God. And He who believes on Him shall have everlasting life.

That is what the Bible says.

If you disagree you are free to do so.

The anger and the insults are more a reflection of the one hurling them than they are about me, Christianity, or Jesus Christ.

[Tunescribe]

Ive traveled a lot and I have posted a lot all over this country. And its interesting to me how on every other site in every other part of this country there is free thinking , cordial, and interesting discussion that takes place between believers and non-believers. And I dont know the percentage of participants of Patsfan.com who actually live in New England, but I do know that this is only place Ive talked of Jesus Christ that it has generated such across the board hostility, rage, and downright hatred.

And perhaps that is because you are an extremist who is dangerously out of step with mainstream Christianity. The others on this messageboard are smart enough to discern that and are calling you on it.

YOU are the one preaching intolerance and hatred via non-spiritual religionism. YOU are the one who insanely believes that God-loving people of other faiths will burn in hell for eternity. Mindful, aware, discerning Christians do not believe that and do not blindly follow a literal/fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible, as do you. Your way of believing has been responsible for much death, destruction, pain and sorrow down through the ages. THAT is what people are rightfully and righteously rejecting here, not Jesus and not God.

[3 to be 4]

And perhaps that is because you are an extremist who is dangerously out of step with mainstream Christianity. The others on this messageboard are smart enough to discern that and are calling you on it.

YOU are the one preaching intolerance and hatred via non-spiritual religionism. YOU are the one who insanely believes that God-loving people of other faiths will burn in hell for eternity. Mindful, aware, discerning Christians do not believe that and do not blindly follow a literal/fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible, as do you. Your way of believing has been responsible for much death, destruction, pain and sorrow down through the ages. THAT is what people are rightfully and righteously rejecting here, not Jesus and not God.

So everybody else in the country are "extremists" for be being able to hear the message of the Gospel without freaking out, but New England Patriot fans are SO evolved and brilliant that they see the "hatred" behind my words?

Mindful and aware Christians all over the world believe the Bible, they dont water down the message in order to not offend the senses of others.

Are you afraid that if you believed in Jesus Christ that you would suddenly get the urge to go inflict "death,destruction,pain and sorrow"? That characterization is a bigoted, mean, and intolerant smear of every Bible believing Christian.

You are ignorant of what you speak. Spend some time at an Evangelical Church or go to a worship event with a thousand Christian young adult and tell me how "violent" or "hateful" they are. People who have devoted their lives to living out the love in Jesus Christ, going on mission trips to help the poorest people with food and encouragement. And compare them with what the world is offering to the non-believing young adults and how they are turning out. Tell me which set of 20 year olds would help you if you were in trouble.

No, you can always site examples of bad things done by every group of people. But to say that believers of Jesus Christ who believe what the Word of God says, that He is the way, the truth, and the life, that those people are inherantly dangerous and predisposed to destruction, that in itself is dangerous and evil.

You need to be a little more responsible with the words you are using. You are showing your intolerance by your own reaction to nothing more than a proclamation of belief.

I'll say it plainly. I have not forced a thing on you and neither does God. He offers Salvation. Those who dont accept it make their own choice. But my words dont wish any harm on you and God wishes no harm on you.

Maybe New Englanders, or at least Patriots fans for some reason, have a reaction like no other part of the country, not because you are so "brilliant" and everybody else is a "lunatic", but maybe its because the words convict your heart, because the Gospel of Jesus Christ cuts through the evil that marks the rejection of God that so permeates the region.

You need to get out more if you believe that true belief of Jesus Christ brings about anything but love.


Let me ask you a question. You are sure that its about being good. that good people dont go to hell. Do they go to Heaven then? And if theres a Heaven like in the movies...where does this idea of Heaven come from?
the Bible, maybe? So it might be a good idea to read the Bible and find out what it actually takes to get there, not how you think it should be, not how a group of "Christians" say it is, not what one denomination says, but how the book that it actually came from describes it to be.

And if you reject what I say after reading the Bible, then understand its not about me being an extremist, or Evangelical Christianity being a "lunatic" fringe, its about a reasonable, thoughfully researched rejection of the Bible.

That I can respect. That is real discussion and discourse amongst mature individuals.

