The 2013 Prospect Thread - Page 102 - New England Patriots Forums

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot · 10-30-2012, 11:23 PM

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Originally Posted by manxman2601

Have to say,he wasn't doing a lot of quarterbacking when he came up against Star Lotulelei (unless it's Mark Sanchez quarterbacking). Holmes looked completely lost and terrified. It's the only time I've focused on him and it was on of the worst quarters of football I've seen from a prospect. Picked it up a little later to b fair to him but if he can't handle premier DTs without getting clusters, I wouldn't want him in the firs round. sorry Mackenzie.

He had a bum ankle in that game.

ATippett56 · 10-31-2012, 12:37 AM

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Originally Posted by mackenzie45220

I'm not too fond of Trufant. No feel for the game.

No comment on Jordan Poyer?

***mayoclinic*** · 10-31-2012, 05:16 AM

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Originally Posted by mackenzie45220

Make it 3. Khaled Holmes is the best center prospect you will ever see (I will kill anyone who says the word "Pouncey").
Center is easily the most underrated position in football. What a lot of people don't realize is that the center acts as the quarterback of the O-line. He needs to be able to read the defense and detect whether or not a blitz is coming. That's why they always have their heads up pre-snap if they play in a pro style offense. They need to make line calls and really act as the quarterback of the O-line. If any player is ever left unblocked, it's the center's fault, because that means he either didn't read the defense or communicate the assignment properly. Holmes is amazing at making line calls, and is worthy of a top 20 pick.

You haven't been around this board very long. Off the Grid has been passionate about the center position for a long time, calling it the 3rd most important position on the team after QB and DT. He's been a huge advocate about building not only around the lines but from the "inside out" (i.e., form the interior lines out rather than from the edges in as is currently the fad in the NFL), generally around the theory that a player's value diminishes the further his position places him from the ball.

As for Khaled Holmes, I've had him on my short list for a long time. See post #22 on this thread above from May 1, a full 6 months ago, where I listed him along with Jonathan Cooper and Barrett Jones as potential top-40 linemen of interest. Right now I don't see Holmes as a top 40 pick, but I'd be thrilled with him in the late 2nd round or later, and his stock could climb back up.

As things currently stand, I would personally prefer to go the FA route to address DB needs rather than adding more youth at that area. Unless an absolute "stud" falls to us in the 1st round I'd prefer to trade back a bit and hopefully end up with 4 day 2 picks. Ideally, I would use those 4 picks on LDE, DT, interior OL and WR, in some order, mostly depending on value and how the draft fell. In my last mock I had the Pats taking OG Jonathan Cooper at 40 (currently NFL DraftScout #35) and DT Sylvester Williams at #82 (currently NFL Draftscout #82). But I'd be pretty content with going with DT Kawann Short at 40 (currently NFL Draftscout #36) and OC Khaled Holmes at #82 (currently NFL Draftscout 83). Either way the Pats would get a solid interior lineman and a solid defensive tackle. I'd be more than happy to leave things to how the draft sorted out and the judgment of BB and the FO.

***mayoclinic*** · 10-31-2012, 05:46 AM

I would caution against making snap judgments about what a prospect like Ziggy Ansah can or can't do based on film of him right now. He's raw, and just cracked the starting lineup this season. The lightbulb has only recently come on, and he's still putting things together. The raw strength and length are there. He needs some technical work and coaching up, but he's smart and motivated kid.

2 years ago I made the biggest scouting mistake I ever made, judging JJ Watt based on too much early film of him. Thought he lacked lateral mobility. Even Box labelled him a "developmental" prospect around this time of year 2 years ago, though by the end of the year he had improved his draft grade somewhat. Guys with athletic ability like Watt and Ansah are able to make dramatic gains once they put things together.

doesntmatter1 · 10-31-2012, 07:22 AM

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Originally Posted by mayoclinic

I would caution against making snap judgments about what a prospect like Ziggy Ansah can or can't do based on film of him right now. He's raw, and just cracked the starting lineup this season. The lightbulb has only recently come on, and he's still putting things together. The raw strength and length are there. He needs some technical work and coaching up, but he's smart and motivated kid.

