Yes, BB is unique in working the draft. - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard
Men's Apparel Jerseys Hats Novelties Throwback Women's Youth
 
REGISTER FOR PATSFANS.COM

Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!


Go Back   New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard > PatsFans.com Forums > PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum > Patriots Draft Talk
Forgot Password? Join PatsFans.com!
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read Chat Room

WELCOME TO OUR FORUM HERE AT PATSFANS.COM!
ARE YOU NEW HERE? NOT LOGGED IN? PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AND LOGIN TO REMOVE THIS WINDOW

Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification window. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!

Like Tree40Likes

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2011, 10:01 AM   #1
Moderatrix
 
patchick's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 10,320
Default Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

OK, we all know that you can "manufacture" draft value over the long term by trading into the future. We also know that BB is the leading practitioner of this little art. But I was surprised to discover that he's the ONLY practitioner of it.

I just reviewed the past three drafts, looking for every major transfer of value from a current to future draft. Here's the full list of trades involving a day 1 or 2 pick where the clear majority of the compensation was in future picks:

2009
Seattle #37 Denver's 2010 1st
San Francisco #43 + #11 for Carolina's 2010 1st
New England #73 for Jax 2009 7th + 2010 2nd
New England #89 for Tennessee 2010 2nd

2010
New England #89 for Carolina 2011 2nd

2011
New England #28 for New Orleans #56 + 2012 1st
New England #92 + #125 for Oakland #219 + 2012 2nd

That's 5 out of 7 for Belichick, and every single example for the past 2 years. IOW, nobody else does this at all. Even trade-happy Philadelphia makes most of its hay trading players for picks, or smaller deals like a high 4th this year for a low 4th this year + next year's 4th. Only BB runs a high-pick assembly line.

(BTW all of that trading away does't mean that the Patriots "don't use their picks." In fact, they drafted an incredible 16 players in the top 3 rounds over that period.)
patchick is offline  
FEATURED ADVERTISEMENT
DONATE TO PATSFANS.COM
RECEIVE A FREE PATS T-SHIRT AND SAVE 15% OFF WHEN YOU BUY FROM THE OFFICIAL PROSHOP!

Free T-Shirt & Save 15% Off!
Like Our Site? Please help support our site and server costs by DONATING TO PATSFANS.COM and receive a FREE PATRIOTS T-SHIRT and SAVE 15% off EVERY purchase you make from PatriotsProShop.com. You'll also receive added benefits to your account
including Removing All Ads During Your Experience Here At Our Forum.

NEEDED YEARLY SITE DONATIONS: 345 | CURRENT # OF SUBSCRIBED SUPPORTERS: 98

Updated 07/08/11

Help Us Reach Our Goal!

Old 05-19-2011, 10:19 AM   #2
In the Starting Line-up
 
Oswlek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,389
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

BB has found an arbitrage and is working the hell out of it.

The consensus is that a pick tomorrow is worth a round less than a pick today, with it being analogous to currency inflation.

But that analogy is flawed. Since the year lost is subsequently gained on the backend of the rookie contract, the purchasing power remains the same. All that is sacrificed is the potential quality of this year's squad, which is a tough pill to swallow for someone trying to prove their worth to ownership and fans.

As long as you have the job security to view the 2014 Patriots as important as the 2011 Patriots it is like free currency.
__________________
"They have one objective," said Washington cornerback Shawn Springs. "They whoop people's [backsides]. If you understand that, it answers all your questions. They might not lose [this year]."
Oswlek is offline  
Old 05-19-2011, 10:20 AM   #3
In the Starting Line-up
 
Oswlek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,389
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

This one confuses me:

Quote:
San Francisco #43 + #11 for Carolina's 2010 1st
When was San Francisco in posession of Carolina's 2010 1st rounder?
__________________
"They have one objective," said Washington cornerback Shawn Springs. "They whoop people's [backsides]. If you understand that, it answers all your questions. They might not lose [this year]."
Oswlek is offline  
Old 05-19-2011, 10:40 AM   #4
Moderatrix
 
patchick's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 10,320
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswlek View Post
This one confuses me:



When was San Francisco in posession of Carolina's 2010 1st rounder?
SF drafted Mike Iupati #17 overall with Carolina's 2010 1st.
patchick is offline  
Old 05-19-2011, 10:44 AM   #5
In the Starting Line-up
 
Oswlek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,389
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patchick View Post
SF drafted Mike Iupati #17 overall with Carolina's 2010 1st.
Oops, confusing years in my head...
__________________
"They have one objective," said Washington cornerback Shawn Springs. "They whoop people's [backsides]. If you understand that, it answers all your questions. They might not lose [this year]."
Oswlek is offline  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:03 AM   #6
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 553
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patchick View Post
(BTW all of that trading away does't mean that the Patriots "don't use their picks." In fact, they drafted an incredible 16 players in the top 3 rounds over that period.)
People really underestimate this fact.

Like every team, the Pats have question marks at multiple position.