The insults and accusations reveal otherwise.

[Tunescribe]

its interesting who is doing the angry accusations and who isnt.

You call me a "lunatic" for interpreting what the Bible states pretty clearly. Where, exactly, in the Bible does Jesus say, "there are many ways to Heaven"? Where does Paul say "Good works are good enough, you dont need Jesus"? You react as if millions of Christians just make this up out of thin air to be "intolerant" and "hateful".

And what if it is all true? What is mans sin has seperated him from God but that in one act it was all forgiven? And all that was asked was belief in Jesus Christ? Just laying aside all the ego, all the pride, and just accepting Christs gift of His blood on the Cross as payment for all of our sin. All of it washed away.
What if it was true? Who is asking for more? God, who now forgives everything? Or Man, whose pride and ego is so determined to not even consider this, but feels it necessary to call those that believe "lunatics"?

I'll boldly say it again and again, Jesus Christ is Lord.

And how have I harmed you?

Did those words condemn you to Hell? People on this website say all kinds of things to each other and about other people. But me saying Jesus is Lord stirs up a passionate fury like nothing else.

Why? Its because evil knows the power of God. And in a culture where evil is accepted as the norm, the light of God will stir up rage.

Ive traveled a lot and I have posted a lot all over this country. And its interesting to me how on every other site in every other part of this country there is free thinking , cordial, and interesting discussion that takes place between believers and non-believers. And I dont know the percentage of participants of Patsfan.com who actually live in New England, but I do know that this is only place Ive talked of Jesus Christ that it has generated such across the board hostility, rage, and downright hatred.

That just serves to confirm the need to keep talking of Jesus Christ here.

And the barbs and the insults only fire me up more, because it means im hitting on something here. I ,again, force not a thing on anyone. And its certainly not fringe "lunatic" thinking. The Bible has stood every test. And God reigns supreme.

Jesus Christ died on the Cross for all of our sins and rose again three days later. He is the Son of God. And He who believes on Him shall have everlasting life.

That is what the Bible says.

If you disagree you are free to do so.

The anger and the insults are more a reflection of the one hurling them than they are about me, Christianity, or Jesus Christ.

OK, I want to help. Here is where your literal interpretation of the Bible has you off-track: It is not belief in Jesus "the man" or even Jesus "the son of God" that promises salvation, it is ADHERENCE TO the spiritual principles of life he espoused and lived by example. You are so hung up on the literal mechanics of religion that the spiritual significance it contains is lost to you. Hence a person can be steadfastly religious and spiritually bereft, as you personally demonstrate.

These principles espoused by Jesus are universal to most of the world's great religions and are no less relevant in terms of spiritual evolution and God-realization because of whatever guise or form the messenger takes. Jesus is a conduit to spiritual communion with God, not the end-source you suggest the Bible says. Jesus is the "finger," pointing "the way." Take your gaze off the finger and look to where it's pointing! Then, you just might "get" what being a man of God is truly all about.

Until then, you'll be just another religionist automaton parroting what someone else convinced him to blindly accept as the truth.

[Tunescribe]

So everybody else in the country are "extremists" for be being able to hear the message of the Gospel without freaking out, but New England Patriot fans are SO evolved and brilliant that they see the "hatred" behind my words?

Mindful and aware Christians all over the world believe the Bible, they dont water down the message in order to not offend the senses of others.

Are you afraid that if you believed in Jesus Christ that you would suddenly get the urge to go inflict "death,destruction,pain and sorrow"? That characterization is a bigoted, mean, and intolerant smear of every Bible believing Christian.

You are ignorant of what you speak. Spend some time at an Evangelical Church or go to a worship event with a thousand Christian young adult and tell me how "violent" or "hateful" they are. People who have devoted their lives to living out the love in Jesus Christ, going on mission trips to help the poorest people with food and encouragement. And compare them with what the world is offering to the non-believing young adults and how they are turning out. Tell me which set of 20 year olds would help you if you were in trouble.

No, you can always site examples of bad things done by every group of people. But to say that believers of Jesus Christ who believe what the Word of God says, that He is the way, the truth, and the life, that those people are inherantly dangerous and predisposed to destruction, that in itself is dangerous and evil.

