does Al-Quaeda actually exist?

[BruschiOnTap]

Originally Posted by NEM

Now, before you rightys jump all over me for this, let me preface the rest of my comments by saying that I, like 95% of Americans, was right with Bush when he sent our troops to Afghanistan to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda, the perpertrators of the 9/11 attack.

Osam Bin Laden is still at large.

I too was gung-ho about kicking terrorist asses.

However, I recently watched a BBC documentary which will NEVER be aired in America, called 'the Power of Nightmares.' This is no Michael Moore-camera tricks-smoke and mirrors-BS. It was done by serious journalists who got important people on tape. One of these interviewers says that the name 'Al-Quaeda' was never heard until AFTER 9/11. But that is only the last piece of the puzzle.

You see in this film bin Laden and Zawahiri team up and lead the RADICAL fundamentalists into banishment to Afghanistan. No muslim country supports their crazy beliefs just like most Christian Americans think Jerry Fallwell is a complete idiot. It shows bin Laden try harder each time he fails to gain popular support, going after bigger and more horrific targets. It really depicts him as a crazy Arab redneck with lots of money and Zawahiri as a radical Islamist intellectual with zero influence and several attempts at failed revolutions under his belt. 9/11 was their way to get onto our TVs and become the revolutionaries they always believed they could be.

After interviews with CIA directors and agents you get a picture of al-Quaeda as a paper tiger. It's not a big spider web with 'sleeper cells' and 'splinter cells' and 'dirty bombs' all plotting all the time. It's more like some sheepherder says 'boy I'd like to get America big time by poisioning their water hole' and some guy he knows also knows somebody who also knows somebody and if you have a good enough idea they'll refer you to bin Laden who has the money to fund your idea. It's so non-organized that they can't find it because it probably doesn't exist. Think about it: they can't use internet, they can't use telephones, they can't use the post, they can't use banking. Do you think bin Laden really runs the revolution from some dank cave? He puts out the tapes to remind everyone that the 'revolution' is still going on (even though it never was).

I have wondered about many of these things over the recent years and I believe I've suggested this before: 9/11 was not any sort of master terrorist plot. Think about it. It doesn't scare any Americans from their daily routines. The IRA, the Basques, Chechen rebels, they go after small targets that systematically lower public morale. They go after commuter trains, the London Tube, buses, cinemas. If I can liken it to poker, you bet small to lure everyone in. You don't bet high or everyone backs off before you can take their money. That's what 9/11 was, a bad gamble. It was fantastic and made for great TV but it was probably the fantasy of some brimstone miner that made it to the ears of bin Laden, who by that point was desperate to prove his revolution had teeth. At any rate, al-Quaeda was never named until after 9/11 when bin Laden was eager to claim his role in the attacks.

NEM, if you can download this film it will verify many things you have wondered about and also blow your mind in some ways. You should see the sections on Wolfowitz, Rummy, and Cheney. They are very interstingly juxtaposed against bin Laden and Zawahiri.

[IcyPatriot]

I think you need to catch up with the times Bruschi...Al-Qaeda is not tops on the list anymore...nor is OBL. What we are seeing around the world are battles with Muslim Extremists. Google the latest news on Somalia for a sample.

Neither Bush or the Repuiblicans created Muslim extremists. Every President, mostly starting with Reagan has had to deal with them. Every President after Bush will have to deal with them becasue they are religious fanatics and people have been dying due to religion.

They are not some fantasy and nobody screwed up leading to their rise in power. There is 1 and only 1 reason why there has been a rise in power for them and that is the Internet. The internet has led to their power through communication.

So, if you all feel a need to blame someone whose name is not Clinton..let's blame Al Gore...he claims to have been the forefather of the internet and this is all his fault....I need a vacation from the stupidity in this forum...too many inspectors thinking they have found the smoking gun.

I am convinced that lefties pick on righties to cleanse their soul...to give the appearance that none of this is their fault. Sorry...only a fool believes that. Muslim Extremists hate anyone not devoted to Islam..but you keep searching for the truth you guys...the truth that has been right in front of your eyes for a very long time.

You can either worship Allah and live by the Quran or you will be targeted for death...there is no middle ground and Bush did not create the ultra-conservative islamic viewpoints.

Tomorrow is training camp...go pick on each other for a while...it's your nature to complain....it's what makes you all happy and well..misery loves company.!!!

[Patters]

That's quite interesting. For a long time, I felt that Al Qaeda was a rag-tag force, especially since they failed to follow 9/11 with anything substantial in the U.S. But, by building them up, the Bush administration was able to make itself appear more resolute, more courageous, and more righteous, and more easily justify its reckless adventurism.