However, most teams have to rely on late draft picks, cheap free agents, and the like as their solution to many of their question marks. The Pats' solution to many of their question marks is a young player drafted in the first three rounds.

For example, the Pats and Jets both have uncertainity at the third wideout spot next year. The Pats probably go with either Tate or Price as their third receiver, while the Jets (assuming they are only able to keep one of Edwards or Holmes and lose Brad Smith) are going to rely on Cotch at number two and either Kerley (a fifth round pick), Turner (a waiver wire guy) or some as yet unsigned cheap veteran. Now Kerley or the cheap vet, either of whom is new to the Jets, could obviously be better than Tate or Price but my money is on the third round pick with system experience instead of the fifth round pick without it.
MaineMan likes this.
Shelterdog is online now  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:08 AM   #7
Moderatrix
 
patchick's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 10,320
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelterdog View Post
The Pats' solution to many of their question marks is a young player drafted in the first three rounds.
A little corollary to this is that it's much easier for Pats' fans to name 2nd & 3rd round busts than most fans. The Pats give them twice as many opportunities.
convertedpatsfan and mrscruff like this.
patchick is offline  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:32 AM   #8
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 553
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patchick View Post
A little corollary to this is that it's much easier for Pats' fans to name 2nd & 3rd round busts than most fans. The Pats give them twice as many opportunities.
Yup. Of course fans really overestimate how good the average second or third round draft pick ends up being. They think that every second and third round pick should be good when in fact maybe half of second round picks and a third of third round picks are.

Butler and Brace are seen as big busts, and they're not particularly good NFL players at this point but if you look at the 11 guys drafted between right after them (J. Byrd, Everette Brown, Pat White, Clint Sintim, Connor Barwin, M.Mitchell in Oakland, Darcel McBath, Max Unger, Massaquoi, Levitre, Veikune) you've got two guys who are out of football (Veikune and White), four decent starters (Byrd, Unger, Levitre and Massaquoi) and five guys who haven't consistently cracked the starting lineup on crappy teams.
Shelterdog is online now  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:41 AM   #9
PatsFans.com Supporter
 
ctpatsfan77's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Posts: 17,567
My Mood: Grumpy
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelterdog View Post
Yup. Of course fans really overestimate how good the average second or third round draft pick ends up being. They think that every second and third round pick should be good when in fact maybe half of second round picks and a third of third round picks are.

Butler and Brace are seen as big busts, and they're not particularly good NFL players at this point but if you look at the 11 guys drafted between right after them (J. Byrd, Everette Brown, Pat White, Clint Sintim, Connor Barwin, M.Mitchell in Oakland, Darcel McBath, Max Unger, Massaquoi, Levitre, Veikune) you've got two guys who are out of football (Veikune and White), four decent starters (Byrd, Unger, Levitre and Massaquoi), four guys who haven't consistently cracked the starting lineup on crappy teams, and one who needs to come to New England to bring out his inner Patriot.
Fixed that for you.
__________________
"Momentum was quickly snatched away by New England, who once again proved that any Patriot, at any moment, can make a play." —Inside the NFL, Packers v. Patriots

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ctpatsfan77 is online now  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:51 AM   #10
Second Team and Threatening Starter's Job
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,141
Blog Entries: 4
Default Re: Yes, BB is unique in working the draft.

General Managers and Head Coaches fall in love with players during the draft process. The Falcons fell hard for Julio Jones, Carolina fell in love with Everette Brown, Denver with Tim Tebow and the list goes on. Often times, it seems that these teams believe that they are one player away from reaching their goals, albeit a winning season, the playoffs or Super Bowl. Other times, a player is so good that a team believes the reward is worth the risk like Brady Quinn, Joe Staley or Michael Oher.

Rarely have I got the opinion that Belichick falls in love with prospects prior to the draft, with exception of Darius Butler. I suppose an argument can be made that whenever he doesn't trade a pick, he fell in love with the player they selected (e.g. Ras-I Dowling). But overall, he doesn't get irrational about his picks and looks to gain value, whereby building value and diversifying his portfolio in a way.

When the Patriots traded their first round pick to the Ravens, it wasn't because Belichick didn't have Michael Oher on his board. Oher was certainly on the board, but with the additional picks in the second and third round, Belichick figured he could still get a solid Offensive Tackle (in Volmer) plus Butler, Chung, Brace and Tate. Whereby the Ravens have their money on one player, the Patriots were able to spread the risk.
__________________
"It's not whether you get knocked down; it's whether you get up."Vince Lombardi


Pats fan since 1993
TealSox is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Sponsored Links



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is our offense unique in style? shakadave PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 2 01-22-2006 06:12 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

© Copyright 2000-2012. PatsFans.com Is a Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties.
The opinions posted in this forum do not necessarily reflect the opinions of our staff at PatsFans.com or USA Today.
We are not affiliated with the New England Patriots™ or the NFL™. The Photo Used In the header was taken by Ian Logue.

This site is owned and operated by I&K Internet Design Enterprises, LLC


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563