OLBs from #28 on? - New England Patriots Forums

***patchick*** · 03-06-2011, 12:09 PM

Let's assume that DaQuan Bowers, Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan -- whatever you may think of them -- are all off the board at pick 28, and the Patriots are still in the market for an outside pass rusher. I'm curious who you all see as the next tiers.

Some possibilities I see are below, in descending order with my own subjective grades. Don't be shy chiming in. ;-)

Brooks Reed: The more I see, the more I like. Showed off explosion with a great 10-yd split at the Combine, moved better than I expected in space, and looks as tenacious in drills as on the field. Great effort and leadership guy. A mini Kerrigan. (My grade: high 2nd.)

Justin Houston: A pleasant surprise at the Combine with his size/speed combo, but in drills showed he can only move forward. Explosive pass rusher, but not a huge repetoire of moves. (My grade: mid-2nd.)

Jabaal Sheard: Powerful, hustling pass-rusher who's solid against the run. Good effort/intensity, questionable agility. Doesn't always play in control. (My grade: late 2nd.)

Sam Acho: Shorter player with nifty quickness and agility and good motor, but not the most explosive/powerful pass rusher. (My grade: high 3rd.)

Greg Romeus: Potential to be special as an elephant type; potential to not play a down in the NFL. Shouldn't be the only player drafted at the position. (My grade: 4th.)

Akeem Ayers: An interesting athlete who isn't instinctive or powerful enough to match his reputation. (My grade: 4th.)

Jeremy Beal: I can't ignore the utter disaster of a post-season Beal has had. His measurables are weak, too. Yet he's smart, hard-working player who did too much on the field for 4 seasons to write off altogether. (My grade: 5th.)

D'Aundre Reed: Caught my eye at the Combine -- had a good-sized frame and looked impressively agile and athletic, if unpolished, running LB drills. D. Reed was the 3rd DE in a rotation at Arizona headed by Brooks Reed and Ricky Elmore, and was reportedly the best run stopper of the group. I went back and looked for him in pass-rushing highlights of the the other 2, and liked what I saw. (My grade: 6th.)

***sbpatfan*** · 03-06-2011, 12:12 PM

I like Chris Carter but I'm in the minority with that one.

DW Toys · 03-06-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchick

Let's assume that DaQuan Bowers, Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan -- whatever you may think of them -- are all off the board at pick 28, and the Patriots are still in the market for an outside pass rusher. I'm curious who you all see as the next tiers.

Some possibilities I see are below, in descending order with my own subjective grades. Don't be shy chiming in. ;-)

Brooks Reed: The more I see, the more I like. Showed off explosion with a great 10-yd split at the Combine, moved better than I expected in space, and looks as tenacious in drills as on the field. Great effort and leadership guy. A mini Kerrigan. (My grade: high 2nd.)

Justin Houston: A pleasant surprise at the Combine with his size/speed combo, but in drills showed he can only move forward. Explosive pass rusher, but not a huge repetoire of moves. (My grade: mid-2nd.)

Jabaal Sheard: Powerful, hustling pass-rusher who's solid against the run. Good effort/intensity, questionable agility. Doesn't always play in control. (My grade: late 2nd.)

Sam Acho: Shorter player with nifty quickness and agility and good motor, but not the most explosive/powerful pass rusher. (My grade: high 3rd.)

Greg Romeus: Potential to be special as an elephant type; potential to not play a down in the NFL. Shouldn't be the only player drafted at the position. (My grade: 4th.)

Akeem Ayers: An interesting athlete who isn't instinctive or powerful enough to match his reputation. (My grade: 4th.)

Jeremy Beal: I can't ignore the utter disaster of a post-season Beal has had. His measurables are weak, too. Yet he's smart, hard-working player who did too much on the field for 4 seasons to write off altogether. (My grade: 5th.)

D'Aundre Reed: Caught my eye at the Combine -- had a good-sized frame and looked impressively agile and athletic, if unpolished, running LB drills. D. Reed was the 3rd DE in a rotation at Arizona headed by Brooks Reed and Ricky Elmore, and was reportedly the best run stopper of the group. I went back and looked for him in pass-rushing highlights of the the other 2, and liked what I saw. (My grade: 6th.)

Superb post.
I am in the Reed camp as well. Can't see why Ayers has a first round value. Beal is one of those "He really rots at combine stuff, but he'll win you a game or two a year". Beal might be worth a gamble.