You need to be a little more responsible with the words you are using. You are showing your intolerance by your own reaction to nothing more than a proclamation of belief.

I'll say it plainly. I have not forced a thing on you and neither does God. He offers Salvation. Those who dont accept it make their own choice. But my words dont wish any harm on you and God wishes no harm on you.

Maybe New Englanders, or at least Patriots fans for some reason, have a reaction like no other part of the country, not because you are so "brilliant" and everybody else is a "lunatic", but maybe its because the words convict your heart, because the Gospel of Jesus Christ cuts through the evil that marks the rejection of God that so permeates the region.

You need to get out more if you believe that true belief of Jesus Christ brings about anything but love.


Let me ask you a question. You are sure that its about being good. that good people dont go to hell. Do they go to Heaven then? And if theres a Heaven like in the movies...where does this idea of Heaven come from?
the Bible, maybe? So it might be a good idea to read the Bible and find out what it actually takes to get there, not how you think it should be, not how a group of "Christians" say it is, not what one denomination says, but how the book that it actually came from describes it to be.

And if you reject what I say after reading the Bible, then understand its not about me being an extremist, or Evangelical Christianity being a "lunatic" fringe, its about a reasonable, thoughfully researched rejection of the Bible.

That I can respect. That is real discussion and discourse amongst mature individuals.

The insults and accusations reveal otherwise.

There is much, much danger, my friend, in erroneously believing that God would condemn countless innocent souls to eternal torment because they never were exposed to Christian religion. Millions have died at the hands of evangelical religionists who believed the exact same thing.

Many Christians have embraced the spiritual intent of their religion and have led inspired lives. Other fundamental religionists who call themselves Christian remain ignorantly and rigidly tied to a self-limiting, fear-based belief system that is anything but spiritual.

[3 to be 4]

OK, I want to help. Here is where your literal interpretation of the Bible has you off-track: It is not belief in Jesus "the man" or even Jesus "the son of God" that promises salvation, it is ADHERENCE TO the spiritual principles of life he espoused and lived by example. You are so hung up on the literal mechanics of religion that the spiritual significance it contains is lost to you. Hence a person can be steadfastly religious and spiritually bereft, as you personally demonstrate.

These principles espoused by Jesus are universal to most of the world's great religions and are no less relevant in terms of spiritual evolution and God-realization because of whatever guise or form the messenger takes. Jesus is a conduit to spiritual communion with God, not the end-source you suggest the Bible says. Jesus is the "finger," pointing "the way." Take your gaze off the finger and look to where it's pointing! Then, you just might "get" what being a man of God is truly all about.

Until then, you'll be just another religionist automaton parroting what someone else convinced him to blindly accept as the truth.

The first sentence. What verse? When did Jesus say what you said. He did, in fact give us lots of principles to live by. But its all over the scripture that he clearly claimed divinity, He clearly said it was through Him, and Pauls letters, among other things teach Justification by Faith.

And your last sentence.. On one hand, you tell me im a "lunatic" out of step with other Christians. Now you are saying im "just another..." which is it?

And who convinced you to blindly believe your truth?

[Tunescribe]

The first sentence. What verse? When did Jesus say what you said.

Here you go, hung up on the "literal" once again. God blessed you with a brain, try using it. Have you ever read anything in the Bible and your intuition tells you, "This just doesn't make sense"? When that happens, trust what you feel, then open yourself directly to God for clarification. If your intention is pure, it will come to you.

He did, in fact give us lots of principles to live by. But its all over the scripture that he clearly claimed divinity, He clearly said it was through Him

Yes! Through him = by his teachings and life example. Whether he claimed divinity is beside the point as I stated earlier. If that helps lend weight to the message in your estimation, then fine. However you get to the point of taking the message seriously doesn't matter, it remains the message and how you internalize/apply it that REALLY counts.


And your last sentence ... On one hand, you tell me im a "lunatic" out of step with other Christians. Now you are saying im "just another..." which is it?

There was no difference -- you are a fundamental religionist, not a spiritual Christian.

And who convinced you to blindly believe your truth?

I blindly believe no one. I rely upon spiritual guidance directly from God.

