Charter school scores down, study shows

[Patters]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060822/...harter_schools

Fourth-graders in traditional public schools are doing better in both reading and math than students in charter schools, the government says in a report fueling fresh debate over school choice.

Tuesday's report said fourth-graders in regular public schools scored an average of 5.2 points better in reading than students in charter schools on the 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress test. Students in traditional schools scored an average of 5.8 points better in math.

Charter school opponents said the findings show that the schools are a failing experiment that drains resources from traditional public schools. Charter school supporters called the report flawed and outdated and said charters improve public education by creating competition.

***

Not much of a surprise, except when one considers that public schools can often not be as selective as charter schools, the relative success of public schools is even more impressive.

[Harry Boy]

Liberals support Public Schools because that is where Liberalism is taught.

[Real World]

Originally Posted by Patters

the relative success of public schools is even more impressive.

Public schools are a joke. Grossly mismanaged, incredibley inefficient, and all while they crack up our kids with drugs like Ritalin. It's too bad too. Every nation has an obligation to educate it's young citizens. The more intelligent the citizentry, the better it is for the nation as a whole. The problem with out school system is that it's become a typical government agency. It's too big, too ineffective, and to senseless for its own good. When you start handing out ritilin to 4 & 5 year old kids, which for those of you who don't know, is basically prescribed cocaine, you've completely lost me.



The truth about Ritalin – a drug more potent than cocaine!

A study reported on in the Journal of the American Medical Association found Ritalin has a more potent effect on the brain than cocaine. Ritalin is classified as a Schedule 7 drug in South Africa, along with morphine, pethadine and the opiates (such as cocaine!).

Heightened concentration... but at what price?

If you have children or grandchildren, then I'm sure you've heard of Ritalin, the brand name for methylphenidate. This is the drug most commonly prescribed to children (and occasionally adults) to address Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), which is the clinical term for any impulsive or hyperactive behaviour deemed to be developmentally inappropriate. One and a half million American children take this drug every day. More disturbingly, there has been a three-fold increase in the prescription of stimulants to children between as young as two and four years of age! (JAMA 2000; 283:1025-30). Whilst the use of Ritalin is not so widespread in SA, there is a definite increase in the numbers of doctors now issuing it. Considering how little is actually known about how Ritalin works and its long-term effects, this is unacceptable. No one is saying that ADHD isn’t a very serious problem in some households. And no one is blaming parents for – in desperation – heeding their doctor’s advice, and giving their kids Ritalin. But there are alternatives!

But now it gets worse

Recently, Noven Pharmaceuticals announced it had completed the final phase of a clinical trial in preparation to file a New Drug Application with the US Food & Drug Administration (FDA). They hope quick approval will put their product, MethyPatch, on the market sooner rather than later. A Ritalin patch? That's right just put it on your child every morning before school, and throughout the day it administers a time-released dose of Ritalin. Forget those annoying pills. Forget the inconvenience of a school nurse having to deliver a dose to your child in the middle of the school day. Slap on the patch and, rest assured, your child will not behave in a developmentally inappropriate, impulsive or hyperactive manner for the next 24 hours. Noven says their patch is "comfortable" and "well suited to active lifestyles." Ah, the marketing rhetoric has already begun. Just imagine the photo of the "active lifestyle" family that will appear in the information literature that comes with MethyPatch - smiling parents, maybe they're wearing tracksuits (active!), and two smiling, comfortably composed children. And what's wrong with this picture? Just one thing: the children are on drugs more powerful than cocaine.

This is where it gets sticky

So if Ritalin provides a cocaine-like stimulation, why aren't children abusing Ritalin? Unfortunately they are. The Christian Science Monitor reports that a Drug Enforcement Administration study of Wisconsin, South Carolina, and Indiana in the US, found that as many as one-half of the teenagers in drug-treatment centres said they had used Ritalin to get high. And because Ritalin taken orally doesn't provide instant stimulation, many of these young people are crushing their Ritalin pills and inhaling the powder - just like cocaine. The CSM article goes on to detail incidents of children selling their dosages to other children, and other students pressuring their peers to share their pills. The DEA now lists Ritalin in its Top 10 list of most often stolen prescription drugs.


If Ritalin has taken a place in the drug culture as a controlled substance that's out of control, it's easy to imagine how the MethyPatch might be considered "cool" - not a stigma, but a badge of rebellion against a system of parents, teachers, doctors, and pharmaceutical corporations that told these children to "just say no," while drugging them daily.

[Patters]

What do you know about how public schools are managed, Real World? I've never been a teacher, but my parents and some of my siblings were teachers for many years. Like businesses, public schools that receive community support are often excellent because they can recruit talented teachers, offer great facilities for students (planetariums, olympic swimming pools, language training facilities, etc.). Public schools in poor areas are often inferior. A friend of mine has an aunt who was a substitute teacher in North Carolina, and earned $7/hour (about 5 years ago). Not only did she teach, she had to help clean up the cafeteria after lunch! Some public schools are good, some are not. There are a lot of reason for that, just as is the case with any business or other government agency, including the military, the police, the fire dept., and so on.

As far as Ritalin goes, drugs are going to be the treatment of choice as long as we let insurance companies dictate the quality of our health care. If kids can't get therapy, then the only option available is drugs.

[Patters]

Originally Posted by Harry Boy

Liberals support Public Schools because that is where Liberalism is taught.

Liberals support schooling because the more schooling people get, the more liberal they become. I recall reading that Kerry beat Bush by 10% among postgraduates. The corollary is that conservatives fear education because when people become more knowledgeable, they realize how bankrupt conservative ideas are. (Again, conservatives never win. They only slow progress down. It's hard to think of a conservative victory that compares with civil rights, women's rights, OSHA, clean air and water, and so on.)

