Box_O_Rocks

He is one of the options that has to be weighed at #23.

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bakes781

He's being talked about as possibly the #1 CB. At #23 I have to consider it and at #34 I'm racing to the podium.

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BelichickFan

I'm not ruling any position out. With three #2s we can fill needs there - if there's a great BPA I'd take him - CB, WR, RB, name your position.

mayoclinic

I'm not ruling any position out, but need is a big factor in my value board. Butler is much lower than he otherwise would be because of the relative need of the position.

Let's assume, as a pure prospect, that he would rate with Barwin, Beatty and Delmas (my personal favorites, but substitute your own if you prefer). Would he be a worthy pick at 23 or 34? Yes. Would he provide as much value as those guys? Probably not the way things stand right now. Definitely a month ago the answer would have been different. Possibly in a year the answer may change again. Would I consider him? Yes. But unless you really think that the top safety or OLB prospects are very close on the Pats board I don't see enough value to take Butler ahead of them, as things currently stand.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

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bakes781

Even considering the need I would definitely rate Darius Butler ahead of those guys and maybe even my boy Larry English! So if I know there's a good chance that one of them OLBs falls to #34 why not take the better player at #23?

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dryheat44

Value. Unless you believe Butler can come in and at the very least beat out three of Hobbs, Springs, Bodden, Wilhite, and Wheatley, his value to the Patriots is going to be less than the #23 pick. Let's face it...good cornerbacks aren't like good nose tackles. There will be other good corners available later, and there will be another two or three elite corners next year.

In other words, Butler doesn't fill a need, isn't a unique player (planet theory), and isn't a clear improvement over what we presently have on the roster. You could also make the argument that elite cornerbacks aren't as important in Belichick's defense, so that would also lower Butler's value.

Honestly, do we really know how well he can play corner? I have him rated in the 41-55 range.

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bakes781

I dunno when I was watching the "other good corners" run they all looked like safeties to me. I do believe he could beat out Springs, Wilhite, and Wheatley.

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Ungeheuer

1.I think Barwin will be there at 34 and Delmas will be there at 47. And I'd bet there will be a pretty good tackle at 58, someone like Meredith. I'd rather take a flier on the BPA at 23 and take care of your needs that way.

2. I don't know. I think we need an inside linebacker pretty high in this draft, especially for first and second down, since Bruschi is about done. And I'm not sure about the wisdom of moving AD inside eventually when even as a younger player he wasn't particularly good in there. I think we should snatch Maualuga if he's there at 23. If not him, maybe someone like Matthews or Cushing. Although they worked out that kid Jason Williams, he'd go later.

3. I agree. I think that's a pretty good trade. Much better value at 45 than 58, and there's no one we're desperate for at 23.

4. They'll never trade Seymour. Why would they? This is a Super Bowl contender and he's a key player, if not the key player, on the defense. Plus the cap savings would be negligible.

Good thoughts overall, though.

DW Toys

Mayo, Great stuff as usual. It makes you think.
O.K. I have a scenario based on the fact that N.O. has only three picks in this draft and are wanting to get more desperately. #14 is a good pick but they have nothing they positively need in that spot.
I think that the Pats and the Eagles have the most choices to trades as far as volume.We actually have perhaps too many picks and not enough roster spots unless the IR squad is huge...wink!

In my scenario it is a double move carefully orchestrated by BB. We trade our second round pick #34, our third round pick #89, our forth round pick #120, and our sixth #199 and seventh #234 (don't pass out yet cousins!) for the Saints #14 in round one. The numbers "points value" deal doesn't add up but the picks do, so it might make sense. Teams are not following that closely anymore. Why do we do this?

We could pick a stud there and still have a great draft (think of the picks?) or we now control the Sanchez/Freeman QB move. Detroit can't go for Stafford for the first pick (think Harrington). He's o.k. but not #1 material. They wait for #20 and hope the Jets and Bucs don't grab one or the other at #17 or #19. Or even the Bears at #18 or Vikings at #22 taking a QB makes sense.

I say the Lions are the best partner. Trade #14 to the Lions for #20 and their third rounder (almost like a second) #65.

Now the Lions get #1, #14, #33 and #82 (from Dallas) in the first hundred and get the best OT (or Curry) and pick their QB at #14.

The Pats now get #20,#23,#47.#58,#65,#97,#170,#207.

I have some new thoughts for picks here not everyone will like:

#20=Andre Smith OT-He slides and has the best natural talent. He gets a year or two to mature. The Saban connection. I am not a fan of an OL in the top two rounds (rather have Lang later on) but you have to consider Smith here.

#23=Percy Harvin WR-BPA (you choose then?)and he fills a return spot, #4 WR, #5 RB in the Reggie Bush mold. The Meyer connection. He backs up Galloway and Lewis he should beat out.

#47=Louis Delmas S -Might still be here. If not Sean Smith as a Safety who can play CB too, but the coverage by our Safety position will upgrade. He is 217lbs. Too early for Moore.

#58 Jarron Gilbert DT/DE-Depth for a DL that will change in 2010. Michael Johnson as my backup pick for 6' 7" OLB and 4.49 speed but I think we get Taylor or Peppers (Peppers we give up #23).

#65 James Casey TE-The TE depth chart will change in 2010. Remember how ticked BB was to lose Garret Mills? This guy is bigger and better and a "Wildcat" back (called Thor) with 46 carries at Rice, 6 TDs and a 4.6 average. Scheduled to be the Rice starting QB if he does not declare.

#97 Paul Kruger ILB-Versatilty to play DE but a perfect ILB choice to get some time while Teddy is still here. 260 LBS, Decent speed, can drop back. Good sack moves. Better upside then Rey or "Little Animal"? Back up pick is Jasper Brinkley ILB. Very much under the radar. Thumper with great speed. Recovered full now from ACL. Came on at the end of the season. Played at 262lbs.

#170 Deven Moore RB-Grooming for the Faulk job. Great hands. Can take some carries ala Steve Slaton. Back up pick Johnny Knox, WR speed merchant. Coming on.

#210 Lonnie Harvey NT-A back up for Vince. The Pats have taken interest in this kid. He is 6'3" and 346 lbs. He can move. Has some sacks and blocked kicks. He does not look or perform like a lump. A small school project but very high football I.Q. Why not?

DW Toys

mayoclinic

That's the difference between us. You see English as a nice player but drop him like a hot potato for Butler, when we don't even have a need at CB. I put Connor Barwin as my favorite 3-4 OLB prospect since 2005 and would take him over Butler and English together. (That's pushing it, but I'm trying to make a point here.)

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi