The 2011 Draft ~ Random Observations - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

Off The Grid · 05-07-2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

Off The Grid, very happy to see you back, with your usual brand of wordsmithing and eternal enthusiasm. Though we certainly disagreed in your draft day thread, let it be known that I took exception to your draft day stance because of your esteem as a poster of intelligence, whose opinion I enjoy reading. I'm glad to see you back at it, and I share many of your concerns, but I share your enthusiasm. Go Pats! This team is going to be very good, and a few free agents---Kiwanuka and Lawson top my list---could go a long way to making things dominant on the defensive side of the ball.

Thank you, Brother Rock!! I enjoy your fine and intelligent work, as well!!

Yes, it's been 7 delightfull, delicious days, and it seems as if it's been a month!!

Obviously, we're entering a quiet part of the FootBall Year, particularly with the Celts and Bruins fighting glorious Campaigns, and the Sox ramping up...

But my vacation from The Draft is over!! Loved the vacay, and I love getting back AT it!!

***mgteich*** · 05-08-2011, 12:09 AM

The discussion and perhaps disagreement is about the #7 player if Wright is not able to play. I agree that we have plenty of backup nose tackles likely to be as good as Love.

That being said, I still have Love higher on my depth chart than Weston or Richard. You choose Weston.
============================
SIX SEEM SET
Starters: Warren, Wilfork, Stroud
Backups: Brace, Pryor, Deaderick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Off The Grid

Hi, Kyle.

Your assumption that I forgot him is wrong.

I didn't forget about Kyle Love: I almost put him in, in fact, but just didn't see the purpose in listing every last fringe player: I was targeting guys who I think will probably make the roster. I consider him a borderline roster player, who'll probably need someone else to screw up or get hurt to make the roster...Even so, he's a good young player who might have a future, here.

Off The Grid · 05-08-2011, 12:22 AM

Nope.

He said, himself, that he thought it looked like an account of the roster, which it was not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgteich

The discussion and perhaps disagreement is about the #7 player if Wright is not able to play.

***convertedpatsfan*** · 05-08-2011, 09:07 AM

The DL, I can live with not drafting someone. None of the elite guys were available or too expensive to trade up for. The one within range might have been Fairley, but there were character concerns. The guys at the back sounded a lot like what we already have, bulky guys who can stop the run but not much in terms of pass rush, so they didn't seem like huge upgrades over Brace or Deaderick.

The OLB thing concerns me. I think our OLB will be better this year anyways simply because of experience. Cunningham was a rookie who showed a lot of potential. People will point to the single sack, but OLB is about more than sacks, and he did a very solid all-around job.

And Ninko really only has 2 years of experience, with last season being his first as a part-time starter. But I don't see him as a long-term answer. I'd love to see another high draft pick competing to take over, with Ninko turning into more of a role player.

patfanken · 05-08-2011, 12:50 PM

Excellent evaluations and I could spend a long time pointing out areas of agreement, but you don't need people patting you on the back for obvious reasons.

1. Autrocious was my intial reaction to picking Mallet. I was really against picking any QB before round 7. BUT the more I think on it the more I am warming up to it for the following reasons.

a. On a pure talent/value basis it might have been the easiest pick BB had all night.

b. I think, although he isn't going to effect the team in any way on the field for the next 2 years, the long term flexibility of the pick could make it worth it for a couple of reasons.

c. Mallet wound up in the absolute best situation he could have. He has the luxury of learning from a coaching staff that made NFL QBs out of the likes of Matt Cassell and Bryan Hoyer. Plus he has the advantage of sitting for a couple of years without the pressure of carrying a team. PLUS when he does get a chance to play it will be on for a team with very good offense around him.

d. NOW the Pats have a legitimate franchise QB talent without having to spend the draft capitol one normally associates with the acquisition of getting one.

e. When he came in for his visit, clearly BB didn't see the entitled, surly, uncooperative personality that was reported about endlessly this off season. So on the "character" issue I have to side with BB's assessment. He doesn't suffer fools.

f. Now if Brady decides he wants to end his career on the westcoast as the face of the new LA franchise, the Pats will be the position to replace him and accept the boatload of picks that kind of trade would engender, knowing they had an acceptable replacement ready.

g. The Pats can trade him at anytime over the next 4 years, for anything from a 3rd to a first and get some value from the deal.

h. And for the first time the Pats have a better alternative if lightning DOES strike twice and Brady gets hurt.

I'm not really knowledgeable about who was available when the Pats did pick Mallet, but Im doubting that it would have been a player who would have been any more likely to impact the near future of the Pats any more than Mallet

2. I think you contradict yourself on the issue of the lack of a DE pick in the draft. First you complain about it, and then you list the skill and depth that the Pats already have at the positiion.. Despite not picking a DE the Pats will have the deepest, and most talented DL line up they've had for the last 3 years. One that should excell at stopping the run and be better (how could they not be) at rushing the passer

I think you underestimate the return of a healthy Ty Warren, since we haven't really seen him be healthy for the last 3 seasons. I'm also taking the right to infer that one of the reasons BB didn't draft a DE because he feels Mike Wright IS going to be healthy this season. And he was a guy to had 5.5 sacks in 7 games, which BTW is pretty good, and goes widely unreported or appreciated.

Looking back at it, BB MIGHT have taken Watt if he were available, but the more I think about it, the odds are he was targetting Solder all along and got the guy he wanted.

Speaking of Solder I'm surprised at all the talk about his supposed lack of strength, and how he won't be a great run blocker. Guys he's 20 pounds heavier than Light RIGHT now, AND has much quicker feet. How does that NOT translate into a more powerful run blocker. And that is NOW, how much better will it be when he's 335 with under 10% body fat in a couple of years

This will go down as one of BB's best picks ever and its easy to trust BB when you consider his past picks on the OL

3.On the OLB we agree. I think Cunningham had a very remarkable rookie season, especially when you consider, as you said, the difficulty of playing the position, and the fact he missed most of training camp. Regardless of the results, he definitely showed some exciting flashes of the skills we all hope for in a OLB, and because he got all those snaps, his progression was accellerated vastly. Although I doubt you will see a finished product this season, but it WILL be greatly improved.

I also agree that Ninko is being unjustly downgraded. While he has been in the league 6 years, his functional playing time has been really limited. I thought he did a really good job given the low expectations we had. He showed some surprising coverage abilities, and riushed the passer actually better than I expected . Don't forget that Vrabel had more years with 4 or 5 sacks than he did with 12. Its the nature of the system

Add TBC as a situational rusher (although an over paid one), and the surprising Moore, OLB, while still a weakness, isn't really the black hole some represent it to be.

Of course all that being said, adding a Kiwanuka or Lawson wouldn't hurt.

4. I'm coming to grips with getting TWO RBs that early. Clearly BB is gearing up the Rats to become able to produce a "clock killin' " aspect to their offense. I also love the comparisons of Vereen to Ray Rice. I hope they are true.

5. I love the Smith pick too. Adding a guy with THAT particular skill set is critical to the overall effectiveness of the TE position. I believe the Pats are looking for 3 skill sets. One elite bocker (check) One elite move TE ie Dallas Clark type (check) One all round guy (double check) Although it might be a year too soon for him, better a year too soon than not at all. This is probably Alge's last season, so who better to mentor another critical factor to the Pats offense. His special teams skills will offset the burden of carrying 4 TEs on the roster.

Its ikind of funny how one's intial reaction to a pick can change when you actually find out about the individual's specific skill set and how it fits into the greater team profile. So your reaction can go from "Why another TE

, to....."cool pick, I get it now" Also another reason to be glad that "WE" aren't doing the picking.

BTW- thanks for the read, you know that I always appreciate a post that takes two posts to get on the board.

Off The Grid · 05-08-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by convertedpatsfan

The DL, I can live with not drafting someone. None of the elite guys were available or too expensive to trade up for. The one within range might have been Fairley, but there were character concerns. The guys at the back sounded a lot like what we already have, bulky guys who can stop the run but not much in terms of pass rush, so they didn't seem like huge upgrades over Brace or Deaderick.

Makes sense. I was praying for us to draft Justin Watt or Kenrick Ellis ~ or both. I would've preferred for us to add that enormous influx of talent and push Deaderick and somebody else off the bottom of the depth chart. But given that we didn't make either move, I, too, saw absolutely nobody who's skill set wouldn't've been redundant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by convertedpatsfan

The OLB thing concerns me. I think our OLB will be better this year anyways simply because of experience. Cunningham was a rookie who showed a lot of potential. People will point to the single sack, but OLB is about more than sacks, and he did a very solid all-around job.

And Ninko really only has 2 years of experience, with last season being his first as a part-time starter. But I don't see him as a long-term answer. I'd love to see another high draft pick competing to take over, with Ninko turning into more of a role player.

I'm from the same school of thought.

Depth of Talent is something that is blithely ignored by most fans in here, but there's absolutely no reason why we can't go 4 deep at Flanker and Defensive End, and make similar moves to develop a continuous stream of deep talent at all positions: We clearly have the wherewithal to do so, as I highlighted in my radical but ultimately logical Mock Draft.

I think Rob Ninkovich will do a damned fine job, this year, and surprise one hell of a lot of people.

But I'd much rather see him as the 3rd or even 4th Flanker on the Depth Chart, much as I'd rather see Ty Warren and Marcus Stroud as the 3rd and 4th Defensive Ends ~ after the youngster would've broken in ~ and have young, cheap, and talented back ups for Danny WoodHead and Shane Vereen...and everybody else.

BritPat · 05-08-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflexblue

I started looking at next years prospects at OLB and DE, and suddenly thought why bother, none of them will fit the scheme.

It's not that, I think it's the fact that Bill simply doesn't think OLB is worth the effort of a first round pick. There were some tremendous fits this year - Smith and Quinn were everything we value and more - but BB obviously is not a believer in the position being worth first round value.

Which is a huge shame.

I look at Quinton Coples next year and have a hard on already - but we'll never draft him.

jsull87 · 05-08-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritPat

It's not that, I think it's the fact that Bill simply doesn't think OLB is worth the effort of a first round pick. There were some tremendous fits this year - Smith and Quinn were everything we value and more - but BB obviously is not a believer in the position being worth first round value.

Which is a huge shame.

I look at Quinton Coples next year and have a hard on already - but we'll never draft him.

Smith and Quinn were good talents... that went 5 and 9 spots ahead of our pick... maybe they would have been the top rated players on our board. But i see no reason to be crying over them when they went so far ahead of our pick. Are you suggesting you would have liked us to trade up and get them at 8 or 12? If so then you would have to weigh up Quinn/smith vs Solder and what we would have to give up for the trade. (Ras-I? Vereen? the ability to get Oaklands 2nd?)

ROHAN KLEMM · 05-08-2011, 06:48 PM

just wanted to throw in my two cents on the pats draft.

In spite of all i've read about schemes, fits, kool-aid etc, here is the picks i would have liked.

#1 cameron jordan - i can live with solder (left tackle and other teams supposedly salivating to draft), but i preferred dline help. (if solder and volmmer switch uniforms will we know it?)

#1a mark ingram - although if jordan gone saints most likely take him at 24 in that case trade down (cincy) or cb smith or carimi. Ingram is perfect patriot back. No need to draft two backs) besides woodhead is like a wes welker in the backfield.

#2a brooks reed - edge rusher - if no ingram williams from va tech

#2b leonard hankerson - we need a receiver with size who can get open. (i also liked donte moche)

#3a i can live with mallet - worth a shot. If not mallet - rackley lehigh or trade.

#3b quinton carter db - boling or sam acho

cannon was a great calculated gamble in the 5th round.

Of course 1 pick effects the rest of the draft and it is a lot easier knowing where everybody went.

I thought the draft fell the pats way and they missed the opportunities to upgrade weak spots and also trade for next year. I was disapointed with the draft last year - prove wrong and i hope i'm wrong again this year.

I think we have been getting away with lesser talent at wr, rb and d-line/edge rush and could have shored up those areas and also helped our o-line. This year i thought need and value was there.

A couple more general draft observations - i did not think baldwin was a first round player. From oklahoma - demarco murray went too late and what happened to jeremy beal - early on i saw him mentioned as solid 2nd rounder. Prince akumurah let receivers get on top of him in the clips i saw and had to illegally chuck often. Fairley is a gamble but detroit was a great spot for him to land. Cincy had a good draft but should have traded 4th spot to atlanta instead of cleveland - if the offer was there. Buffalo had good draft, playing catch up for previous years.

One thing i can count on every year - the pats picks are always a suprise.

rookBoston · 05-08-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Off The Grid

Hi, Kyle.

Your assumption that I forgot him is wrong.

I didn't forget about Kyle Love: I almost put him in, in fact, but just didn't see the purpose in listing every last fringe player: I was targeting guys who I think will probably make the roster. I consider him a borderline roster player, who'll probably need someone else to screw up or get hurt to make the roster...Even so, he's a good young player who might have a future, here.

Well, in the end this is the reason BB probably passed on taking a 5-technique DE. He's literally got 12 of them already!! With all the guys returning from IR, and young players entering their 2nd and 3rd years, he's got a deep roster already. If a guy like Kyle Love, who played pretty well in spots, is unlikely to make the roster, then adding even more rookies is not going to help.

I'm really not as bent out of shape about failing to draft an outside pass rusher as many others. We have youth at OLB already, and plenty of "potential". I could agree, if the feeling is that we need to add disruptive, top-end talent at the OLB position. But that said, I certainly didn't see it our guy in the draft class.

I think we got good value and good talent in the draft. I also don't think BB had quite finished assembling his 2011 roster. We could play with the team we have right now and be very competitive. But, this team is young and the addition of a key free agent, like Alge Crumpler last year, is not out of the question. BB always likes to bring a few vets into camp, but the lockout has gotten in the way.