I am starting to invest more in the kid from Fresno, but the absolute sleeper can be Greg Romeus who has a bad disc and the an ACL last year. He has been o.k.d by four separate doctors and is ready to go. I am sure he has to have the ACL in his head, but this kid could be the steal that Hernandez was and had the same issues of Tate the year before and BB took a shot on both.

If he left after Pitt's 2009 season after his junior year, he might have been one of the first five players taken last April.At 6-7, 285 pounds, Big East Defensive Player of the Year in 2009.Has quick feet of a basketball player, size, quickness, strength, agility.As he has been in a rehabbing stage, Romeus is hence under the radar.
I'd say a third rating on him even though some say 5th.
DW Toys

***DaBruinz*** · 03-06-2011, 01:20 PM

Hasn't Robert Quinn's stock been falling because of the poorer than expected Combine numbers? Or am I getting players mixed up?

MaineMan · 03-06-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DW Toys

Superb post.
I am in the Reed camp as well. Can't see why Ayers has a first round value. Beal is one of those "He really rots at combine stuff, but he'll win you a game or two a year". Beal might be worth a gamble.

I am starting to invest more in the kid from Fresno, but the absolute sleeper can be Greg Romeus who has a bad disc and the an ACL last year. He has been o.k.d by four separate doctors and is ready to go. I am sure he has to have the ACL in his head, but this kid could be the steal that Hernandez was and had the same issues of Tate the year before and BB took a shot on both.

If he left after Pitt's 2009 season after his junior year, he might have been one of the first five players taken last April.At 6-7, 285 pounds, Big East Defensive Player of the Year in 2009.Has quick feet of a basketball player, size, quickness, strength, agility.As he has been in a rehabbing stage, Romeus is hence under the radar.
I'd say a third rating on him even though some say 5th.
DW Toys

Romeus? I see him listed at 6'5"/265. At 6'7"/285, I'd have him put on another 10-15 lbs and play at 3-4DE.

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 03-06-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchick

Let's assume that DaQuan Bowers, Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan -- whatever you may think of them -- are all off the board at pick 28, and the Patriots are still in the market for an outside pass rusher. I'm curious who you all see as the next tiers.

Some possibilities I see are below, in descending order with my own subjective grades. Don't be shy chiming in. ;-)

Brooks Reed: The more I see, the more I like. Showed off explosion with a great 10-yd split at the Combine, moved better than I expected in space, and looks as tenacious in drills as on the field. Great effort and leadership guy. A mini Kerrigan. (My grade: high 2nd.)

Jabaal Sheard: Powerful, hustling pass-rusher who's solid against the run. Good effort/intensity, questionable agility. Doesn't always play in control. (My grade: late 2nd.) The questions I have are unlikely to be answered by draftniks, 3rd round.

Sam Acho: Shorter player with nifty quickness and agility and good motor, but not the most explosive/powerful pass rusher. (My grade: high 3rd.) What I saw in games does little to encourage me despite an impressively athletic Combine, 5th.

Greg Romeus: Potential to be special as an elephant type; potential to not play a down in the NFL. Shouldn't be the only player drafted at the position. (My grade: 4th.) I saw a rusty kid just before his knee went out, nothing to encourage me there, UDFA.

D'Aundre Reed: Caught my eye at the Combine -- had a good-sized frame and looked impressively agile and athletic, if unpolished, running LB drills. D. Reed was the 3rd DE in a rotation at Arizona headed by Brooks Reed and Ricky Elmore, and was reportedly the best run stopper of the group. I went back and looked for him in pass-rushing highlights of the the other 2, and liked what I saw. (My grade: 6th.) 4th round, I've seen him in rotation with Elmore and wondered why he wasn't ranked higher.

Pernell McPhee: I've seen him playing 4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB and DE, he can go either way as an OLB or DE, but take a few of lbs off him in the S&C program and his explosiveness and quickness will leap. Recognize he's a juco still catching up to technique and play recognition and he's a late 3rd who will probably be there in the 4th.

Brandon Bair: Like McPhee I've seen him playing all along the line in various 3-4 and 4-3 roles. He's got the quickest hands I've seen for knocking down a pass. He can also slim down and get stronger/quicker in the S&C program, and if there's one college DL who made me think of a 2001-2005 Big Willie, it's this kid. Don't expect big sack numbers, but do expect him to clog passing lanes, be stout against the run, and to collapse the pocket as a power rusher. If all else fails sign him to the PSquad for the season and bulk him into a reserve DE. 5th round.

Ryan Winterswyk: I loved this kid's game since he was a rFr. He's another who would need to slim down in the S&C program to help his explosiveness/quickness, but he's a very smart, all hustle kid who plays a complete game. 6th round.

Karl Klug: This kid has been playing DT because Iowa already had DEs they liked. When I watched an Iowa game the one DL teams planned to double-team was Klug; not Clayborn, not Ballard - Klug. He can take off 20 lbs to improve his explosiveness and open field agility and you have the best 3-4 LOLB candidate in this draft. He gives up 34 lbs to John Moffitt and their battle inside was better than most prize fights, the kid was a State level wrestler as well as LB and his use of leverage in the trenches reminds me of Stephen Neal. Play him at 255 and he'll set the edge and get after the passer, he'll need time to develop in coverage, he'll be a STs stud. This kid in the trash is a pigskin seeking missile, he finds the ball before it gets to the LOS and he makes plays on it in the backfield. 7th round.

Bruce Miller: Too short, arms too short ... he made everybody around him at UCF better. He hustled, he played inside, he played outside, he dropped into coverage occasionally, he finished his senior year as the active sack leader (I'm not sure if that was NCAA, but it was FBS). If he can't make it at OLB he might kick inside ala Bruschi, and he'll be an ace on Special Teams. 7th round.

Josh McNary: Typical military academy kid, undersized scrapper going toe-to-toe with the bigguns from Football Factory U and making them work for every inch and point like they were walk-ons trying to win a scholarship. He won praise at the Shrine game; "McNary's quick feet, balance and reliable open-field tackling stood out Saturday, perhaps proving that the former walk-on's career 49 tackles for loss and 28 sacks (both Army records) prove he's a rare service academy prospect worth keeping an eye on in the future. - Rob Rang, The Sports Xchange/NFLDraftScout.com." Undrafted Free Agent.

upstater1 · 03-06-2011, 01:57 PM

The Patriots can afford to gamble in the third on a player like Romeus.

Remember, 15 years ago, the Patriots gambled on another injured player out of Pitt, Curtis Martin. I wouldn't be at all against them going that route again.

MaineMan · 03-06-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box_O_Rocks

Pernell McPhee: I've seen him playing 4-3 DE, 3-4 OLB and DE, he can go either way as an OLB or DE, but take a few of lbs off him in the S&C program and his explosiveness and quickness will leap. Recognize he's a juco still catching up to technique and play recognition and he's a late 3rd who will probably be there in the 4th.

Brandon Bair: Like McPhee I've seen him playing all along the line in various 3-4 and 4-3 roles. He's got the quickest hands I've seen for knocking down a pass. He can also slim down and get stronger/quicker in the S&C program, and if there's one college DL who made me think of a 2001-2005 Big Willie, it's this kid. Don't expect big sack numbers, but do expect him to clog passing lanes, be stout against the run, and to collapse the pocket as a power rusher. If all else fails sign him to the PSquad for the season and bulk him into a reserve DE. 5th round.

Ryan Winterswyk: I loved this kid's game since he was a rFr. He's another who would need to slim down in the S&C program to help his explosiveness/quickness, but he's a very smart, all hustle kid who plays a complete game. 6th round.

Karl Klug: This kid has been playing DT because Iowa already had DEs they liked. When I watched an Iowa game the one DL teams planned to double-team was Klug; not Clayborn, not Ballard - Klug. He can take off 20 lbs to improve his explosiveness and open field agility and you have the best 3-4 LOLB candidate in this draft. He gives up 34 lbs to John Moffitt and their battle inside was better than most prize fights, the kid was a State level wrestler as well as LB and his use of leverage in the trenches reminds me of Stephen Neal. Play him at 255 and he'll set the edge and get after the passer, he'll need time to develop in coverage, he'll be a STs stud. This kid in the trash is a pigskin seeking missile, he finds the ball before it gets to the LOS and he makes plays on it in the backfield. 7th round.

Bruce Miller: Too short, arms too short ... he made everybody around him at UCF better. He hustled, he played inside, he played outside, he dropped into coverage occasionally, he finished his senior year as the active sack leader (I'm not sure if that was NCAA, but it was FBS). If he can't make it at OLB he might kick inside ala Bruschi, and he'll be an ace on Special Teams. 7th round.

Josh McNary: Typical military academy kid, undersized scrapper going toe-to-toe with the bigguns from Football Factory U and making them work for every inch and point like they were walk-ons trying to win a scholarship. He won praise at the Shrine game; "McNary's quick feet, balance and reliable open-field tackling stood out Saturday, perhaps proving that the former walk-on's career 49 tackles for loss and 28 sacks (both Army records) prove he's a rare service academy prospect worth keeping an eye on in the future. - Rob Rang, The Sports Xchange/NFLDraftScout.com." Undrafted Free Agent.

