Palm Beach Pats Fan

Fits personnel of Wake and Odrick on the outsides. Not sure what difference it makes otherwise.

Against us a base nickel or big nickel is likely anyway.

Dolphins moving from 3-4 to pressure-based 4-3 defense | ProFootballTalk

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mayoclinic

I posted this under the "random news" thread, but it's probably deserving of it's own thread.

Koa Misi seems like the odd man out right now. Pats' fans scream about how Jermaine Cunningham struggled last year, but Misi was a top-40 pick and really struggled as well, and has had off-field issues as well (3 felony counts stemming from an incident in California). It's not clear where he fits right now.

I'm also a little dubious of Jared Odrick playing the Jonathan Fanene role of a 4-3 LDE moving inside on sub packages. I'm not sure he's quick enough to play outside in a 4-3, though obviously Red Bryant could do it at 323#.

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Guimond3434

When I read news like this, it makes me happy the Patriots are who they are. So many teams try year in and out to find a "scheme" that works. From a 3-4, to a 4-3, to a Tampa-2....every off season I read about teams "switching" their personnel around. And every year, those teams that switch things around struggle, because they are constantly having to do different things every year.

It really highlights why BB is considered a "defensive mastermind". Teams are always switching things around because they can't figure out what works. Yet BB just sits back....picks a player or two here and there, and has a defense that is successful as a 3-4, 4-3, Sub-Package, Hybrid....even that "roaming cow" defense we saw a few years ago. And on top of that, he can switch between any form of defense almost instantly...during a game between plays even. NO team in the NFL can do that.

So while Miami "changes things up" again, trying to find a defense that works, BB and the Patriots are sitting back, laughing.

mayoclinic

At 250#, I'm not sure how Cameron Wake will hold up playing full-time DE in a 4-3 scheme. A lot will depend on how he is used. But Wake was a liability against the run as a 3-4 OLB, much less as a 4-3 DE.

I'm always a little suspicious when teams try to adapt their personnel to a new scheme, as opposed to building the scheme around their personnel.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Deus Irae

Some teams struggle, some teams don't. Houston didn't struggle when they switched.

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mayoclinic

Very true, and it remains to be seen whether the Dolphins struggle. But one key difference is that Houston went out and drafted a top 3-4 DE prospect in JJ Watt, and had guys in Barwin and Reed who were pretty well suited to play 3-4 OLB. I'm not as convinced that Miami's personnel will be as well suited to their new scheme, but we'll have to see.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Guimond3434

Houston is a special case...they went from 31st in the league to 1st in one offseason...I put a chunk of their success on having an outstanding draft (JJ Watt and Brooks Reed where instant stars) and Wade Philips personally. So I don't put so much weight on their defensive success on their philosophy switch then I do on other factors.

Deus Irae

So, what's your argument for the 2009 Packers?

If you make a claim that teams struggle when they switch, and you then rule out the examples that show teams not struggling when they switch, you'll find that your initial argument is always going to be correct.

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mayoclinic

My only observation would be that the 2009 Packers, like the 2011 Texans, went out and used 2 high draft picks on players who were excellent schematic fits for their new scheme - NT BJ Raji at #9 and OLB Clay Matthews at #26. I believe that it does help to have talent that projects well to your scheme. Again, I'm agnostic as to how the switch works out for Miami. But I'm not as convinced that their personnel is as good a fit for their new scheme as was the case with Houston or Green Bay.

Houston and Green Bay were also teams who were already very good on offense and who could afford to invest in their defenses when making a schematic shift. The Dolphins, in contrast, had a woeful offense and used 3 of their top 4 picks this year on that side of the ball (Ryan Tannehill, Jonathan Martin and Michael Egnew, with Olivier Vernon the lone defensive pick day 1 or 2). They also didn't go after any potential impact defenders in free agency. Again, it helps to be able to target players who fit your scheme. Maybe the Phins thought that they already had the pieces in place, but I'm a bit dubious. Again, time will tell.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Palm Beach Pats Fan

Wade Phillips and Dom Capers can put in new schemes and make it work, given good personnel.

Kevin Coyle? Bengals? Longtime defense backs coach team never having much of a defense or overall, consistent success over his tenure?

I have no idea what positives he brings to the table. Not much, I hope.

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