[3 to be 4]

There is much, much danger, my friend, in erroneously believing that God would condemn countless innocent souls to eternal torment because they never were exposed to Christian religion. Millions have died at the hands of evangelical religionists who believed the exact same thing.

Many Christians have embraced the spiritual intent of their religion and have led inspired lives. Other fundamental religionists who call themselves Christian remain ignorantly and rigidly tied to a self-limiting, fear-based belief system that is anything but spiritual.

People condemn themselves. God offers Salvation. Millions more have died at the hands of Godless people. And I offer to you that those who commited atrocities in the name of God, were certainly not being obediant to the teaching of Jesus Christ. This is why the most dangerous Christian is the one who DOES NOT base it on a strict reading of the Bible, but bases it on man made religion, the so-called, softer, more palatable for the masses brand. following "the church" or a "religion" is of man and will lead to disaster. But follow Jesus Christ and its clear you cannot reconcile violent and forcible behavior.

[3 to be 4]

Here you go, hung up on the "literal" once again. God blessed you with a brain, try using it. Have you ever read anything in the Bible and your intuition tells you, "This just doesn't make sense"? When that happens, trust what you feel, then open yourself directly to God for clarification. If your intention is pure, it will come to you.



Yes! Through him = by his teachings and life example.




There was no difference -- you are a fundamental religionist



I blindly believe no one. I rely upon spiritual guidance directly from God.
Here you go, hung up on the "literal" once again. God blessed you with a brain, try using it. Have you ever read anything in the Bible and your intuition tells you, "This just doesn't make sense"? When that happens, trust what you feel, then open yourself directly to God for clarification. If your intention is pure, it will come to you.
God blessed you with a brain, try using it? Why would I follow someone with such "peace" that you feel you have to insult people? no, thanks.

Yes! Through him = by his teachings and life example
that is not what he said for us to do only. follow his teaching yes but believe and trust in Him, accept Him as the Son of God is center to his teachings

There was no difference -- you are a fundamental religionist
Unless im the only fundamentalist your original point makes no sense

I blindly believe no one. I rely upon spiritual guidance directly from God
Good for you. I didnt personally call you out and tell you you were insane for your beliefs. If you dont agree with me move on to another thread. If you feel strong enough about your beliefs start your own thread. If you wish to have a respectful dialogue that is fine too. But you have been compelled to throw out insults and bigoted generalizations about millions of people and only reveal yourself as someone not sure footed enough in his own beliefs to be tolerant of those who believe what the Bible teaches.

[Tunescribe]

... and only reveal yourself as someone not sure footed enough in his own beliefs to be tolerant of those who believe what the Bible teaches.[/B]

To the contrary, I was caring and "tolerant" enough in your case to help show where religionism has detoured you past the experience of genuine spirituality. Personally, I see the concept of "belief" as irrelevant to knowing God's love and guidance. That's for folks like you to wrangle with, I suppose. But back to your point, yes, I do have trouble accepting the pain, fear, judgment and ignorance perpetuated by fundamental religionists in the name of God. Sometimes my sense of fairness compels me to speak up. And when I see someone perversely misrepresent God as condemner of innocent souls for simply not being exposed to Christianity, yeah, it really bugs me.

[3 to be 4]

To the contrary, I was caring and "tolerant" enough in your case to help show where religionism has detoured you past the experience of genuine spirituality. Personally, I see the concept of "belief" as irrelevant to knowing God's love and guidance. That's for folks like you to wrangle with, I suppose. But back to your point, yes, I do have trouble accepting the pain, fear, judgment and ignorance perpetuated by fundamental religionists in the name of God. Sometimes my sense of fairness compels me to speak up. And when I see someone perversely misrepresent God as condemner of innocent souls for simply not being exposed to Christianity, yeah, it really bugs me.

this is your idea of "caring" and "help". No thank you.

"ignorance" "perversely" these are not words of a caring heart.

YOU have misrepresented what it means to believe in Jesus Christ and the Word of the Bible. You do this with your own fear, pain, judgement. I wont use the word ignorant, because it is very disrespectful.

you say belief is irrelevant. That makes any kind of spiritual life based on yourself and your own whims of the day. To me, thats not a solid foundation.

