Acts and not words

[Turk]

http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2...h-country.html



867) Lessons to Canada: Which country helped most when Canadians tried to
rescue people from Lebanon?

Answer: Turkey
With Cyprus filled up, Canada urgently asked for Turkey's help. The Turks, whom
the Harper government just gratuitously insulted while playing domestic
politics, could have made up all kinds of excuses by way of payback.
Instead, the Turks turned the other cheek. They took out Lebanese-Canadian
citizens, rented boats, and put their airfield at our disposal. Have they
received an official thank you from Prime Minister Stephen Harper?
It's the least Mr. Harper could do after making recognition of the 90-year-old
Armenian "genocide" official government policy such a sore point in Turkey that
the Turkish government withdrew its ambassador to Canada to protest. . .
The Harper announcement, delivered almost flippantly in April, made headlines in
Turkey. Everybody close to the file knew the announcement had everything to do
with ethnic pandering in Canada, part of the Conservative's wider campaign to
play ethnic politics.
Now that the Conservatives have been in office for a little while, perhaps they
will realize that a country's foreign policy interests should not be
subordinated to domestic pandering. They might also realize that a foreign
policy based on realism requires remembering which countries are allies and
friends, because you never know when friends might come in handy.
As a NATO partner, Turkey is now being asked to contribute to a peacekeeping
force in southern Lebanon, a force Canada is not being asked to join (except by
some people in Canada) for the good reason that this force needs to be robust.
Canada does not have robust forces to spare, what with the two-year commitment
to Afghanistan, a point those urging Canadian participation might remember. The
Turks (who were in Afghanistan before us) and others will have to do the heavy
lifting if NATO agrees to inject a force into Lebanon . . .
The Globe and Mail, Canada July 25, 2006
By Jeffrey Simpson

[wistahpatsfan]

Isn't it silly that there's even a debate or comment about a genocide or war or both that happenned a hundred years ago? How dare a Canadian PM say anything like that after what happened to the Native North Americans at the hands of the Europeans? Why are Turks and Armenians so obsessed over this issue today? At least they have their own nations.

[Turk]

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

Isn't it silly that there's even a debate or comment about a genocide or war or both that happenned a hundred years ago? How dare a Canadian PM say anything like that after what happened to the Native North Americans at the hands of the Europeans? Why are Turks and Armenians so obsessed over this issue today? At least they have their own nations.

Hate (and what it leads to) is good business, WPF.
That is why the Armenian diaspora is trying the Turks in the political arena, threatening with their voting power, nevermind that a crime like genocide has to be recognized by an international court of law and this one never has.

[wistahpatsfan]

Originally Posted by Turk

Hate (and what it leads to) is good business, WPF.
That is why the Armenian diaspora is trying the Turks in the political arena, threatening with their voting power, nevermind that a crime like genocide has to be recognized by an international court of law and this one never has.

You are rferring to the actions of Canadian-Armenians? Which crime are you citing when you say "this one"? What exactly is the threat you mention? I'm not clear on your statement.

[QuiGon]

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

Isn't it silly that there's even a debate or comment about a genocide or war or both that happenned a hundred years ago? How dare a Canadian PM say anything like that after what happened to the Native North Americans at the hands of the Europeans? Why are Turks and Armenians so obsessed over this issue today? At least they have their own nations.

Well, I'm guessing you're neither Turk nor Armenian...

[wistahpatsfan]

Originally Posted by QuiGon

Well, I'm guessing you're neither Turk nor Armenian...

No, but I am American, and I've forgiven the Japanese, Germans, and Italians. And I'm pretty sure they've forgiven us. What's your point? Do you think the Turks and Armenians should be holding a grudge for and event that occurred 100 years ago? Don't you think it's a little much?

[QuiGon]

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

No, but I am American, and I've forgiven the Japanese, Germans, and Italians.

Well then you're a bigger man than I am. I can forgive the Japanese, Germans and Italians as a people but I have no forgiveness for the the butchers of the holocaust. Should the Jews just forgive the Nazis now that we are 60 years removed from WW2..?

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

What's your point?

My point (which I thought was obvious but I apologize if I overestimated your intelligence) is that it is easier as someone on the outside to sit back and say "Why can't you guys just get along?" But if you are a member of an ethnicity that feels you have suffered hundreds of years of rape, oppression and murder at the hands of the other, maybe you might understand how those things can carry forward to the present day.

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

Do you think the Turks and Armenians should be holding a grudge for and event that occurred 100 years ago?

I don't think it's my place to tell people whether or not to hold a grudge over historical injustices that have occured to their people.

[Turk]

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

You are rferring to the actions of Canadian-Armenians? Which crime are you citing when you say "this one"? What exactly is the threat you mention? I'm not clear on your statement.

Sorry.
I was referring to the genocide claim that the Armenian diaspora has been pressuring the legislators into signing into law, here in the US as well as Canada and Europe.
Genocide is a crime that has to be recognized by an international court of law, by definition. This claim by the Armenian diaspora has not been decided by any court of law and has been rejected by the UN.
As a matter of fact, the 146 Turkish officers who were tried after First World War, while their country was invaded by England, by an Armenian judge were all found not guilty of these crimes, in Malta.
So, the Armenians conveniently take their claim to the political arena and pressure their local candidates into signing this claim into law, with their votes, when no such verdict has been decided upon by the appropriate body, anywhere in the world.
Since Turks do not have voters in such numbers, they lose, plain and simple lobby games.
Turkey has been asking for a joint team of scholars and legislators from both countries to study the archives which are open to public, in Turkey. The Armenians, while their archives are not open, reject this invitation and claim that the decision and verdict are already in and that there is no need for research or debate.
The threat I mentioned is simply how the Armenian diaspora attempts to influence the decision making bodies with their votes. You don't use the word genocide, you don't get the Armenian vote, plain and simple. Nevermind the fact that it is not up to a local legislator in Wisconsin or Utah or Maine to make such decisions about events that happened 100 years ago in a corner of the world that most of them cannot even point to on a map.

[Turk]

[quote=QuiGon]... My point (which I thought was obvious but I apologize if I overestimated your intelligence) QUOTE]

There simply is no need for this and I must state that this is not the first time you have chosen to lower the bar, QuiGon. Please, just stop it.

[QuiGon]

Originally Posted by Turk

There simply is no need for this and I must state that this is not the first time you have chosen to lower the bar, QuiGon. Please, just stop it.

Gee, did you get appointed moderator sometime in the past week and I missed it...? How come you never talk about "lowering the bar" when I am the recipient of venom and insults magnitudes worse than what I just wrote...?

Given the level of venom and hatred that's been thrown at me from various parts in this forum, my responses are ridiculously mild.