Salon has all the Abu Ghraib photos

[Patters]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...16/abu_ghraib/

You can argue whether it was right of Salon to release the photos, but the fact is in this world that's the kind of thing the media does. The damage to our claims of being righteous will certainly be severe. As Dick Durbin said, looking at these photos makes one think of the Nazis or of Stalin. It's horrific that our country should be involved in things like this and that our President and Vice-President should want to legalize this kind of torture. This is the exact kind of material that we used to discredit Saddam and the Soviet regime.

[PatsFanInEaglesLand]

Originally Posted by Patters

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...16/abu_ghraib/

You can argue whether it was right of Salon to release the photos, but the fact is in this world that's the kind of thing the media does. The damage to our claims of being righteous will certainly be severe. As Dick Durbin said, looking at these photos makes one think of the Nazis or of Stalin. It's horrific that our country should be involved in things like this and that our President and Vice-President should want to legalize this kind of torture. This is the exact kind of material that we used to discredit Saddam and the Soviet regime.

Are you fu(king me with the Nazi and Stalin references? They killed nearly 40 million people combined! Sending someone to die in a gas chamber or making someone freeze to death is not even close to what was going on there. Neither you nor Durbin have any clue what it must be like to guard and interrogate a person hell bent on destroying you, for you guys to say stuff like this is just trying to score political points at the expense of the military, which is reprehensible.

[ELOrocks17]

Originally Posted by PatsFanInEaglesLand

Are you fu(king me with the Nazi and Stalin references? They killed nearly 40 million people combined! Sending someone to die in a gas chamber or making someone freeze to death is not even close to what was going on there. Neither you nor Durbin have any clue what it must be like to guard and interrogate a person hell bent on destroying you, for you guys to say stuff like this is just trying to score political points at the expense of the military, which is reprehensible.

Amen to that!

[Patters]

Originally Posted by PatsFanInEaglesLand

Are you fu(king me with the Nazi and Stalin references? They killed nearly 40 million people combined! Sending someone to die in a gas chamber or making someone freeze to death is not even close to what was going on there. Neither you nor Durbin have any clue what it must be like to guard and interrogate a person hell bent on destroying you, for you guys to say stuff like this is just trying to score political points at the expense of the military, which is reprehensible.

LOOKING AT THOSE PHOTOS makes one think of the KIND OF THINGS that the Nazis and Stalin did. Looking at piles of dead bodies in graves, gas chambers, and people being used for medical experiments also makes me think of the Nazis and Stalin. If you saw the Abu Ghraib photos and did not know they had anything to do with us, what would you think of: a Christmas dinner?

[Chevy]

Originally Posted by Patters

LOOKING AT THOSE PHOTOS makes one think of the KIND OF THINGS that the Nazis and Stalin did. Looking at piles of dead bodies in graves, gas chambers, and people being used for medical experiments also makes me think of the Nazis and Stalin. If you saw the Abu Ghraib photos and did not know they had anything to do with us, what would you think of: a Christmas dinner?

The reality is that this is nowhere near the realm of torture in the classical sense. Kids, this isn't a bunch of 12 year olds playing Army. These prisoners are part of a group that wants to see western civilization eradicated. Attacking their weakness (their religion and sense of modesty) is an effective tactic in breaking down their will, making them more likely to divulge sensitive information.

We didn't resort to true torture - that is the application of pain. There were no racks, electric shocks. We didn't behead any prisoners.

To compare Abu Graib to anything done by Stalin or Hitler is merely posturing for the benefit of the media at the expense of our troops.

[ELOrocks17]

Originally Posted by Patters

LOOKING AT THOSE PHOTOS makes one think of the KIND OF THINGS that the Nazis and Stalin did. Looking at piles of dead bodies in graves, gas chambers, and people being used for medical experiments also makes me think of the Nazis and Stalin. If you saw the Abu Ghraib photos and did not know they had anything to do with us, what would you think of: a Christmas dinner?

Hmm...Patters...Exacty how many prisoners died in Abu garab? How many dies in Aushwitz?

Abu Garab=0
Aushwitz= 60,000


Yep...i can see that they are so similar..its shocking.

[Pujo]

Originally Posted by Chevy

The reality is that this is nowhere near the realm of torture in the classical sense. Kids, this isn't a bunch of 12 year olds playing Army. These prisoners are part of a group that wants to see western civilization eradicated. Attacking their weakness (their religion and sense of modesty) is an effective tactic in breaking down their will, making them more likely to divulge sensitive information.

We didn't resort to true torture - that is the application of pain. There were no racks, electric shocks. We didn't behead any prisoners.

To compare Abu Graib to anything done by Stalin or Hitler is merely posturing for the benefit of the media at the expense of our troops.

Let's deal with real-world grays, not black-and-white.

What we're doing to prisoners is wrong, though not as bad as what the nazis or Stalin did in their times.

You don't need electrical shocks to constitute torture - you try kneeling, bent over with your hands being pulled up behind your back for hours. Why is it wrong?

1. These people are SUSPECTS. Most of them are probably guilty as hell, but there are some who are there because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It wouldn't shock me if 10%-15% of prisoners were not guilty of a crime.

2. Any information obtained like this is very suspect because people will say anything to get out of a bad situation.

And this has nothing to do with the soldiers. They're following orders from politicians.

[Chevy]

Originally Posted by Pujo

Let's deal with real-world grays, not black-and-white.

What we're doing to prisoners is wrong, though not as bad as what the nazis or Stalin did in their times.

You don't need electrical shocks to constitute torture - you try kneeling, bent over with your hands being pulled up behind your back for hours. Why is it wrong?

1. These people are SUSPECTS. Most of them are probably guilty as hell, but there are some who are there because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It wouldn't shock me if 10%-15% of prisoners were not guilty of a crime.

2. Any information obtained like this is very suspect because people will say anything to get out of a bad situation.

And this has nothing to do with the soldiers. They're following orders from politicians.

Actually, your point #2 is wrong. Classical Torture - beatings, yanking teeth/fingernails, the real damaging stuff - will often get you false information for the reasons you stated. However, sleep deprivation, high levels of embarrasment - designed to break down your will over time - work because they get you to give up, not give in. These interrogation techniques are common practice, accepted, and have been in use for many years.

[Harry Boy]

A human being is a human being:

When is the last time you have heard the "Sore Losing Bush Hating Anti American Media" even slightly or even EVER mention Saddam and Sons.

Gassing humans, raping children, beheading, amputating legs, feet, hands and cutting out tongues, forcing little children to watch as their fathers were trown from rooftops and when they hit the ground their guts went all over their childrens faces.

Why do these same "Bush Hating Scum" try their best to prevent us from ever seeing another 9/11 picture for as long as we live.

It is totally disgusting to see the Left Wing Liberal Media turn on their President and their Country all out of "Childish Jealousy And Hatred" that they hold for one man, GEORGE W BUSH.
THANK GOD I AM NOT ONE OF YOU.

[Pujo]

Originally Posted by Chevy

Actually, your point #2 is wrong. Classical Torture - beatings, yanking teeth/fingernails, the real damaging stuff - will often get you false information for the reasons you stated. However, sleep deprivation, high levels of embarrasment - designed to break down your will over time - work because they get you to give up, not give in. These interrogation techniques are common practice, accepted, and have been in use for many years.

I disagree, though my disagreement comes from gut feeling and not from research. Is there any research on the effectiveness of what you're saying?

Also, how to we reconcile the need for information with my point #1 above?