Of course, since 9/11, Bush has done such a good job at giving Al Qaeda legitimacy that it's probably become a natural place for anti-American Muslims to turn to. (After all, the main other option, the largely secular Baathists, have been wiped out.) So, I think Bush did succeed in creating a powerful terrorist force. That may well be his legacy.

[BruschiOnTap]

I think you sort of missed my point. We have never been in serious danger from these groups because they have no actual organization nor do any of them have popular support. Al-Quaeda sort of symbolizes Islamic extremism as a whole. None of these extremists would have the means to execute any terror plot without bin Laden's money and his desire to be part of the revolution.

[maverick4]

Not that I believe this, but I've considered this at times:

-Bin Laden has very close, friendly, historical ties to the Bush family.
-9/11 made invading Iraq/Iran possible for the administration.
-We never really tried to catch Bin Laden; he remains at large.
-Every time Bush was in trouble, especially during re-election, the terror colors went from yellow to orange or red or whatever color they turned to, and Bin Laden always came out with a tape at a very opportune time for Bush.

I'm just saying.

<takes my tinfoil hat off>

.

[Harry Boy]

You'll never get a liberal to admit that America and many other Christian country's are at war with a "fanatical religion" MUSLIM.

Liberals look the other way as the heads are "carved off", Muslims are also the enemy of the Hated Bush therefore the sore loser liberals show sympathy towards Islam.

The "Hater Liberals" are all in a dither right now because Israel is on the front page and there isn't much "bad new" from Iraq.

MUSLIMs will never stop trying to "KILL YOU"

[shmessy]

Originally Posted by Harry Boy

You'll never get a liberal to admit that America and many other Christian country's are at war with a "fanatical religion" MUSLIM.

Liberals look the other way as the heads are "carved off", Muslims are also the enemy of the Hated Bush therefore the sore loser liberals show sympathy towards Islam.

The "Hater Liberals" are all in a dither right now because Israel is on the front page and there isn't much "bad new" from Iraq.

MUSLIMs will never stop trying to "KILL YOU"

Obviously, Harry Boy is more concerned with American Liberals than with the terrorists.

[Mainefan]

The term "Al Quaeda" means something like "the file" or "the folder," and it refers to the the informal group of fanatics who think of Osama as their leader. It's not like Hezbollah, for instance, which is well-organized and has a clear leadership heirarchy.

Whether or not it exists as an organization is not really the point. The point is that the term represents a way of thinking among certain fanatics who wish us harm.

Exactly why they haven't attacked us inside the US since 911, I don't know. It's probably a combination of factors--the really capable people have been on the run and haven't been able to organize another big hit, our intelligence services have broken up some terrorist efforts, the terrorists have been concentrating on a more convenient target: our soldiers in Iraq. And then, we could always be hit tomorrow.

[PATSNUTme]

You guys are right. Al Qeada is nothing.

I think the people in Bali, Madrid, and London will all agree with that.

And, radical Islamic fundermentalist terrorist groups, of which there are reportedly many, are just something made up so we, the bad Americans, can wage our wars.

And, a country run by Islamic clergy say like Iran and formally Afganistan are no threat to anyone.

Yup, training camp starts tomorrow so I'll be taking a long vacation from this forum. Just in time, I think.

[BruschiOnTap]

Originally Posted by PATSNUTme

You guys are right. Al Qeada is nothing.

I think the people in Bali, Madrid, and London will all agree with that.

And, radical Islamic fundermentalist terrorist groups, of which there are reportedly many, are just something made up so we, the bad Americans, can wage our wars.

And, a country run by Islamic clergy say like Iran and formally Afganistan are no threat to anyone.

Yup, training camp starts tomorrow so I'll be taking a long vacation from this forum. Just in time, I think.

A huge point of the whole thing is that most Muslims/Arabs are completely at odds with the al-Quaeda/fundamentalist movement and that even in Iran/Iraq/Syria they have little/no sway over any public sentiment. Granted I think each day our military is there that changes a little more. But I digress. The fact that they are such a marginalized group of society should change the way we view regimes like Iran. Who cares if they are living under Muslim laws? It doesn't make them evil. They don't 'harbor' terrorists, society has pushed them out to the fringe.

As one of you noted, 'al-Quaeda' gains legitimacy and becomes more of an organization every time they (bin Laden and Zawahiri) release a tape and get their faces plastered on every TV, bathroom wall, and playing card set because they are suddenly the 'mainstream' voice of disaffected Muslim youth. I think 'al-Quaeda' is the mid-Eastern equivalent of those militia groups in Michigan: lots of rhetoric, lots of training, but regarded as crazy.

Madrid, and London were calculated terrorist attacks designed to hurt public morale, completely different from 9/11. Madrid had NOTHING to do with Islamism. It was the Basques fighting for a legit cause.