Stokes

You might have to dumb it down for me a little, I don't see how those quotes relate to my questions of why god demands servitude. Also, is god infallible? Does god make mistakes, or is what god does always the right thing? If god is infallible how do we explain his willingness to torture one of his flock just to win a bet with the devil (book of Job)? What kind of god picks sides in the battles of men as he does all through the old testament?

DisgruntledTunaFan

Here's some verses to ponder...

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OldEngland

I'm glad you enjoyed it Stokes. I remember reading this when it first came out. It's a great novel (although theologically imperfect) yet it has been of great encouragement and comfort to many people, and there is great love within the pages of this book.


I'd love to know what you think of the relationships between God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the main character?

And in particular what you thought of how the Holy Spirit was represented?

Stokes

You know, I thought the book did a great job capturing how I imagine the way god would relate to a human being, with love, amusement, and sometimes exasperation, but never scorn or anger. The way the trinity interacted was a little tougher to capture I think, since basically any interaction they had that the guy could see was to help make things feel natural for him. I liked how the holy spirit was dealt with, ephemeral but strangely businesslike in her demeanor I thought. Even if the book tried I never felt like she radiated the warmth of god or Jesus. I was also really amused by the character of Jesus, overly happy about everything, almost like the kid in class that gets too excited about helping the teacher (that was how he came off to me anyway). Everything was all about "hey, isn't this great!! Let's eat more vegetables! I love vegetables don't you?!? Made me laugh.

Stokes

Also DTF posting biblical quotes does not count as discussion to me, I'd love to get into some of the topics I've raised but I'd like some analysis from your end, not just quotes!

OldEngland

I have complete faith God is infallible and is absolute Holiness. The more I continue on this journey, the more I become convinced of this, although I understand you may not agree with me.

It cannot be coincidence that the men of faith both that are recorded in the period of the writing of the Bible, and others recorded in the 2000 years since that offer complete servitude in their hearts, minds and souls are the people God usually chooses to use as His instruments.

But why God would chooses us to have a relationship with us, I am not sure, but using Genesis 1, this must have been how it was in the beginning.

I suppose my understanding at this moment in time why He would want servitude can be reflected in all our lives.

If you had the choice of someone to work with; I'm sure you would prefer to choose the person who respects you, loves you, has spent their life getting to know you, recognises your voice from others, avoids everything you advise not to do, and would do whatever you asked for the benefit of others without question?

Those people must be easier to work with (especially if you are infallible). But thankfully due to His grace, He can still have a relationship with us fallible people who mess up every now and again.



I sometimes meditate on how Job felt about this at the time and afterwards.

Can I ask you a question?

Would you suffer as Job did, if it meant that your own experiences would encourage and teach billions of people over thousands of years?


I don't pretend my answers are complete. What are your thoughts on the questions you posted?

OldEngland

Agreed, I sometimes remind myself how He is our Father, and we must be like a very large family of children to Him, and how we relate to our own families with a mixture of joy, happiness, amusement, exasperation, comforting, correcting, teaching, and how they don’t always follow good advice, only He does it out of pure love that we could never accomplish.

However there are occasions of anger within both books of the Bible, although much less in the NT.



Many great men of the faith have portrayed the Holy Spirit in the context of a person, so I liked the analogy. Although I agree it must be very hard to capture the personality of the Spirit of God in a novel, although scripturally the personality traits are reasonably well described.

I am not sure what your personal experiences of the Holy Spirit are (and it would be interesting to chat about) but in my experience with the Holy Spirit and especially watching Him interacting with others, I just really want to say He radiates with an astonishingly pure, gentle and powerful love that can only really be described as Holy.

Stokes

I don't think I'm brave enough to suffer as Job did, or as Jesus did for that matter, even if it meant billions living their lives as better people because of it. I'd like to say I would but you start talking leprosy and I'm outta there.

My thoughts are reflected in the questions themselves, and also in my reaction to the book. Although theologically off-base according to christian canon, I find the idea of god proposed in the book much closer to what could be than what I read in the old testament. It simply doesn't wash to me that god could be both omnipotent and yet demanding of pure behavior from creatures that are by nature imperfect. Its like me asking a gerbil to eat corn but not carrots knowing he's not going to be able to stop himself, then give him carrots and get pissed when he eats them.

Full disclosure I am an atheist, but I do find discussion of religion an interesting topic and I'm not one to look down on believers as some atheists are.

Here's the thing about the book of Job: his heart remains pure even after all the torture god puts him through right? By that reasoning god has won the wager with satan right? But doesn't the story show that satan in fact has won, by getting god to torture a righteous man for no other reason than to show he'll keep coming back for more?

DisgruntledTunaFan

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Author of The Shack denies John 14:6
YouTube - Episode of wretched - Author of The Shack is universalist

BTW-this one's for you...

Part 1 starts at the 6th video down on the right
YouTube - jonah70757's Channel

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Scott A. Johnson - End Times Current Events and Bible Study

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Lifer

so whats the problem with Billy Graham??