But it is your right. If the truth about what the Bible has to say "bugs" you, then perhaps you can move on without continuing this misrepresentation of God. God provides salvation. the seperation from Him is what causes the condemnation. And the seperation is caused by mans own choice.

[3 to be 4]

the forces of Evil will focus on the seperation from God issue to keep people away from the true message of the Gospel, an eternal place with God in Heaven. God loved us enough to provide a way to Salvation. All our sins are forgiven through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross so that we may all have eternal life. There is no greater love than that.

[Tunescribe]

... you say belief is irrelevant. That makes any kind of spiritual life based on yourself and your own whims of the day. To me, thats not a solid foundation.

This is incomprehensible to you because you have had no direct experience of God's divine guidance; you are blinded by the mechanics of a religious belief system. As I implored you earlier, take your gaze off the finger and LOOK TO WHERE IT IS POINTING! Any notion of a spiritual life based on one's own self and "whims of the day" is inherently contradictory (at least in my experience). And in your case -- in the context of this discussion as applied to what I've been trying to share with you in good faith -- narrow-minded, judgmental, and downright insulting. But that's in keeping with what I would expect from someone such as yourself.

If the truth about what the Bible has to say "bugs" you, then perhaps you can move on without continuing this misrepresentation of God. God provides salvation. the seperation from Him is what causes the condemnation. And the seperation is caused by mans own choice.

My friend, it is YOU who is separated from knowing God by holding steadfast to earthly perspectives born of fear, chosen ignorance, and institutionalized brainwashing. This is reflected in your dangerously flawed interpretation of the Bible. You are rich in religionism and spiritually impoverished, and I'm truly sorry for you. What you've done is the spiritual equivalent of spending so much money on the grocery store that you can't afford the vitally nourishing food within.

With that, I will once again leave you to your sadly myopic way of being and exit this discussion. I thought I'd try once again to reach you, but unfortunately can't get past the blinders shuttering your heart and mind in the name of religionism. I just couldn't help myself after seeing someone wrongly portray God the way you have. I wish you well, because I think you do mean well however misguided you happen to be.

[3 to be 4]

This is incomprehensible to you because you have had no direct experience of God's divine guidance; you are blinded by the mechanics of a religious belief system. As I implored you earlier, take your gaze off the finger and LOOK TO WHERE IT IS POINTING! Any notion of a spiritual life based on one's own self and "whims of the day" is inherently contradictory (at least in my experience). And in your case -- in the context of this discussion as applied to what I've been trying to share with you in good faith -- narrow-minded, judgmental, and downright insulting. But that's in keeping with what I would expect from someone such as yourself.



My friend, it is YOU who is separated from knowing God by holding steadfast to earthly perspectives born of fear, chosen ignorance, and institutionalized brainwashing. This is reflected in your dangerously flawed interpretation of the Bible. You are rich in religionism and spiritually impoverished, and I'm truly sorry for you. What you've done is the spiritual equivalent of spending so much money on the grocery store that you can't afford the vitally nourishing food within.

With that, I will once again leave you to your sadly myopic way of being and exit this discussion. I thought I'd try once again to reach you, but unfortunately can't get past the blinders shuttering your heart and mind in the name of religionism. I just couldn't help myself after seeing someone wrongly portray God the way you have. I wish you well, because I think you do mean well however misguided you happen to be.

How do you make this leap, that I have no direct experience of Gods divine guidance? If you've read my posts I have indeed talked of how I came to know Jesus Christ. It wasnt just from a book, an intellectual decision based on weighing some facts. It was a personal, very powerful moment, and I continue to have a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit on a daily, on an hourly, and sometimes by the minute basis.

I have no use for man made religion and ritual and dogma. So I dont know where you come up with the stuff you do. I base my belief on a living, growing, relevant personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

And if you happened to have read my posts about this you will have observed that I was thoroughly ridiculed for that as well. So I guess the enemies of anything having to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ will come from any angle to seek and destroy that message.

I wish you well to, although since your tone, like some others before you, was from the start ridiculing and insulting, I dont believe you meant well.
I think your meaning was to disrupt and ridicule in order to make yourself feel superior, not to engage in respectful conversation.

You arent the first and you wont be the last.