2 years ago I made the biggest scouting mistake I ever made, judging JJ Watt based on too much early film of him. Thought he lacked lateral mobility. Even Box labelled him a "developmental" prospect around this time of year 2 years ago, though by the end of the year he had improved his draft grade somewhat. Guys with athletic ability like Watt and Ansah are able to make dramatic gains once they put things together.

I did the same thing. I had a short list of 4 players I thought were the most disruptive. They were corey liuget, jj watt, ryan kerrigan, and von miller. Liuget was my personal favorite. I envisioned him playing the run like ty warren for us and offering some interior pass rush if we stuck with a 4-3 d. Kerrigan and Watt were almost equal for me and i only put watt higher because he was bigger. Had no idea watt would be this crazy. Good but not like this. And miller is so much better than i thought as well. I thought he was crazy disruptive in the pass game but i HATED the way he defended the run. Now i don't see his run defense as a problem at all. Throughout the years i noticed that everyone i notice early and predict as a 2nd or 3rd round goes first. So ziggy might just shoot up there.

ATippett56 · 10-31-2012, 12:38 PM

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Originally Posted by mayoclinic

In my last mock I had the Pats taking OG Jonathan Cooper at 40 (currently NFL DraftScout #35) and DT Sylvester Williams at #82 (currently NFL Draftscout #82). But I'd be pretty content with going with DT Kawann Short at 40 (currently NFL Draftscout #36) and OC Khaled Holmes at #82 (currently NFL Draftscout 83). Either way the Pats would get a solid interior lineman and a solid defensive tackle. I'd be more than happy to leave things to how the draft sorted out and the judgment of BB and the FO.

In my humble opinion, Larry Warford provides better value at the end of the second round for an offensive right guard prospect than Jonathan Cooper. Second, I'm not fond of North Carolina prospects.

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Stock - Week 9

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Larry Warford, G, Kentucky

The outing against Missouri was going to be one of Warford's best tests of the season, and he passed it with flying colors. Warford had a lot of success going against the Tigers' speedy defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson. Warford stopped Richardson's speed rushes and was effective in run blocking.

Warford pulled around the left side early on and blocked the linebacker to spring his back. Warford hit another backside block on a defender in pursuit to help continue the gain. He blasted open a hole a few plays later for a two-yard touchdown. Richardson had a decent game, but all of his good plays came when he went against other linemen.

Warford (6-3, 343) is a powerful beast who can blast open running holes, but still has more quickness and athleticism than one would expect from such a large blocker. This tape should help Warford's stock to move up on the second day of the 2013 NFL Draft.

***mayoclinic*** · 10-31-2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATippett56

In my humble opinion, Larry Warford provides better value at the end of the second round for an offensive right guard prospect than Jonathan Cooper. Second, I'm not fond of North Carolina prospects.

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Stock - Week 9

Warford is a damn good guard. The biggest question to my mind is whether he's more of a "road grader" than what the Pats usually want at guard. With that in mind, if the Pats decided to "go big" and put Solder and Vollmer at tackle with Cannon and Warford as their long term guard combo, that would be a pretty brutal l4/5 of a line.

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot · 10-31-2012, 02:14 PM

How do you Cooper fans compare him to Warmack?

I haven't done much OG research yet, but I'd love your opinions.

mackenzie45220 · 10-31-2012, 02:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

How do you Cooper fans compare him to Warmack?

I haven't done much OG research yet, but I'd love your opinions.

Warmack is as good a guard you will ever see. Cooper achieves levels of domination close to that of Warmack, but Warmack is obviously doing it in the SEC, which is a major bonus.

ATippett56 · 10-31-2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

Warford is a damn good guard. The biggest question to my mind is whether he's more of a "road grader" than what the Pats usually want at guard. With that in mind, if the Pats decided to "go big" and put Solder and Vollmer at tackle with Cannon and Warford as their long term guard combo, that would be a pretty brutal l4/5 of a line.

I'm not completely sold on Marcus Cannon as a long term prospect.