Seems to me you both have offered up a lot of reasons NOT to be overly concerned about taking an OLB in the first round.

kurtinelson · 03-06-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchick

Let's assume that DaQuan Bowers, Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan -- whatever you may think of them -- are all off the board at pick 28, and the Patriots are still in the market for an outside pass rusher. I'm curious who you all see as the next tiers.

Some possibilities I see are below, in descending order with my own subjective grades. Don't be shy chiming in. ;-)

Brooks Reed: The more I see, the more I like. Showed off explosion with a great 10-yd split at the Combine, moved better than I expected in space, and looks as tenacious in drills as on the field. Great effort and leadership guy. A mini Kerrigan. (My grade: high 2nd.)

Reed is my top choice at OLB behind A. Smith. I like Kerrigan as a 4-3 DE, but I'm not sure about his transition to OLB. Reed's got quickness, he's fluid in space and should be decent against the run and pass. He may not be as SATPOA as Kerrigan, but I think he's one of the most well-rounded 3-4 OLB candidates in the Draft . If the Patriots brain trust passes on an OLB in the first and passes on Reed in 2nd round, I will be an unhappy camper.

Justin Houston: A pleasant surprise at the Combine with his size/speed combo, but in drills showed he can only move forward. Explosive pass rusher, but not a huge repetoire of moves. (My grade: mid-2nd.)

I agree with your assessment of Houston, Patchick. He's got some physical tools (size and speed) and he knows how to get after the passer, but he's not as fluid as Reed. I think he could struggle in space. I believe Jays 52 commented that he does not appear to be the smartest cookie in the cookie jar based on interviews. Not sure what his football IQ is.

Jabaal Sheard: Powerful, hustling pass-rusher who's solid against the run. Good effort/intensity, questionable agility. Doesn't always play in control. (My grade: late 2nd.)

I don't know much of anything about this player.

Sam Acho: Shorter player with nifty quickness and agility and good motor, but not the most explosive/powerful pass rusher. (My grade: high 3rd.)

Acho had one of the best physiques IMO at the combine among the OLBs (so did Vernon Gholston) but I don't know much about his game.

Greg Romeus: Potential to be special as an elephant type; potential to not play a down in the NFL. Shouldn't be the only player drafted at the position. (My grade: 4th.)

Drafting Romeus would be like buying a lottery ticket. No guarantees.

Akeem Ayers: An interesting athlete who isn't instinctive or powerful enough to match his reputation. (My grade: 4th.)

I agree on your assessment. I'm still scratching my head that Mayock has him rated as a first round talent. He was a JAG as far as I could see in his highlight videos

Jeremy Beal: I can't ignore the utter disaster of a post-season Beal has had. His measurables are weak, too. Yet he's smart, hard-working player who did too much on the field for 4 seasons to write off altogether. (My grade: 5th.)

Not sure where or if Beal will be drafted. He was by far one of the least athletic OLBs at the combine. I think his ceiling is uber-low in the NFL.

D'Aundre Reed: Caught my eye at the Combine -- had a good-sized frame and looked impressively agile and athletic, if unpolished, running LB drills. D. Reed was the 3rd DE in a rotation at Arizona headed by Brooks Reed and Ricky Elmore, and was reportedly the best run stopper of the group. I went back and looked for him in pass-rushing highlights of the the other 2, and liked what I saw. (My grade: 6th.)

Good catch. I'll keep my eye on him

10 characters

Metaphors · 03-06-2011, 02:09 PM

Steven Friday (VA Tech) - Listed at 6'4", 250 but doesn't play as strong as that would suggest. He is very athletic and instinctual which makes him an absolute pest as a pass rusher. He is my middle round guy if the Pats don't load up earlier.

Ricky Elmore (Arizona, 6'5", 255) - Limited physically but an overachiever. Always finds a way to be productive but his ceiling may fall below the "playmaker" level. Ideal guy to take late and see if he can be a system guy and play above his limitations. His heralded teammate sucking all the oxygen out of the room may cause him to drop further than he should.

Thomas Keiser (Stanford) - Listed at 6'5", 257. He seems to show up on film even if you aren't exactly sure why. Another guy that seems too limited in strength and quickness to be a starting 3-4 OLB, but when you watch him it is hard to dismiss him entirely. Another late round guy that may be a diamond in the rough...or a golfball lost in the rough.