[wistahpatsfan]

Originally Posted by Patters

As far as Ritalin goes, drugs are going to be the treatment of choice as long as we let insurance companies dictate the quality of our health care. If kids can't get therapy, then the only option available is drugs.

That's a load of crap. Drugging children for behavior problems is WRONG - PERIOD. There is nothing medically wrong with most kids on ritalin except for the fact that the vast majority are BOYS. Why is that? Maybe it's because boys are no longer permitted the physical outlet that is biologically required for them to grow. Less recess if any at all in some cases. No unsupervised time to play in the neighborhood because parents believe that there's a perverted monster behind every tree. The emasculation of boys is about to ruin a generation of Americans. Most of our creative people would have been diagnosed with ADHD if they were in school today. Ritalin would have robbed our culture of the cutting edge, and it will very soon.

It has nothing to do with healthcare and everything to do with our society of fear. No more ubnsupervised play. Adults hovering over you all day and night. I used to get yelled at if I came inside before dark in the summer except fot lunch and dinner. No one I grew up with had ADD or was on drugs (except for the kid who liked to torture animals and smelled bad). I've said this before: When the next generation comes of age - the one that will be taking care of us and the country - we're f--ked!

Schools need to be reformed and staffed better, that's for sure, and teachers - good teachers who are evaluated every year for competence without union BS about tenure and seniority not to mention minority hiring preferences - need better pay or more help . Lots of union public school teachers are great teachers, some are good, and others are horribly incompetent. My daughters go to public school in the city here and we got very lucky that they both got into Magnet schools that admit based on lottery for a limited # of positions. Her education is better than the local catholic school, but if she went to the neighborhood school, she'd be screwed. There's definitely an inequity in public schools based on economic status.

[Real World]

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

Schools need to be reformed and staffed better, that's for sure, and teachers - good teachers who are evaluated every year for competence without union BS about tenure and seniority not to mention minority hiring preferences -

I agree with you bro. As a kid I was 1,000 mph. Were I in school now I'd be on prescribed craack for sure. F'ing sad. Soon though, I'll post about the line above. The wonderful, and ever caring, teachers union.

[patsfan13]

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

That's a load of crap. Drugging children for behavior problems is WRONG - PERIOD. There is nothing medically wrong with most kids on ritalin except for the fact that the vast majority are BOYS. Why is that? Maybe it's because boys are no longer permitted the physical outlet that is biologically required for them to grow. Less recess if any at all in some cases. No unsupervised time to play in the neighborhood because parents believe that there's a perverted monster behind every tree. The emasculation of boys is about to ruin a generation of Americans. Most of our creative people would have been diagnosed with ADHD if they were in school today. Ritalin would have robbed our culture of the cutting edge, and it will very soon.

It has nothing to do with healthcare and everything to do with our society of fear. No more ubnsupervised play. Adults hovering over you all day and night. I used to get yelled at if I came inside before dark in the summer except fot lunch and dinner. No one I grew up with had ADD or was on drugs (except for the kid who liked to torture animals and smelled bad). I've said this before: When the next generation comes of age - the one that will be taking care of us and the country - we're f--ked!

Schools need to be reformed and staffed better, that's for sure, and teachers - good teachers who are evaluated every year for competence without union BS about tenure and seniority not to mention minority hiring preferences - need better pay or more help . Lots of union public school teachers are great teachers, some are good, and others are horribly incompetent. My daughters go to public school in the city here and we got very lucky that they both got into Magnet schools that admit based on lottery for a limited # of positions. Her education is better than the local catholic school, but if she went to the neighborhood school, she'd be screwed. There's definitely an inequity in public schools based on economic status.

Breat post Pulbic Schools are hostile to boys.

Schools can be run so they serve the needs of boys and girls. Currently Boys are being thrown under the bus.

[Patters]

wistah, Ritalin may well be over prescribed, but also ADD is understood better now than it was before. I have no idea if your theory about physical outlets is true. Do kids spend more time in the classroom; have most school districts cut extracurricular activities and gym? I'm not saying you're wrong, but your claim is news to me. Therapy is really important, but it's area that school systems have been cutting for years and it's by no means a quick fix. Drugs are the closest we have to a cheap quick fix, and it's the insurance companies who look for the cheapest solution.

[Real World]

Originally Posted by Patters

What do you know about how public schools are managed, Real World? I've never been a teacher, but my parents and some of my siblings were teachers for many years. Like businesses, public schools that receive community support are often excellent because they can recruit talented teachers, offer great facilities for students (planetariums, olympic swimming pools, language training facilities, etc.). Public schools in poor areas are often inferior. A friend of mine has an aunt who was a substitute teacher in North Carolina, and earned $7/hour (about 5 years ago). Not only did she teach, she had to help clean up the cafeteria after lunch! Some public schools are good, some are not. There are a lot of reason for that, just as is the case with any business or other government agency, including the military, the police, the fire dept., and so on.

Patters, my GF is a sped teacher here in Massachusetts. In our other forum we've debated public versus private schools for years now. My position is not to be taken as a voice against public schools, I simply feel that they are grossly mismanaged, have incredibley flawed ciriculum, and have been hijacked by the liberal left. A public education should be a minimum education. We shouldn't write a blank check to "save the children" so to speak. I could go on for days about public schools. Let me say this as it's closign time here at work, money is not the problem. Public school children cost 30-40% more per child than private school children. I beleive the national average is somewhere along $7-8k per child private versus $11-12k per for public.

Again, dependency upon the government is what politicians want. It makes them important. Ever notice the blanket rants by pols during elections?

"he wants to cut education spending"

"I will increase the school budget"

I'll get into this more later as I gotta close up here.