Good luck to you.

[wistahpatsfan]

Try this one out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[3 to be 4]

Try this one out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

careful, someone might say you are dangerous lunatic for posting your beliefs:)

[fleabassist1]

Try this one out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

Suddenly my life is clear... I ... I can see the light...

[Tunescribe]

I have no use for man made religion and ritual and dogma.

My jaw dropped when I read this; it was like Ted Kennedy saying he has no use for politics or government. Dude, you are mired in the very ESSENCE of man-made religion/ritual/dogma. Your blindness to this absolutely boggles my mind.

I wish you well to, although since your tone, like some others before you, was from the start ridiculing and insulting, I dont believe you meant well. I think your meaning was to disrupt and ridicule in order to make yourself feel superior, not to engage in respectful conversation.

You thrive on feeling persecuted, don't you. It appears to be what you seek to feel reinforced in your beliefs. No, I have absolutely no use for attempting to "feel superior," score points, pump my ego, or justify what I do or do not believe. I absolutely DID mean well in trying to help you see the difference between addiction to religion and the pursuit of genuine spirituality. Yet, your apparent fear-based addictive process caused you to reject this out of hand. (As expected, but I decided to try anyway for clarity's sake.)

You are so hypocritical when it comes to accusing others of insult and ridicule, and blatantly insincere in your alleged wish for "respectful conversation." The latter appears true only when someone agrees with you; otherwise, you perceive "challenge" as "attack." I only entered into exchange with you once again over your claim that God damns innocent souls to hell because they haven't embraced Christianity or had a chance in their lifetime to be exposed to it. You asserted, "That's what the Bible says." No, it does not say that -- that's what YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE it says.

Now, please, let's end this. Your white-knuckle grip on religionism is intractible, as is your chosen blindness to Christianity's spiritual intent. By the same token, I will never submit to fundamentalist brainwashing. I don't want to have to come back again and defend myself against more of your odd misperceptions. Let us agree to disagree, because your heart and mind are far from open to respectful conversation on this subject.

[3 to be 4]

its understandable why so many people get so hostile and angry when someone talks of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
to accept the truth of its message, a person is faced with dealing with their sin, and they if they do that they would actually have to change the way they live their life. And deal with the needless guilt of having rejected the Lord all this time.
thats a lot to ask of people without their being some ugly backlash.
the evil in mans heart, like a cornered dog, fights back with all its might to survive. I was there. So I understand it.

fruitful conversation does not include challenging people to "use their brains", accuse people of being "brainwashed" and making sweeping generalizations that an entire group of millions of people are dangerous and sick.

Satan would like the focus to be about the seperation of God, and not on the rewards of Heaven God offers everybody for the small price of belief and acceptance of His Son. Softened messages to appeal to the masses try to make man believe he can have it all. Heaven, without changing anything. Heaven without accepting the one that makes Heaven available.

I dont focus on Hell, because God doesnt. Hell is life without God, such as darkness is only the absense of light. turn on the light and you dont need to fear the darkness.

this life is only here for a blink of an eye. Move a step toward him and he'll move two to you.

if its a choice of offending you, or being silent while you spend eternity away from God, deprived of Heaven, im sorry, Im not remaining silent.

Dont fear the darkness, look toward the light and the love.

[wistahpatsfan]

careful, someone might say you are dangerous lunatic for posting your beliefs:)You mean I'm not? You're not the first one to call me that, 32B4.:woohoo: :eat1:

[wistahpatsfan]

Suddenly my life is clear... I ... I can see the light...
Ye-e-e-e-s-s-s! Don't fight the truth. Resistance is only self-deprivation, my f-cked up son.

[3 to be 4]

You mean I'm not? You're not the first one to call me that, 32B4.:woohoo: :eat1:


lets be clear. I never called you that or insinuated that you were. I was refering to another here who calls people that for pronoucing their beliefs.

[wistahpatsfan]

lets be clear. I never called you that or insinuated that you were. I was refering to another here who calls people that for pronoucing their beliefs.Cool yer jets. I got it. Man, you must be gettin beat up in here.

[3 to be 4]

Cool yer jets. I got it. Man, you must be gettin beat up in here.

ya think? :)